Switching to N-scale

[shadowtiger25]

Well after years of collecting HO scale and attempting to build a small layout I was always unhappy with. Ive decided to attempt to switch to the smaller scale so I can build something better with the limited space I have/might have soon as Im also looking to buy my first house.

My plan is to keep the HO stuff I use frequently at the local model railroad club, and continue to do that. But for the home layout Ive wanted for years it shall be done in N.

 

Currently Ive been on a bit of a spree picking up stuff to try to replicate the mountain section of the Hokidate main line cerca 1968-1970. The main focus would be for the double headed steam express Niseko, but of course Id like to do a days operation for that line around Otaru to maybe Oshamambe, or at least some scenic spots between those points. And maybe a small branch line to service some operations.

Im super excited about this project! 

[cteno4]

Hard decision to make, but sounds like it’s a good plan to make you happy with the hobby. You can still enjoy the Ho on the big club layout and then more of an empire in N at home. I was introduced to trains with marklin HO layout a friend of my family had. It was in a huge room (like 20x30) and a very big layout and complex. But I soon realized I could never have this at home. Around the same time another family friend gave me a few cigar boxes full of atlas track, cars and engines he found at a garage sale cheap, and this I realized I could do a decent empire in a smaller space!

 

always tradeoffs, but fining the happy medium lets you have the most fun as possible!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[lighthouse]

Nice to hear someone want to play and build a scene of the Hakodate main line (north route) section between Oshamambe and Otaru. I favour this route too, a lot of heavy trains with locos in front and at the end of it and of course the steam hauled express Niseko. There where a lot more of namefull trains like "Hokuto", "Hokkai", "Ozora*", "Otori*", "Okhotsk*" mostly with KiHa82, a short time with KiHa56, "Teine" hauled mostly with D51, pushed by 9600 too. (*used not all the time from Hakodate). Diesellocos like DD51 where used in your favorite timetable more and more. So you have a lot of various trains and locos for your project and I am very interested, how do you to manage it.

 

Best regards,

 

Ulli

Edited February 2, 2023 by lighthouse

[shadowtiger25]

9 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Hard decision to make, but sounds like it’s a good plan to make you happy with the hobby. You can still enjoy the Ho on the big club layout and then more of an empire in N at home. I was introduced to trains with marklin HO layout a friend of my family had. It was in a huge room (like 20x30) and a very big layout and complex. But I soon realized I could never have this at home. Around the same time another family friend gave me a few cigar boxes full of atlas track, cars and engines he found at a garage sale cheap, and this I realized I could do a decent empire in a smaller space!

 

always tradeoffs, but fining the happy medium lets you have the most fun as possible!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

Yes, I'll be trading off the larger size with higher detail for a better layout plan essentially. I tried in HO but with the space available it wasn't anything more than a large oval I was never happy with and found myself not really enjoying. So while I wouldn't say Nscale is my first choice, I think at least for the space at home it's the better choice. I just regret not deciding it years ago when I started to build up an unfocused and rather expensive HO collection.

[shadowtiger25]

7 hours ago, lighthouse said:

Nice to hear someone want to play and build a scene of the Hakodate main line (north route) section between Oshamambe and Otaru. I favour this route too, a lot of heavy trains with locos in front and at the end of it and of course the steam hauled express Niseko. There where a lot more of namefull trains like "Hokuto", "Hokkai", "Ozora*", "Otori*", "Okhotsk*" mostly with KiHa82, a short time with KiHa56, "Teine" hauled mostly with D51, pushed by 9600 too. (*used not all the time from Hakodate). Diesellocos like DD51 where used in your favorite timetable more and more. So you have a lot of various trains and locos for your project and I am very interested, how do you to manage it.

 

Best regards,

 

Ulli

I'll have to look in to some of those. I have some genral maps, and a book focused on the time C62-2 was on that line, and a handful of videos of the niseko running through that line to go by. Though some more detailed maps out be nice to find.

 

My plan would be to focus more on the steam side of things as SLs are what I favor more than any other type of locomotive

[cteno4]

Yeah I’m always jealous of the detail in HO, but then I realized that to do great detail you have to do it everywhere or it’s really noticeable when the detail is not there to the eye! N scale let’s you cheat some and I also really enjoy playing with the kids eye in N scale where you can add some details that ping the minds eye into filling in details not there from the viewer’s visual memory. They walk away thinking they saw more detail than was actually there!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Cat]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

Yeah I’m always jealous of the detail in HO, but then I realized that to do great detail you have to do it everywhere or it’s really noticeable when the detail is not there to the eye!

Yeah, but those compact HO tram modules from the JAM show ❤️ swoon ❤️

[maihama eki]

I'm a convert from HO to N, but at the same time I went from steam era U.S. rail to modern Japanese. N-scale is very dominant in the Japanese rail world - far more products are available. That made it easy to pick n-scale for Japanese.

 

I had n-scale as a kid. The quality was junk though. Everything looked out of scale, and the trains ran horribly. Modern Japanese-made n-scale trains are sooooo much better.

 

I will say when I look at HO scale Japanese trains, I really like the extra level of detail. The prices though...

 

I still have most of my U.S. HO stuff including a decent collection of very nice brass trains. I need to let it go.

Edited February 3, 2023 by maihama eki

[Need for High Speed]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:41 PM, shadowtiger25 said:

Well after years of collecting HO scale and attempting to build a small layout I was always unhappy with. Ive decided to attempt to switch to the smaller scale so I can build something better with the limited space I have/might have soon as Im also looking to buy my first house.

My plan is to keep the HO stuff I use frequently at the local model railroad club, and continue to do that. But for the home layout Ive wanted for years it shall be done in N.

That's interesting. I am a very hard core HO modeler don't plan on quitting that scale because all the layouts and clubs and groups I run with are all HO. Although I am often jealous of all the variety N scallers get especially for high speed trains and amtrak for cheaper prices.

 

I have a little bit of Kato N scale viaducts and track and a couple of 4 car shinkansens in N scale that I hardly ever use. but, I've always thought about getting more N scale concrete slab track and viaducts. Ive always wanted to create the fancy elevated flyover junctions seen in China and sometimes Japan but ramps and bridges take up so much room if done in HO. With N-scale I could have a fairly large track and several 16 car consists as well as realistic slab track and elevated station.  Kato Unitrak is all modular based so I can keep it all in a bin and set it up on the floor when I feel like it. Plus I'd be able to get much more variety of high speed trains in Shinkansens and have them be full length and some Chinese EMUs from Kunter. I'd be able to get 3-5 full train sets for the price of one in HO scale as N scale high speed trains have a surprising amount of variety in N scale in Europe.

 

I'd have to buy a lot of Kato track which in total would cost me several hundred dollars. Not to mention is easier to build sky scrapers in Scale. So for all the money I've spent on HO scale maybe quarter of it would get me a large collection of high speed trains in N scale. But at the moment it's unlikely I will do that because I'm already head deep into HO and switching scales would cause me such a massive headache and I'd have to find all new clubs and friends since the ones I have are almost entirely HO.

So in summary the big draw to N Scale for me is 1. price  2. variety in available models (especially for high speed trains)  3. smaller scale means more space to run full consists and wide curves  4. better scaled sky scrapers and structures  5. availability of Slab track, ramps, and viaducts that feel more appropriate for high speed trains. because in HO everything has to be custom built for the most part. But because I've so far deep into collecting high speed trains in HO and all my networks are built around HO it would be really hard and some what upsetting for me to go all in for Nscale.

[shadowtiger25]

5 hours ago, Need for High Speed said:

That's interesting. I am a very hard core HO modeler don't plan on quitting that scale because all the layouts and clubs and groups I run with are all HO. Although I am often jealous of all the variety N scallers get especially for high speed trains and amtrak for cheaper prices.

 

I have a little bit of Kato N scale viaducts and track and a couple of 4 car shinkansens in N scale that I hardly ever use. but, I've always thought about getting more N scale concrete slab track and viaducts. Ive always wanted to create the fancy elevated flyover junctions seen in China and sometimes Japan but ramps and bridges take up so much room if done in HO. With N-scale I could have a fairly large track and several 16 car consists as well as realistic slab track and elevated station.  Kato Unitrak is all modular based so I can keep it all in a bin and set it up on the floor when I feel like it. Plus I'd be able to get much more variety of high speed trains in Shinkansens and have them be full length and some Chinese EMUs from Kunter. I'd be able to get 3-5 full train sets for the price of one in HO scale as N scale high speed trains have a surprising amount of variety in N scale in Europe.

 

I'd have to buy a lot of Kato track which in total would cost me several hundred dollars. Not to mention is easier to build sky scrapers in Scale. So for all the money I've spent on HO scale maybe quarter of it would get me a large collection of high speed trains in N scale. But at the moment it's unlikely I will do that because I'm already head deep into HO and switching scales would cause me such a massive headache and I'd have to find all new clubs and friends since the ones I have are almost entirely HO.

So in summary the big draw to N Scale for me is 1. price  2. variety in available models (especially for high speed trains)  3. smaller scale means more space to run full consists and wide curves  4. better scaled sky scrapers and structures  5. availability of Slab track, ramps, and viaducts that feel more appropriate for high speed trains. because in HO everything has to be custom built for the most part. But because I've so far deep into collecting high speed trains in HO and all my networks are built around HO it would be really hard and some what upsetting for me to go all in for Nscale.

This is why I'm going to do both.

N for home and HO for clubs.

But I need to trim down some of the HO collection I rarely use. I find myself cycling between double head steam Niseko, local C56 organizations, and D51 with seki 3000s at the club.

So I'll have the best of both in my opinion 

Dint get me wrong this transition has been quite difficult for me and I did spiral a bit in to a depressed state...

[Kamome]

I think the availability, volume of product and cost are the main factors to “expand to”  N scale . I think “switch to” is not necessarily true in your case. 

 

I hope you will find N scale rewarding. I moved the other way, N scale was hugely attractive due to the reasons above but it didn’t give me everything I wanted from railway modelling. HO gave me further options and interest that I couldn’t easily replicate in N so both have their merits. 

 

The big hang up for Japanese HO is the limited availability, range of scenic items and the increased cost and space requirement. The models are great but you need a wealth of space to do them justice. 15 coach blue trains snaking through a scene look impressive but who has space for 2m+ trains. Even HO collectors in Japan tend to just hire out a room and layout out some track on tables just to exercise their collection which is not what brings me enjoyment. 

 

You can produce some amazing stuff in Japanese N these days and I hope N fills some of the void that frustrated you with your previous set up. 

[shadowtiger25]

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

I think the availability, volume of product and cost are the main factors to “expand to”  N scale . I think “switch to” is not necessarily true in your case. 

 

I hope you will find N scale rewarding. I moved the other way, N scale was hugely attractive due to the reasons above but it didn’t give me everything I wanted from railway modelling. HO gave me further options and interest that I couldn’t easily replicate in N so both have their merits. 

 

The big hang up for Japanese HO is the limited availability, range of scenic items and the increased cost and space requirement. The models are great but you need a wealth of space to do them justice. 15 coach blue trains snaking through a scene look impressive but who has space for 2m+ trains. Even HO collectors in Japan tend to just hire out a room and layout out some track on tables just to exercise their collection which is not what brings me enjoyment. 

 

You can produce some amazing stuff in Japanese N these days and I hope N fills some of the void that frustrated you with your previous set up. 

The club I'm a part of does have space for that. My double head Niseko is 13 cars long or my D51 with 28 Seki 3000s and they look wonderful on that layout with its (literally) 2 miles of track. But it's in the basement of a large apartment building so there's a massive space down there for it.

At home I'd have either a spare bed room or maybe a small basement if I get lucky on this fixer upper house I'm looking at.

 

Edit. Btw saying switch too makes me feel better about dropping a bunch of money in to it so quickly... also I am trying to sell off a few unused HO trains so meh.  

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by shadowtiger25

[shadowtiger25]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:37 PM, cteno4 said:

Yeah I’m always jealous of the detail in HO, but then I realized that to do great detail you have to do it everywhere or it’s really noticeable when the detail is not there to the eye! N scale let’s you cheat some and I also really enjoy playing with the kids eye in N scale where you can add some details that ping the minds eye into filling in details not there from the viewer’s visual memory. They walk away thinking they saw more detail than was actually there!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

Please point me to some of those tricks as I want to utilize them. I unfortunately have eagle eyes and I've developed in to a crazy person, I mean fine scale modeler. 

So anything that I can get away with cheating on and having still look good is kind of a win for my laziness 

[cteno4]

It’s mainly about just doing enough detail bits to set a scene and then let the minds eye fill in the rest from the viewer’s visual memory. It’s also about consistency across the layout as the eye gets caught on the things left undone or overdone. If you look at a lot of the n scale layouts folks are presenting on the forum you’ll see the balance. Really small details can be achieved, but doing at a layout level could get daunting and the vast majority of it wont be seen more than a foot away. You can design the layout so that the scenes and bits that could be done in really fine scale could be right up front where you could get close enough to see the details and then relax the detailing as you move further back from the edge.

 

plenty of room to be a fine scale modeler in n scale. I have a 1/144 miniaturist friend who makes awesome scratch built structures and interior room scenes to super high level of detail. But if you go that far down the rabbit hole it could take you years and years to detail out 50, 100, or more structures a small sized n scale layout could have. It will take some experimenting on your part to see what level of detail will set scenes well enough for your eye but will be achievable with the time you can put in and how much laziness kicks in! I’d suggest just getting some various structure kits and playing with just doing some little diorama scenes or Ttrak modules to get the hang of n scale, play around, and re-tune your modeling to half scale of what you were use to. Stuff you like you can always just transplant into your eventual layout or have some Ttrak modules to play with others.
 

Also maybe get a very rough idea of your main track plan and get that Unitrak and just set it up and play with it and try fiddling with ideas. Again with 4x the scale area now play with your track plan options change. It will also help you determine what max grades you are comfortable with with your trains if you are planning on grades. Also gives you a visual idea of mix of track and structure and scenery. You can mock up structures with cardboard or simple pdf printed buildings taped together and hills with crumpled news paper and masking tape. Roads with paper strips. It lets you find a happy balance of track, scenery, roads and structures. Play line this is good, especially now that you are in a new scale.

 

but I think you will have fun, as Japan’s n scale is a lot more affordable and huge variety of trains and structures available.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[GregT]

After 40 years of dabbling with prototype HO scale modeling, I took up N scale this past year myself, and find it incredibly rewarding.  I do some summer time garden 7/8's as well.  Kato, Tomix... etc.  So many great, and affordable options in N scale.   With N, I opted to not go strict prototype.  That has been incredibly liberating for me.  I also agree with what Jeff said above.  Focusing on the over-all effect and letting the eye fill in the detail, instead of capturing every detail, has also been a welcome surprise as I learn how to model in this scale. 

 

Happy modeling and share your efforts.

Greg

[Giugiaro]

Since I came to public as a model rail collector that I came to learn that there are plenty of H0 collectors that are, in fact, closet N scale modellers.

While H0 has the variety of Iberian models that N doesn't have (and looks awesome in big module exhibitions), N is definitively the scale to go at home.

 

Unfortunately age takes a toll on our sight and dexterity, and I've also seem some legendary closet N scale modellers giving up on N as they age.

They end up making the change back to domestic H0 as they go to retirement.

This is how I was able to get some really nice and well-taken-care-off N scale models. It almost feels like receiving the olympic torch.