Tomytec Moving Bus System 2.0 (2023)

[brill27mcb]

Lately I have been studying developments in both the Tomytec Moving Bus System and the Kato Unitram world. Both product lines have been on "pause" recently, but we now have some tea leaves to read to see what the next developments will be. So I am calling this Version 2.0 of the Moving Bus System. Version 1 began in March, 2011.

 

The Hobby Search listing for the just-released Moving Bus System Set A3 Toyota SORA (Tokyo Toei Bus Version) was just updated in recent days. This set contains the first appearance of the "second generation" bus power chassis, the BM-04. The BM-04 uses just one replaceable "button" battery instead of two (and it's not the non-replaceable battery of the Citaro-style and U.S. GM-style chassis, either, which have to be kept in a charged state). The new chassis lacks the alternating full speed / reduced speed feature of the earlier chassis, so the bus now jumps from stopped to full speed, and vice-versa, without an intermediate transition speed. Also gone is the automatic stop/depart feature at the bus stop. A positive change is that you can insert or remove a battery without having to take the chassis out of the bus body.

 

The recent Hobby Search listing update on 14 Feb 2023 adds notes that the X-002 intersections (crossroads), X-003 intersection expansion set A (T-junctions and multi-lane roads), S-003 stop/departure road S74-R0-ST, and C-001 C66-30-R0 66mm radius curved road sections are not supported by the new chassis. Also mentioned is that bringing magnets or other magnetic objects close to the running bus may cause a malfunction.

 

Looking at the announced forthcoming releases (after a long pause in availability), the C-001 is not listed. C-002 through C-005 (103mm to 214mm radius curved road pieces) are listed, but with an -02 suffix. This appears to indicate just a repackaging, not a design change. I think all of the non-66mm radius "old" straight and curved road pieces should be compatible with the new chassis.

 

The intersection pieces are not indicated. To me, this does not mean that the new chassis can not handle making a direction choice at an intersection; it simply can not handle the 66mm radius built into the original intersection design. When running the older buses in our club, we often had buses go off the road when the inside rear wheels fell off the inside edge of the 66mm curve. Apparently this radius was just a little too tight, and Tomytec has now abandoned it, both in curved road pieces and the existing intersection design. Unless a new intersection design comes in the future, the Moving Bus System will be a pretty limited, "accessory" sort of product in terms of what is possible in terms of layouts and interesting operations.

 

The video released today and posted today by bill937ca in the "Tomytec - Painted & Anything Model Bus Related" thread shows enough details to make me believe that the old BS-001 bus stops will work if you simply leave off the small cylindrical magnet part. The announced new version BS-002 of the bus stop, which is included in the new set, appears to be the same, with the mounting place for the magnet left empty.

 

Rich K.

Edited March 20, 2023 by brill27mcb

[bill937ca]

Just to make it easier here is the video I posted earlier today.

 

 

[bill937ca]

"Tomytec new product Don't stop at the bus stop! Bus Collection Running System A3 Does the bus stop and power unit not match? Toyota SORA makes me want to cry."

 

But this was known from the original version 2 listing on Hobby Search.

 

Video by Model train sttysov show trend

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by bill937ca

[Wolf]

Well I dunnow about the "old" Bus system, but I have 2 of the new Tomytec Moving Bus System Basic Set A3 (Toyota SORA) received just monday, and took a ton of pictures I planned to put in a separate thread, but seems to me they might be better of here. I have never had the old one, so I cant do any comparsions sadly.

First of tho, I dont really understand what this video is about tbh, but I know a lot of people discuss this:
 

I have two of the new BM-010 Units (at least BM-010 is written at their bottom, nowhere is stated BM-04, but I assume thats just their way to prevent base set resales?) out of the new set, and both stop at both stops when indicated "stop". So I assume he either does use a part from the "old" system, or has a faulty unit. It works perfectly fine for me.

The Sysem runs on a guide wire, with a small magnet guiding the wheels in the right direction. The BM-010 Unit as it was known before just know "stop" and go. The Power Switch is simply turning the battery compartment and "breaking" the connection. Works, and one switch less to break I guess. The most nifty "new" thing is obviously the variable Size of the BM-010 Unit, making it fit for several busses. I tried with the only other Bus I own, and it worked.

A word of advice here, make really sure your front wheels can turn properly when adjusting size. I had a few occasions where the bus left the road (wheels didnt turn) and all of them where in the end the fault of the wheel getting "stuck" on the cassis. Small adjustments to the motor units size solved these problems.

Battery switch is easy done by just removing one screw, and removing the battery compartment wich, as mentioned earlier, doubles as the on/off switch.

The Base set comes with 2 half circles worth of curves in two different radii, wich makes it possible to combine two base sets to create a two directional circle.

All in all I am very happy I got this, I really hope Tomitec comes up with new Intersections in the future. ^^

Cheers

Wolf

Attached tons of pictures:

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Wolf
added 2 pictures

[brill27mcb]

Thanks for posting all of the photos! They are very helpful.

 

My original reaction to the person complaining in the videos about the bus not stopping at the bus stop was "If this is really user error, how embarrassing!" However, the videos are instructive. They show how moving the magnet sideways just a short distance is enough to make the stopping function work or not. If you study the underside of the Bus Stop and also the Stop Road Section S74-RO-ST (which I have been doing) you will see that the "stop" position on the Bus Stop moves the magnet to the left of the bus, while on the Stop Road Section it moves it off to the right. Nothing like being consistent! The "stop" actuating position is under the right side of the bus, and in your last photo (the power chassis underside) you can see a metal wire along that edge of the chassis, which may be part of its stopping function.

 

I care about both types of stop roadway because running more than one bus at a time depends on being able to stop them, as needed, to keep them spaced safely apart. I come from a model trolley club background, where we commonly run many vehicles from a single power pack. We do that by using on/off blocks to be able to stop the faster ones from time to time, to keep them all spaced out evenly. I use the same tactic in my EasyTrolley/EasyTram layouts. Lots of brightly colored vehicles running at one time is what makes trolleys and trams visually interesting and more of a challenge to operate. I am hoping the new BM-04 can work with both types of stop roadway.

 

On the Bus Stop mechanism in your photos, you can see the long magnet and also the empty round opening where the "automatic stop" magnet used to be mounted. My memory was that the user had to add this magnet, but when I dug out my 3 examples the one with the round magnet still in place seems to have it glued in. That means we can't "simply" remove it (as I wrote above) from old Bus Stops in order to use the old stops with the new BM-04 chassis. My other 2 Bus Stops I bought second-hand, and the previous owner had forcibly removed that round magnet. I don't know why that was done, but now I understand why it took force to remove the magnets.

 

Other than that, the roadway photos confirm that they are unchanged in design. I need to revise my earlier statement about the little C-001 66mm radius curves. While Tomytec is saying they are not compatible with the new standard BM-04 chassis, at the same time they are preparing to offer these pieces for sale again. So they are not really obsolete. I think the real issue is how long you can make the variable wheelbase on the BM-04 before you have a problem with the rear wheels falling off the inside edge of the curve. I suspect the BM-04 will also be able to run on the old intersections, too, as long as the wheelbase is kept under that critical length. (Of course, you can always fashion a piece of filler material to widen the inside of the road, too.)

 

Wolf, is there any statement in the set instructions about what the range of the variable wheelbase of the BM-04 is? If not, can you measure it for us? The BM-01 is 32mm wheelbase, the BM-02 is 35mm, and the variable BM-03 is 38mm to 44mm. The "World Bus" GMC WBM-L01 chassis is supposedly variable 28-40mm according to an Osborn's Models listing for it. (I don't know the wheelbase of the WBM-L02 chassis for the Mercedes-Benz Citaro bus.) I am trying to figure out if it may be possible to re-power the GMC and Citaro buses with the BM-04 chassis, to get rid of the rechargeable lithium battery issues. I have a few of the BM-04 chassis on order and am waiting for them to be released and shipped, so I can explore this further. There may be too much rear overhang on the BM-04 (behind the rear wheels) to fit in the GMC body shell.

 

That little screw and battery hold-down piece on the BM-04 are fiddly and will be easy to lose, unfortunately. Opening the battery compartment to turn the chassis "off" is a clever idea, but it means you can not store the bus sitting on its wheels in that "off" condition.

 

Thanks again for taking and sharing the photos of the new set.

 

Rich K.

Edited March 20, 2023 by brill27mcb

[Wolf]

min max is 32 to 43 mm if i measured correct.

 

Also the battery will not fall out even when switched off, you can store it on its wheels.

 

[brill27mcb]

Thanks! The min/max wheelbase you measured for the BM-04 chassis makes sense. The minimum matches the min of BM-1, the shortest chassis it replaces, and the maximum almost matches the max of BM03, the longest chassis it replaces.

 

What I meant on the battery is that it looks like the finger tab, when the compartment is open, would hang farther down than the wheels.

 

Rich K.

Edited March 1, 2023 by brill27mcb

[Wolf]

1 hour ago, brill27mcb said:

What I meant on the battery is that it looks like the finger tab, when the compartment is open, would hang farther down than the wheels.

 

No, probably just looks like it, the tab is higher than the wheels when standing in wheels.

 

Also, in case this is of any importance to anyone, we just today ran one of the new chassis at an old "Faller Car System for N Scale" installation and it worked pretty well, including 3 out of 4 stops we have installed. We noticed that the magnet on the front axle is pretty heavy grapping on the faller systems metal wire, and generated a lot of pressure to the track, even enough to stop the car entirely. Putting a weight on the running wheels in the back solved that issue.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Wolf

[AlanL]

Missed getting some of the new chassis this time. Have them on order for second release. Has anyone taken apart one of the BM-4 chassis? On the outset it looks like there is no PCB or processor involved. Using only one LR44 battery means 1.5v is required. Since there are no leds and typical processor chips require around 3.3v it appears as if there is nothing but a motor running at 1.5v for slower speed and most likely a hall detector open up the line to the motor causes the quick start and stop. It would be interesting to see one taken apart.

Glad to see that they have returned to the market.

[inobu]

1 hour ago, AlanL said:

Missed getting some of the new chassis this time. Have them on order for second release. Has anyone taken apart one of the BM-4 chassis? On the outset it looks like there is no PCB or processor involved. Using only one LR44 battery means 1.5v is required. Since there are no leds and typical processor chips require around 3.3v it appears as if there is nothing but a motor running at 1.5v for slower speed and most likely a hall detector open up the line to the motor causes the quick start and stop. It would be interesting to see one taken apart.

Glad to see that they have returned to the market.

That's true there's no PCB or anything. The PCB allowed for dual speed and USB charging.

I rather have the LiPO/USB.

 

Inobu

[AlanL]

So far I have all the chassis except for the BM-4.  Some use LR44 batteries and some use a 3.7 lith rechargable. Looking forward to getting some BM-4 so I can look inside!

[inobu]

 

 

 

 

 

Here's them side by side

 

 

There's nothing in them.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by inobu

[brill27mcb]

Well, Hobby Search posted the bus track roadway pieces as arrived and in stock, and most of them promptly went "sold out." I expect a re-stocking will happen. So the Moving Bus System is back, with both a set and separate track pieces having been produced!

 

On March 7 I had received an email from HS, notifying me of a changed release schedule for my pre-ordered BM-04 chassis from "Mar" to "Mid-Mar". While the roadway pieces have arrived in stock, the BM-04 has not, and today I got another HS email changing the expected release of the BM-04 from "Mid Mar" to "Late Mar". Hopefully it doesn't slide into April and cost me a second shipping charge.

 

Rich K.

Edited March 17, 2023 by brill27mcb

[Se123e]

Hey guys, I'm new here, just beginning my bus journey. I've got a BM-03 and have been looking for a 1960s American Era bus shell/body. Does anyone know of a source?

I thought this Rapido might work, but the window inserts make it a bit to narrow and the length is a little long for the 03. 

Thanks!

Scott 

[bill937ca]

GM TDH-4512. When sold as a set it came with unidentified power chassis.

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&state=&sold=0&sortid=6&searchkey=tdh

Edited March 19, 2023 by bill937ca

[brill27mcb]

The Tomytec GMC TDH-4512 bus used a "WBM-L01" Moving Bus power chassis. That chassis used a rechargeable Lithium Polymer (LiPo) battery pack, for which replacements are not readily available. A number of us are hoping that the forthcoming adjustable-length BM-04 power chassis can be used somehow to replace the WBM-L01, so we can get our American buses rolling again. (There's an identical problem with Tomytec's German Citaro bus models.) One issue will be whether the BM-04 chassis requires more rear overhang (length beyond the rear tires) than the GMC bus body shell provides.

 

There is a detailed discussion of the Tomytec GMC bus here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=38828.0

 

How long in millimeters is the required wheelbase on the Rapido bus shell? That shell would be a nice application. If the body has sufficient rear overhang room and you are mechanically adept, you might be able to extend the BM-04 wheelbase even further. There seems to be no need to have the chassis' steering front end connected to the powered rear end at all. Each could be mounted separately in the body shell.

 

The Tomytec bus shells seem to rest down with portions of the lower edge of the window inserts sitting on insertable protrusions on the side of the chassis. It may be possible for you to trim back the bottom edge of the window inserts on the Rapido shell, so that the power chassis fits in and the body rests at the right height on the chassis.

 

Rich K.

Edited March 20, 2023 by brill27mcb

[Kamome]

So what I can gather from videos of the new Moving Bus System 2.0 is that its practically the same product with a few subtle changes.

 

Pros

• It is available again after many years of absence.
• Now the motor units only take a single button battery instead of 2. Be interesting to see how each unit lasts in comparison.
• Essentially a one size fits all (in theory) motor chassis.

Cons

• No more speed change magnet so the bus could slow as it approached a stop, then switch to a higher speed once leaving.
• No more auto-stop function. Looks as if user has to manually push forward the lever to GO position for the bus to continue.

Not sure how enamoured I am with the new offering. Great that its again available but as railway modellers, the big draw was the fact that is was relatively automated as a compliment to the trains. If you have to manually stop and start it all the time, I'm not sure it really fulfils its purpose unless you want just a bus layout.

Let's hope Tomytec expands the range a bit. In theory, the system could be automated with some replacement option to control the stop mechanism at the bus stops or any other points along the route,  equivalent to TNOS without need to control throttles. 

 

For those members who have bought the new set, please feel free to correct my observations if any are incorrect.

[brill27mcb]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:32 PM, inobu said:

That's true there's no PCB or anything. The PCB allowed for dual speed and USB charging.

I rather have the LiPO/USB.

 

Inobu

 

Inobu, are your LiPo chassis still operable after all of these years?

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:06 AM, Kamome said:

So what I can gather from videos of the new Moving Bus System 2.0 is that its practically the same product with a few subtle changes.

 

Pros

• It is available again after many years of absence.
• Now the motor units only take a single button battery instead of 2. Be interesting to see how each unit lasts in comparison.
• Essentially a one size fits all (in theory) motor chassis.

Cons

• No more speed change magnet so the bus could slow as it approached a stop, then switch to a higher speed once leaving.
• No more auto-stop function. Looks as if user has to manually push forward the lever to GO position for the bus to continue.

Not sure how enamoured I am with the new offering. Great that its again available but as railway modellers, the big draw was the fact that is was relatively automated as a compliment to the trains. If you have to manually stop and start it all the time, I'm not sure it really fulfils its purpose unless you want just a bus layout.

Let's hope Tomytec expands the range a bit. In theory, the system could be automated with some replacement option to control the stop mechanism at the bus stops or any other points along the route,  equivalent to TNOS without need to control throttles. 

 

For those members who have bought the new set, please feel free to correct my observations if any are incorrect.

 

Not everyone here is primarily a "railway modeller." We have some real bus fans among us, and I have learned that trams and trolleys are different enough from mainline railways to be a separate specialty. For me, the trains complement the trams, not the other way around, on my layouts.

 

Yes, better automation and control would be great. An issue with automation would be the need for sensors (as TNOS requires) in the roadway to detect the buses, like Madsing did in his amazing Yukari automated bus line. I, too, will miss the automatic stop-restart at bus stops.

 

Back in 2013, some interesting photos turned up on this forum and elsewhere, giving tantalizing insights into what Tomytec designers had in mind for the Moving Bus System. Especially this one: dc-crafts.main.jp/trm/img2013/img20130517jl.jpg which shows two parallel guide wires under a single roadway piece instead of one centered wire, and Tomix electric turnout point motors clipped under the Moving Bus intersection and stop section roadway pieces. (Also very interesting in this photo are the various curved guide wire paths.)

 

If you look under the production S-003 Stop/Start Road Section, you will see that the mounting tabs for the point motors are there, but there is no mechanism to translate the longitudinal motion the coils would produce to a sideways motion needed to move the stop magnet in and out of position. But apparently the Tomytec engineeers had developed them, and those slots at 45 degrees may be part of that design. Note that there are three bar magnet mounting locations in the design (with the center one being used), two parallel manual slide tabs that can easily be separated for individual use, and multiple guide wire mounting grooves. As a demonstration, I have snapped point motor frames into a roadway piece, as shown below. They end up slightly offset, and there are suitable slots available for their wires to exit out of the side of the roadway piece. I don't have any intersection pieces to check.

 

Rich K.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by brill27mcb

[brill27mcb]

On some other Tomytec Moving Bus topics, I found in playing with my original BM-01 powered buses that fixing the tapered coil spring on the back of the chassis greatly improved the reliability of them starting. The tapered spring has to be bent slightly off-vertical, so that it angles toward the front of the chassis and slightly inward to the center, firmly making electrical contact with the back end of the motor. That can be done by taking out the top screw and removing the circuit board, or if you are careful by releasing the back end of the circuit board and angling it upward so that you can bend the spring forward enough.

 

I also found that my two BM-01 chassis would stop several times on the S-003 74 mm Stop/Start Roadway piece, when it was in the "proceed" position. The magnetic attraction to the guide wire was too strong in those places and was holding the bus back, with its wheels spinning. On looking at the underside of the roadway piece, I noticed that Tomytec had added two shorter second pieces of ferrous guide wire, by mounting them under the full-length piece (see at the left and center of my photo). Since I have more than one of these roadway pieces, I carefully removed and saved the two second wires, which greatly improved the operation of the buses. When I get my anxiously awaited BM-04 chassis, I will see how they do on this roadway piece.

 

Lastly, I have confirmed that the BM-01, BM-02 and BM-03 chassis all came with 6.6 mm diameter tires. So why did Tomytec produce 7.0 mm as well as 6.6 mm diameter tires as spare parts back in 2012? Does anyone know? Could it have been to lift the bus slightly and lessen the magnetic attraction to the roadway guide wire?

 

Rich K.

Edited March 23, 2023 by brill27mcb

[inobu]

3 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

 

Inobu, are your LiPo chassis still operable after all of these years?

 

Rich K.

Yes, they are still running. Even after the full discharge issue. I was able to recharge them and kept an eye on them after all these years.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Rich K.

 

Those 04's are not very good. It looks like the single battery drove changes by default. The voltage drop 

means less power which required a smaller magnet. Smaller magnet will most likely induce problems.

 

Inobu

[Se123e]

I did finally get some of my backordered items 

[brill27mcb]

Se123e, congratulations and let us know how things go for you...

 

Rich K.

[bill937ca]

The new moving bus BM-04 power chassis arrived at Hobby Search March 24, 2023. 

 

From Hobby Search description:

 BM-01 to BM-03 driving functions [automatic stop and start] and [2-step speed variable] are not compatible with this product <BM-04>. Regarding roads, [intersections] and [stopping roads] are not supported.
*BM-01, BM-02R, BM-03 will be discontinued.
* Do not bring magnets or other magnetic objects close to the running bus. Malfunction may occur.

 https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10934243

 

But in the video it seems to stop at the bus stop.

 

"It is an unboxing video of a new product, but it is a personal unboxing scene. Please note that there may be mistakes in handling. BM-04 Unpacking the running power unit of the bus collection and running for the first time I can't stop at the normal power unit and the power unit that isn't. Do not work. I encountered an abnormal situation again and did not go to the opening of the accessories."

 

Video by Model train sttysov番組トレンド

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by bill937ca