Sumida Crossing

[CaptOblivious]

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.

 

Could you say a bit more what this glue is like? I used plain white glue (PVA glue) to attach figures inside one of my trains, and I found that the glue is a bit…brittle? The figures will detach if the train is handled the least bit roughly. So I'm looking for something else that holds better but that is non-permanent.

[cteno4]

Ill put in my 2 cents on the scenics accents glue. i like it for little things like figures that you might want to move easily later. its sort of a cross between rubber cement and pva. gives you a pretty strong bond that is a little flexible. holds up well. i have figure sets held down now for like 2 years on acetate sheets that i plop on the jrm layout and they get flexed and knocked around and still hanging in there. every once and a while one of the figures gets knocked at an angle but none knocked off yet. you can even pull them up and squish them down again to stick somewhere else, the second stick is not as hard, but for streets where its not getting knocked around its fine. in fact you can just let a little dab partially dry on their feet and then stick on a street to get a bit tackier of a bond (when the glue is wet figures can slowly lean over until it starts to set up.)

 

you can also pick it off if needed. i suspect it will also soak off with water, but have not tried that.

 

one thing is it can collect a tiny bit of dust as it does stay a tad tacky.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[David]

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.

 

Could you say a bit more what this glue is like? I used plain white glue (PVA glue) to attach figures inside one of my trains, and I found that the glue is a bit…brittle? The figures will detach if the train is handled the least bit roughly. So I'm looking for something else that holds better but that is non-permanent.

 

Assuming "Accent Glue" is refering to the Woodland Scenic S190 Scenic Glue (frequently referenced by WS as being used to attach "accent" pieces), then it is not like white glue in that regard. I'm going to post some kind of post-mortem on my layout construction soon or later, including a review of the products used.

 

The S190 glue is an interesting product. It is initially like white glue, both in color and texture (though it is more opaque, being a solid white instead of a watery white), and is applied in the same way. It dries to a very pleasing clear matte finish (rather then a white finish), even in thick quantities. Once dried it becomes rock hard (not brittle), rather then the weaker, brittle bond of white glue or the slightly elastic bond of rubber cement. I should emphasis that it dries into a very hard material - when I overfilled my wiring holes with it, resulting in one hole being sealed with a thin deposit, it took considerable effort with files and tools to penetrate and break it down. The one downside compared to rubber cement (which led me to using the cement some of the pieces of my buildings) is that it takes a while to harden, and until then it remains watery like white glue. This makes it less useful for attaching small parts, where rubber cements semi-contact glue properties are an advantage.

[David]

Ill put in my 2 cents on the scenics accents glue. i like it for little things like figures that you might want to move easily later. its sort of a cross between rubber cement and pva. gives you a pretty strong bond that is a little flexible. holds up well. i have figure sets held down now for like 2 years on acetate sheets that i plop on the jrm layout and they get flexed and knocked around and still hanging in there. every once and a while one of the figures gets knocked at an angle but none knocked off yet. you can even pull them up and squish them down again to stick somewhere else, the second stick is not as hard, but for streets where its not getting knocked around its fine. in fact you can just let a little dab partially dry on their feet and then stick on a street to get a bit tackier of a bond (when the glue is wet figures can slowly lean over until it starts to set up.)

 

you can also pick it off if needed. i suspect it will also soak off with water, but have not tried that.

 

one thing is it can collect a tiny bit of dust as it does stay a tad tacky.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

What is the product number of the accent glue we're talking about? I haven't used the S190 glue in those small quantities yet (N scale foot size), but my experience so far has been of a very strong bond - or maybe that's because of how porous the materials I've used it on are. I haven't tested the bonds made on my buildings with it yet.

[Samurai_Chris]

Great job Ken!

 

Makes me realize just how much effort needs to go into something like this!

 

Chris

[KenS]

I have two jars of the glue, both 1.25 Oz with part number A198,  and both bearing 2002 copyrights on the label, but one is marked "Accent Glue" and the other is "Scenic Accents Glue". They appear to be identical, and the latter name is the one now found on their website's product list, in the Figures & Accents section, not listed with the scenery glues.  This is not the same as Scenic Glue (S190), Scenic Cement (S191), Hob-e-tac (S195) of Foam Tac Glue (ST1444).

 

As others have said, this doesn't act like normal white glue.  The cap contains a brush, and you brush it on as a whiteish fluid (they recommend lightly sanding the surface first), and it dries (to the extent that it dries) clear, but remains somewhat tacky so figures can be moved. For standing figures, it's best to wait until the white disappears before attaching the figure.

 

I'm not sure what's in it, but it looks, smells, and feels like white glue, so I expect that's the base and they just added something to keep it tacky. There are no hazmat cautions on the jar, as I expect there would be for anything solvent-based.

 

Chris: thanks, it is a bit of effort, but well worth it.

[cteno4]

my first bottle was the ws accent glue. my second is a 2oz bottle thats actually named sticky bond, its the scenorama brand by woodland scenics (same ws stuff they just repackage to sell for kids diorama stuff in craft stores). same stuff as the accent glue, just a bigger bottle and got to use the 50% off ac moore coupon! looks, smells and acts just like the accent glue, but with a bigger brush on the lid!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[KenS]

Just a quick note: I finally got around to assembling the video I've been shooting to show off the current state of the layout, and some of my trains:

 

[disturbman]

It's always impressive too see such long trains run. Nice roster by the way.

[Bernard]

That is one long Cargo Express! The layout looks great!

[disturbman]

Ken, I tried to reply on your website but couldn't post any answer.

 

Maybe you should just forget the idea of the river side station and do something totally different there. After all, I don't think that a station located on such a slope is very prototypical.

[KenS]

iWeb uses a pop-up window for comments, so if you've got any kind of pop-up blocker that will probably mess with it.  I've had the same problem replying to other people's sites, as my usual browsing machine blocks pop-ups.

 

I'd thought about doing something else (like some urban scenery of some kind), but if I want to keep the river there's really no room for anything else. And the track placement is dictated by the need to link to both the subway and the future helix to the storage tracks. And, while I do have the big urban station, I really want to have a second station on the commuter line.  This would all be easier if I had a larger basement. 

 

There is a prototype in a sense, as Ochanomizu Station has a split platform with up and down-grade tracks at one end (see the left side of this photo).  However, as you note mine would be a much more pronounced grade, and that does bug me.

 

Right now, with just the bare, white WS risers and inclines, the rising and descending 2% grades are very pronounced. But I think I can disguise some of that with suitable platforms (careful use of awnings may help conceal the large vertical wall immediately behind the front track). Another possibility is to make the platform on the lower track shorter, since trains interrunning to the subway could be presumed to be shorter 6-car trains, rather than the 10-car trains on the main commuter line.  I'm still not sure I like that idea though.

 

I've attached a side-on view to show what I'm looking at presently (somewhat rough, as I can't step far enough back to take good side-on photo to assemble a panorama evenly) as well as the station diagram.

[CaptOblivious]

I think that although the grade separation on Sumida Crossing is more pronounced than the prototype, that it would nicely represent the feel of Tokyo; it is a kind of hilly city, and there is frequently a lot going on at different levels I'm thinking now in particular of the Western side of Ueno station, where the road running beside the station drops in elevation, creating an interesting layered effect.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Tokyo&sll=38.61012,-90.255646&sspn=0.008518,0.013797&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tokyo,+Japan&ll=35.712406,139.774976&spn=0.017701,0.027595&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.712503,139.775047&panoid=S4RyFr0RyBdlyKKs5oVT1Q&cbp=12,45.95,,0,7.1

 

I know it's not two platforms, but I think the current plan for Sumida Crossing nicely captures something of this multi-layered feel.

[KenS]

Thanks, Captain.  And that's a really neat street.  I'd Google Mapped around Ueno park and station before, but somehow missed it.  The underground parking garage is a nice detail too.  You can suggest quite a bit with a dark hole into a hillside and some gates and signs. And I like the little slice-of-life on the street.  Is that a bicyclist getting ticketed for something? Or are the five(!) of them just guarding the traffic cone?

 

I've been staring at the track a bit more, and working on the alignment of the tracks under the bridge at the far right of the scene (second photo, taken from behind).

 

I've also done a second panorama (hopefully more evenly; this time I used a tripod and was careful to keep most of the photos square on so the perspective isn't too screwy) with a couple of ten-car trains for size comparison (the panorama software glued a couple of the cars together so it looks more like an eight-car train, but both really were ten).

 

With the cars there, I can visualize the eventual station a bit better.  Still need to stare at it a bit more, but I'm getting happier with it.

[KenS]

It's been a long time since I posted a real update, mainly because not much has been happening (aside from running trains, and a bit of tinkering on the electrical system). But with the end of the year approaching I decided to make a push to get the inner oval "commuter line" operational, and that meant finishing the topography of the Riverside Station scene.

 

I've fallen a bit short of the goal, although I should have it working sometime in January. But for now, here's an update.

 

First, I decided to go with a photo backdrop that was printed as one image, rather than using the individual sheets of paper that's I'd used on the River Crossing scene last summer. In part that was because I hadn't liked the finished look, and in part because the glue (spray-on photo-safe glue) hadn't held very well on the painted surface and the paper was starting to peel in places.

 

My plans ran into a slight snag, as you can see in the first photo: after printing the image, I realized I'd really made a serious mistake on my dimensions (the new print is on the right, the backdrop it needs to be glued to, along with a taped up test image from last summer, is on the left). If you're curious just how this train wreck happened, I wrote it up on my site.

 

After a bit of panic (not to mention lurid shouting at inanimate objects) I decided that I actually liked the image, although I do have some concerns that the height may be too dominating for the scene, even for a city skyline.  So I decided to add some height to the backdrops with an extension. Photos 2 and 3 show the extension being added and painted (I used spackle to fill the slight gap between the two pieces). I won't paint the new part blue, since it's all going to be hidden anyway, but I wanted a coat or two of primer to seal the wood before I put glue on it; I want a good bond, but not a "stronger than wood" bond, just in case I decide to remove the photo and use another later. Sealing the wood means I'll use less glue, and the bond will be weaker (but I think I've solved the "too weak" problem).

 

To take the backdrop off, I actually disassembled part of the layout, extracting the pair of 2' x 4' tables that make up the Riverside Station scene and flipping them around so I could work from the back with the backdrops removed.  This made it much easier to plaster and paint the risers.  Photos 4 and 5 show today's state of progress; the paint is drying as I type.

 

Next up will be adding the foam roadbed itself, then painting it gray (with artists acrylic Gray #5, which is a good match for the Kato roadbed color).  I'll probably also do some touch-up painting on the embankment and river before I put things back together.  I also need to add similar height extensions to the Urban Station scene, which is best done before I reinstall the Riverside Station tables (that way I can take the backdrops off, but I won't have to take the Urban Station apart).

 

And finally, while I have the Riverside Station backdrops off, I'm going to glue on the photos.  After a bit of research, I've decided the best glue for this is a PVA type originally developed for decoupage use known as "Mod Podge", or more specifically the acid-free version of it known as "Paper Mod Podge", which was developed for scrapbooking and is reported to work well for attaching photos (coated paper) to painted wood. The other type of glue recommended for paper-to-wood is 3M 77 spray glue, but it isn't acid-free, and it's both flammable and incredibly toxic, which rules out indoor use (and it's too cold out to glue stuff even if I wanted to use it).

 

Once I get all that done, I still have some wiring work before I'll be running trains (and the last time I did it, the feeder cross-connects alone took me two weeks and 200' of wire, although that was both the subway plus the express loop). Realistically, it's probably going to be close to February before I can run trains on the inner loop.

[Bernard]

Ken - I find once you get trains running sometimes it hard to get back on track with the building. This past week I had planned to work on my layout but my wife came down with the flu and that put all plans on hold.

The backdrop you've done does add depth to your layout.

[KenS]

Everything always takes longer than I expect, although part of the month was spent on building one of Don's LOLboosters (which was both educational, and a lot of fun) so I guess I can blame that for the delay in getting the layout back together (still not quite there) rather than my tendency to procrastinate. 

 

But I finally finished the photo backdrop for my Urban Station scene, and the one for the soon-to-be-reassembled Riverside Station scene is almost done.  Here are a couple of photos of the first; the other should follow within a week.

 

My big problem with these is that the glossy photo is reflecting the floodlights I use for lighting the layout, causing bright spots when viewed side on.  This is a problem due to the extra height of the backdrop (the glare is coming from the part I added, so if I'd kept the photos to the original 18" height I wouldn't have this problem).  I'm going to try tinkering with the light placement to see if I can minimize this.  As you can see from the photos, this is less of a problem in close-up or angled views.

 

If you're curious about how I made the photo backdrops from photos I found on Flickr, I wrote that up.

 

Despite the glare, I'm satisfied with the results, and much happier than I was with last summer's attempt using separate pages printed via laser printer.  The photo prints weren't cheap (about $120 per 4' backdrop, although a lot of that was due to their height; shorter photos would cost less), but assuming I keep them for the life of the layout, it's not really that great an expense compared to other parts of the structure (track, for example).  I'm eventually going to re-do the River Crossing scene backdrop I did last summer with this new method.

 

Photo 1: a close up, with the backdrop looking rather good

 

Photos 2 - 4: some other views at an angle, which don't look quite as good

 

Photo 5: the full side-on view, showing the reflected lights

[cteno4]

Ken,

 

wonderful backdrop, really hard to tell at first glance where the models stop! nice write up as well on your backdrops!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Tenorikuma]

I agree, those are pretty nice backdrops.

[KenS]

Here's a photo of the Riverside Station backdrop in nearly final position (the tables aren't back together yet, as I'm taking the time to do the wiring with them stood on edge (and clamped so they won't fall over).  I might get this all back together this weekend.  Meanwhile, the backdrop has been roughly put into its final position so I can see how it looks.

 

I don't think it works quite as well as the one in the Urban Station (and oddly enough, before I put them up I thought this one would work better than that one), but with suitable scenery (station, platform roofs, buildings, fences, etc) obscuring the lower edge, I think it will be okay.

 

Note: the wire in the second photo is six sets of bus wires. Two for DCC to allow later expansion, two for the DC/DCC tracks of the outer loop, one for DC power to various circuit boards, and one for DC power to the planned signaling system control boards. Not yet present are the circuit breaker and occupancy detector boards, which go in the open areas in the middle (one set of boards will serve 16 occupancy detectors, enough for both tables).

 

In the middle of wiring up the track feeders, I ran out of insulated Unijoiners earlier this week.  An emergency order to MB Klein (modeltrainstuff.com) saw a bunch shipped two-day UPS, which arrived today (I have to say I'm very happy with how quickly they ship orders; I've seen some places that would take three or four days before they shipped an expedited order, which rather misses the point).

[KenS]

After a great deal of wire-cutting, soldering, lug-crimping, and pulling of hair (not to mention going back and re-reading documentation and seeking out more), I finally have my first set of PM42 circuit breaker and BDL168 occupancy detector (with 2x RX4 transponding sensors) installed on the left of the two Riverside Station tables.  Now I just need to repeat that for the right one, and I can actually put them back together.

 

I remember back in December saying they'd be back together in a week or two; ah, optimism.

 

Anyway, here's a couple of photos of the table (PM42/BDL168/RX4 on the right half, wires and DS64 on the left) and a diagram showing how a representative RX1 sensor (one of four in an RX4 cluster) fits into the wiring.  I've written up my "lessons learned" on my site.

 

My spools of LED strip lights also arrived, and I plan to use them to light the Subway station as part of all of this work (which requires actually building a back wall, and putting in the platform, albeit probably a temporary one using Kato's platforms). I'm going to experiment with the normal white and warm white versions (I bought spools of each) and see how they look.

[keitaro]

Ahhhhh........

 

.........

 

.........

 

That's some insane wiring

 

This is why I do DC

 

I could never do that I would get frustrated and brake things haha.

 

Of I ever do DCC your coming to my house and wiring it  :laugh:

[Tecchan]

Ahhhhh........

 

.........

 

.........

 

That's some insane wiring

 

This is why I do DC

 

I could never do that I would get frustrated and brake things haha.

 

Of I ever do DCC your coming to my house and wiring it   :laugh:

 

lol, I was thinking exactly the same!  

[scott]

I feel like an elementary-school kid who's just been handed a textbook on advanced quantum mechanics.  :icon_scratch:

[Bernard]

The wiring is very organized and neatly done.....the way Ken's organized it, it is very easy to locate a problem if and when it happens.