Sumida Crossing

[KenS]

You should be excited (and maybe relieved) to finally have running trains! ^^ That's a big step!

 

Yes to both!

 

Congratulatins for the 'first Run'!

 

Thanks.

[Bernard]

Wow, that's great news! The video shows what a busy layout scenery wise this is going to be.

[Concept Model Trains]

I really enjoyed the video Ken and look forward to more.  You will have great layout when it's complete.

[KenS]

It's been a couple of weeks, time for an update.

 

I had a bit of fun running trains (no new video), before I put paper and masking tape over the just-completed subway track and began getting messy on the Riverside Station scene.  That's still early days yet, but I'm hoping to have real progress by next weekend, as I'm on vacation (it's a "stay home and catch up on things" vacation, and there should be some time for railroad work in there).

 

But in addition I've been plugging away at the River Crossing scene, painting the foam of the hillside, and working on the roof for the subway (basically a few sheets of 2mm styrene that had to be cut to fit the foam, and then painted).  I also built the support structure for the expressway (I can't recall if I'd mentioned that before), which is 1/4" threaded rod holding up a plywood base, with 1" PVC pipe around it to make it look like a concrete post. The plywood will eventually be hidden within the real expressway.

 

And I've finally gotten around to my first test of a photographic backdrop, something I've been planning from "day 1", but never found time for before.

 

The idea is to cover some/all of my blue backdrops with photos found online (I'm sticking to ones with Creative Commons licenses that allow derivative works), which I'll enlarge, print onto letter-size sheets of paper (good photo paper) and glue to the backdrop. But first I need to test the concept, and see how a likely image looks.  The one I've used, a view from Himeji Castle isn't even of Tokyo, but I like it well enough that I'll probably end up using it for the final image. Blown up to 4-feet wide, with an effective resolution of 64 dpi, it's a bit blotchy up close, but looks pretty good from several feet away. Not perfect, but probably acceptable.

 

This test image was simply printed on ordinary paper using a color laser printer, and taped to the backdrop with double-sided Scotch tape. It actually looks pretty good, although I expect the tape won't stay stuck very long (my foam-core expressway has had the details I taped to it falling off since about a week after it was built). The eventual "final" image will be printed on a heavier coated stock (I'm thinking of "presentation" paper, which is coated and heavier than ordinary paper, but much lighter than "photo" paper), and will likely be printed on a photo-inkjet printer for best color rendition.

 

So the end result is that while the "River Crossing Scene" is a long way from done, I've banished all the pink foam from sight under a layer of paint, and all of the structures are roughed in, one way or another.  I have many, many, hours of work yet to do there, someday, but it looks fairly good (at least to me, as compared with the pink scenery I've been looking at for the past eight months; on an objective scale, I'll admit it looks pretty rough).

 

Photo 1: the photo backdrop of the River Crossing scene, viewed from in front of the Riverside Station scene (i.e., from about eight feet away).

 

Photo 2: A closer view, about four feet to the near edge

 

Photo 3: From the other side (notice how the vertical street in the photo leans away in both images; perspective is a funny thing)

 

Photo 4: The now-painted hillside, with the subway roof in place (it still needs a wall where the road goes up the hill) and the slightly less temporary expressway (final PVC pipe supports and plywood deck, temporary foam-core roadway loosely placed on deck).

 

Photo 5: This is the end of the Riverside Station scene where the most work has been done.  The foam holding up the Rapid/Shinkansen track (left) is painted and ready to glue down once I finish the river embankment. Another foam-core bridge has been built to serve as a placeholder, and for me to appraise how it will look before I spend time building the real one.

 

Photo 6: and here's the work to date on the rest.  I've added the window-screen edging to the first layer of foam, but have yet to paint it or add upper layers of foam.

[disturbman]

I quite like your photographic backdrop but, at the same time, something is bothering me. I find the perspective a bit strange and the transition between the model and the backdrop abrupt. Since this part of your layout looks a bit suburban, wouldn't it better to use a picture giving the same impression? Well. That's just an odd feeling I'm having, nothing to be concerned about. :) I hope I didn't piss on your parade.

[KenS]

All feedback is good feedback. Even if I don't agree, having a different perspective helps me refine my ideas. And sometimes I find I do agree, and just hadn't realized it.

 

The transition from layout to backdrop is always problematic.  The best way to do it requires more space: a hill or row of structures with a gap behind them, to define a space between foreground and background.  I'd been hoping the hill on the layout, coupled with the way the photo starts from behind some trees that surroound the castle it was taken from would help. I may try shifting the photo up to show more of the trees, as well as adding some brush.  This is going to be an even larger issue with using photo backdrops elsewhere on my layout.

 

The suburban/urban part is a bit harder to pin down. Tokyo has lots of mixed residential/commercial areas with two to three story buildings near larger, more urban, areas, but they aren't adjacent. One of the problems with this photo is that it lacks a band of 4-6 story buildings that could form a transitional break between such areas. I'd hoped the hillside would serve that function, and I think it does, but I see your point.

 

Finally, the perspective is a problem. From a distance it looks better, but from even four feet away the sharp side angle it's viewed from is not very convincing. I think that's going to be a problem for any backdrop photo used here that has strong vertical lines, which means any urban photo.

 

Maybe I'll look for a more suburban photo with less of a vertical componet to it and give that a try.

[SubwayHypes]

wow man this layout is kickass.  i love the expressway and river, looks alot like tokyo for sure!  and the amount of custom fab i see is astounding too, im envious. 

 

that video is really cool too, you incorporated the subway line in there perfectly.

 

and that backdrop too!  thats exactly what i want to do.  i wonder if they sell anything like that over in japan, i looked but could not find.

[KenS]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

 

So much of it still feels terribly unfinished to me (and it is), so I don't often step back and look at the things I have done, I just snap a photo of recent work and move on to the next problem. It's good to have someone look at it with fresh eyes and point out that there has been quite a bit of progress over the past year.

 

I've been in one of my periodic lulls in construction recently. Partly that's because I've been thinking about some problems I have at the end of the Riverside Station scene.  Partly it's because I've been thinking about my electric system and my desire to run DC as well as DCC on the outer loop. I've solved that, I think, with a combination of removing some DCC-based things (e.g., signals) from that loop and adding more wiring. Or at least that's the plan, I have to go do the work now (another pair of bus wires and A/B switches on my electrical control panel).  I'll post an update once that's been done.

[Bernard]

Ken - Don't you know even when you finish a layout, you never finish a layout. 

I'm still working on mine and it's been 6 or 7 years, I've lost count..... Yikes :confused3:

 

I do run DC and DCC on my Viaduct line with DTDP switches. It works but I'm very careful when I've been away from the layout. I always test it with a DC train first just to make sure everything is set up right, then I'll go to DCC.

I know the feeling of "now what am I supposed to put in this area of the layout" quandary. Every time I look at the empty area around the viaduct section, my mind goes blank.....so then I run trains. It's a vicious cycle. 

[KenS]

Ken - Don't you know even when you finish a layout, you never finish a layout. 

 

Yes, but some days it feels like I'm still trying to get started. 

 

Every time I look at the empty area around the viaduct section, my mind goes blank.....so then I run trains. It's a vicious cycle. 

 

Oh, do I know that feeling!

[KenS]

It's been quite a while since my last update. Mostly that's because I've been working on electrical wiring and other uninteresting stuff. In addition to more bus wires under the layout, I wired up a panel with some ammeters to keep track of my various power supplies, as well as being a mounting point for my loconet panels, and I've got the DCC system set up and ready to run trains, once I have track connected to it. The panel also has a pair of A/B switches, to switch the two tracks of the outer loop between DC (the two Kato powerpacks) and DCC.  That gives me a place to run my DC trains, and to break in new ones before conversion.

 

Photos 1 & 2 show the power management panel.

 

Then I started what I thought would be a quick diversion to finish the subway station roof and put the outer loop tracks above it.  It was anything but quick.

 

Photo 3 shows the support for the front part of the subway roof.  This is a bar of 1/8 inch aluminum screwed to blocks of wood, which are glued to the table. This holds the roof (0.080-inch styrene) above the level of the cut-out windows in the front fascia. It seems pretty solid despite the 4.5-inch (110mm) span, but I've made provision for some center supports if I need them (1/4-inch brass tube disguised as concrete support columns to be mounted to the subway platform).

 

Photo 4 shows the back wall of the subway before painting. This will actually be hidden by an inner wall, with the notch used to contain wiring for the station lighting.  This will hold up the other side of the subway roof.

 

Photos 5 & 6 show the subway station with the roof (white styrene) and the front fascia on.  The roof will have a Woodland Scenics incline glued to it, and then some paint and scenic materials applied. Much of that may wait until later, but I do want to get the riser and roadbed down so I can lay the outer loop track for real.

 

I was also diverted by planning the grade crossing back by the large river.  I needed to get the mechanism for the crossing gates fully worked out in my head before I glue the foam down.  This is going to be two sets of double gates (entrance and exit, with separate timing) operated by a pair of Tortoise slow-motion switch machines, controlled by a DS64 stationary DCC decoder, so I can control the gates based on block occupancy detection (more Digitrax gear).

 

Photo 7 shows the street-level plan, and 8 shows the fine brass tubing driven through the foam (and through holes drilled in the table below) which will serve as guides for the wires lifting the gates. I have a rough idea of what the electronics will look like, and most of the parts I need. But I probably won't actually get to wiring it up for a couple of months.  I need to build the crossing gates and signals first, and other things take precedence.

 

I've been puttering around on the planning of the station on the commuter line, as I mentioned in my recent contest update.  That's going to move to the front burner once I get the outer loop up.  I also need to seriously start converting my trains to DCC (so far I've done one E231 with an EM13 decoder; I have many more to go, as well as quite a few trains that will be more challenging).

[Bernard]

Ken - You've really been busy! Quite an impressive control panel. I have the ability to also run DCC & DC on just one line on my layout, but nothing compared to what you've achieved. Great work!

[SubwayHypes]

damn man really impressive work being done...especially with that electric panel light years ahead of my setup.

 

what kind of supports are you using for your expressways?  ive been browsing local hardware stores for random things that i wont have to cut.  for example. there are certain PVC tubes that are an even 3 or 4 inches..perfect for that kind stuff.  but it looks like you just cut a 2x4 with a woodsaw at 4" increments...i might have to do that too.

 

also, how do you manage to print those images?  you mentioned you print is page by page then glue them up.  and you use glossy photo paper?  im probably gonna copy you haha.  i also want to implement an expressway into my layout too but you have so much more room than me lol.  nice work on your layout man im jealous.  but check out mine in a few months it should be pretty nice too!

[KenS]

what kind of supports are you using for your expressways?  ive been browsing local hardware stores for random things that i wont have to cut.  for example. there are certain PVC tubes that are an even 3 or 4 inches..perfect for that kind stuff.   but it looks like you just cut a 2x4 with a woodsaw at 4" increments...i might have to do that too.

 

Thanks to both of you for the kind comments.  Positive reinforcement is a good thing, expecially when things seem to never quite get finished.

 

The outer tube is one-inch PVC sanded with 150-grit paper (held in my hand wrapped around the tube) to remove the printing and roughen the surface, painted with off-white plastic-friendly spray paint, then with woodland scenics "concrete" paint. I cut it using a band saw, which doesn't make for square ends, but the way I'm using it that doesn't matter since it's only cosmetic and  both ends will be concealed.

 

The real support is quarter-inch threaded rod with nuts and washers which runs up the middle of the tube.  There is a page on my site describing it further.  You can get the rod in 1-foot lenths, but I buy long sections and cut it to length using a set of really-big bolt cutters. I had to make a lot of short rods for my viaduct station, so the bolt cutters were a worthwhile investment. You can probably get it cut to length for you at a home supply store if you only need a few cuts.

 

also, how do you manage to print those images?   you mentioned you print is page by page then glue them up.  and you use glossy photo paper?  im probably gonna copy you haha.  i also want to implement an expressway into my layout too but you have so much more room than me lol.  nice work on your layout man im jealous.  but check out mine in a few months it should be pretty nice too!

 

It's matte heavy presentation paper,  printed on a color laser printer.  I used PosteRazor on a Mac to cut the image into page-sized segments. There's a problem with that, as it appears to re-send the whole image for each page.  One of my larger images took several hours to print about 20 pages. Then I used a razor-blade photo-trimmer to remove the white borders from each.

 

I took the backdrop outdoors, sprayed it with some photo-safe (non-acidic) spray glue, then laid the images down with a 1/8-inch overlap (something PosteRazor will add) and rolled them flat with a 4-inch rubber roller (the kind sold in craft stores for spreading ink). I wore my painting filter mask while doing that; spray glue is nothing I want in my lungs.

 

It was actually pretty easy and quick work, but frankly, I'm not that thrilled with the result.  The seams are too obvious in person.  I'm thinking of trying out a print shop that will do a 48-inch poster print (it may cost around $100 for one though, so I may live with the seams).

 

I look forward to seeing more of you work.

[inobu]

Good work Ken,

 

I see what you mean about the seams. You are on the right track (pun?) though. Great progress.

 

As it was stated the perspective is hard to nail down. The key is to manipulate the disconnect between the brain and the eye. The brain sometimes make assumptions and overlooks certain aspects of the things we view. Viewing perspective plays its role in dictating where the brain assumes you are and links that with your eye level.  

 

 

The view angle has the viewer looking down, the clouds and the horizon angle creates a perception of a high cliff that drops off on the other side. Your brain will accept that image and move on. It's not until you apply reason that the back drop is off. The cloud formation in reference to height and distance and sun angle is off.  

 

 

This image presents a eye level perspective where we are looking across the plane and the clouds above.  

 

My latest revelation occurred on Delta airlines. They have in flight data on the screens, as we were landing I tried to match my N Scale viewing perspective with the altimeter. It started matching up at 400 to 300 feet. When I did the math 24 inches is 300 N Scale feet and is the typical viewing distance of our layouts. Most of our layouts are from this viewing angle and perspective.

Birds eye view

 

 

When ever you have a layout in the center of the floor/room the back drop is ruled out by the brain. It assumes that you are viewing/flying over the layout and no sky image is expected.

 

If the layout is against the wall the brain assumes a panoramic view and looks for the sky and horizon. The viewing distance, angle and eye level will dictate the amount of sky placed on the back drop.

 

Hope it add some insight. In any case your progress and work is commended for sure.

 

Inobu

[KenS]

You are exactly correct.  The problem is that I didn't leave space behind the track sufficient to do that, On the big curve there's room at the edges for the two small hills, and I'm hoping the addition of some vegetation will help suggest a hill that falls away on the far side. In the center that illusion is always going to be weak, as the track is about an inch from the backdrop and the road draws the eye to the edge. I do have the ability to add space there.  The backdrop can actually be set back about two inches relatively easily, and further with some work, as its only held on by carriage bolts, and a the leg frame below the table extends back two more inches. I may eventually do that if I have to.

 

On the Urban Station scene I should be able to line the back of the table with a row of buildings, although it may require me to change the design of the tram line.

 

But the Riverside Station scene is the hard one.  The back track is about an inch from the backdrop, and where it isn't, the subway tracks underneath limit my ability to suggest lower ground.  Right now I'm thinking of some kind of fence, to suggest a street or similar just out of sight, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work, and I've yet to find a wide photo with the right perspective that I can use as a backdrop behind it.

 

This is clearly an aspect of the design I didn't give adequate thought to when I was working out the track plan.

[inobu]

When we envision the layouts, we create mental snap shots of what we see in our minds, the problem is real life viewer pans or scans the layout, walking from scene to scene. This requires the designer to manage what and how the viewer sees things. Ken ,the basis of the layout is established the only thing you have to do is frame it up.

 

I remembered seeing a layout that was framed up in multiple scenes............. It took me a while but I found it. I think your best bet is to frame up the layout by placing boarders for the brain to frame the scenes. This will control the scanning nature of the eye.

 

Here is what I mean by framing up.   

 

 

The idea is to confine the movements of the eye and allow you to dictate what they see.

 

 

Complete site.

 

http://csxdixieline.blogspot.com/

[KenS]

It's been a while since I posted.  Partly because I'd posted a few updates on the station contest thread. Recent work has been wiring, more wiring, and then some more wiring. Not to mention track cleaning; it's picked up a lot of construction dirt over the summer.

 

But, about an hour ago, I finished checking the last wire on the outer double-track look (what I call the Rapid/Shinkansen line).  This is the one that's wired for DC or DCC (big DPDT toggle switch for each track, and a pair of Kato power packs).  And so I ran my first train (well, the first train on that loop with the real track; I'd run a loop of unitrack around the outside of the table about nine months ago, when there was no scenery, and run a few trains then, and I've had the subway loop operational since June).

 

These are all DC trains.  The DCC stuff should be ready to go, but my one DCC train is on the workbench while I finish adding lighting kits to it (I've got to get back to that; just a couple of cars to go, and one to fix).  After I clean up some scenery, and get the DCC train running, I'm going to try shooting some video and making another short movie.

 

Photo 1: After I was sure the wiring was good (lots of checks with a multimeter, and one set of crossed feeders to fix) I ran the first trains, but just to be safe in case of problems I used an old B23 and my Tomix DE10 (both are expendable now that I have a couple of Kato DE10s).  Despite some serious cleaning in the last week, there must have been dirt on the track, as they had problems in a few places, but after a few loops those went away (maybe the unijoiners just needed to settle in; I'm not feeding every section, just every four feet or so).

 

Photo 2: I pulled them off once I was sure of the track, and set up my 16-car M250.  Here it is running down the long straight above the subway station.

 

Photo 3: Hmm, that Yamanote line driver seems to have wandered onto the wrong track. 

 

You can't really get the sense of it from these photos, but those trains look just incredible swinging around the big curve above the "village" area.

[disturbman]

Great achievement! :)

[KenS]

Thanks.

[KenS]

It's been a long time coming, but I finally "finished" my first DCC train. This involved adding the "DCC Friendly" cab and motor decoders to a Kato Joban Line E231, installing interior lighting kits, painting the interior and adding passengers (unpainted Preiser figures painted primer gray with black heads, as mostly they're just silhouettes) and adding the decals and cab antennas.

 

I'm not entirely satisfied with the way it came out (too monochrome on the interior), and will probably try the cheap painted Chinese figures on my next train to make the passengers more visible and add some color.

 

Photo 1: The finished train, running on DCC

 

Photo 2: Close-up of the cab front

 

Photo 3: Close-up side view (note: you'll never see this level of detail from a normal viewing distance)

 

Photo 4: and this is what it looks like on the inside

 

And to give a real sense of the impact (which is subtle, but there) I made a video, which also shows off the sweeping curve part of the layout (but that's just a coincidence  ):

 

 

I am glad I painted the interior, even if it didn't come out as good as I'd hoped. The bare beige plastic was really annoying with the lighting kits installed, and at DCC voltages the LED lighting was too bright reflected off the light-colored plastic. The painted interior tones the intensity down and adds some texture from the blue seats and gray interior. But you can't really see the gray people from a normal distance when the train is moving.

[David]

I'm looking at doing this with my E127 units (and then maybe others) in the future, so this really helps show how it can look. I don't think you can notice it from outside, but if you wanted a tighter paint job on the seats, dollar store masking tape seems to work wonders (my recent layout showing me just how sharp a line you could get). The cheap, "squishy" tape instead of the firmer scotch brand name stuff was key, as the glue is very weak allowing it to be peeled off easily. I might do the same with my Hankyu set (painting the seat covers on), but for that one I need to find a lot of sitting passengers (cutting standing people might not work well because of the position of their hands).

[Bernard]

Ken - I liked what you did, now I'm curious how this would work with Shinkansen seating, where passengers are sitting side by side.

 

David - with all the work involved, is it worth making it a permanent fixture with people sitting in the train.

Meaning, a very, very small drop of CA glue.

 

Ooops, my mistake about the masking tape.  :confused1:

[David]

I didn't mean tape for the people, the tape is for masking off the area around the seats - that way there is a nice clean line between the blue seats and the floor. Once the paint is dried the tape is removed. With the standing/sitting, it's about the fact that the standing peoples hands are often just below their hips - if you just cut standing people to make them into "sitting" people it looks like they're sitting on their hands. Either way they need to be glued down (even sitting people probably need some of their legs cut off to fit the higher floor of the model).

[KenS]

Most Shinkansen windows are pretty small.  I'd see that as more of a problem for the Limited Express trains with big windows and either side-by-side seating or seats that face observation windows.  For a Shinkansen, probably all you could see would be the head of the figure in the window seat, if that. That's reason to use the painted figures there.

 

And likewise, you really only see the back of seated figures from most viewing angles on the commuter train, so "sitting on their hands" wouldn't be obvious.  But that is going to be a problem for the visible-seat kinds of trains.  I may have to invest (and that's a good word, they're not cheap) in painted Preiser or similar figures there.

 

I did have to cut the legs off the seated figures a bit below the knees, due to the floor height. In the cab cars, I cut them off at the waist, as the floor is actually higher than the seats in some places, and only slightly lower elsewhere.

 

Tape, or masking film used for airbrushing, would be good to use where the front of the seat is really visible, but unless you're going to look very closely that isn't really the case with typical commuter trains. If you have steady hands you could probably just paint very carfully. I was pretty sloppy here and painted quickly without much caution, in part because I wanted to see if the mistakes were visible. Also, I didn't do a second coat of gray to fix overpainting of blue onto the floor or uprights. The idea was to see if it's worth the time to do a better job, or if this is a place that's not needed. My conclusion is that the extra work would be unnecessary.

 

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.