'Unnamed Kato Build #1'

[Dashworth87]

Hi Guys.

 

I did briefly consider starting by commenting in the new users section but pictures paint a thousand words etc.

 

My name is Dan and I am a long time modeller/painter. I had an 00 Hornby set over 20 years ago built by my father which eventually disappeared to who knows where! following on from 00, I briefly dabbled with Graham Farish and Peco before returning to my main hobby of painting toy soldiers and rolling dice....  Anyway after looking at ways to butcher the green overhead station (23-200) into multiple overhead stations... here I am! 

 

Following on from my brief introduction, at the ripe old age of 36, I am currently working on a 12'x4' dog bone layout in double track with the intention of adding a smaller 'commuter/city hopper' line for a bit more interest and for an excuse to use some Diesel/electric freight engines for my build along with the associated rolling stock. It will all be based on Japanese Rail East Rolling stock and Locomotives as I think the scenery in that part of Japan is very rich and gives ample modelling opportunities. 

Most, if not all of the build is from the second hand market however I'm slowing sussing out the best places to buy things from and have a list of wants vs needs for the build.

 

The idea currently is for the irregular figure of eight track to run either two Shinkansen on, with a third in a passing loop hidden from the front of the build so I can potentially alternate between Shinkansen and/or other express trains running on the double track.

In addition to the double track, whist It isn't shown in the photos, my intention is to run a smaller single track as well. This will weave in and out, over and under the double track and add the 'interest' so to speak whilst the other trains just fly round at full speed.

 

Sadly, due to space constraints, the only feasible location I can set the whole board up is in the living room when the wife is at work 😀 so with the photos below, the idea is that the centre 2x4 can be removed when the whole setup is not required and the two outer sections joined together to make a smaller 8x4 which can be used in my hobby room at the bottom of the garden come rain or shine.

 

anyway... today was building the base boards which have been made out of 6mm Plywood and battened underneath. Whilst the missus was working today and I had the afternoon off, I was able to mock up where the figure of eight will sit and provided me with an idea of how large I can make the station in the centre 2x4.

The layout will be over multiple levels using extruded foam to provide a base for the track with Plywood at either ends of the joining sections so I can get it lined up and have something to connect the ends of the track to using the brass screw/solder method to make sure they don't move about. It will also give me ample grounding for the Joiners dowels to make sure the layout connects together correctly each and every time.

 

Comments and criticism is more than welcome! I'm learning as I go with this stuff but its certainly a lot of fun! I just had no idea how much of a headache planning a layout would be!!!!

[katoftw]

Track is too close to the edge. One bump and you got a train falling to the floor.

 

Also better to use the variable length track pieces to link larger modules as it allows for some movement.

[Beaver]

23 minutes ago, katoftw said:

Track is too close to the edge. One bump and you got a train falling to the floor.

 

Yes, but there looks to be room enough to fit a safety barrier rather than changing the track. Either clear perspex to keep the visibility, or make it solid and disguise it as a retaining wall or one of those high concrete barriers used to reduce noise pollution.

 

EDIT: actually looks like it would be a good idea to run said perspex barrier all the way round the edge, to keep the dog off, and protect against accidental knocks to the scenery by other users of the room.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Beaver

[cteno4]

Welcome Dan, glad you found us!

 

Your layout looks like great fun! Like your sectional approach, we have used it on our club layouts to great success. Love the expansion piece. Having it all sectional helps you avoid Murphy’s first law of layouts, if you build a layout nailed to the wall you will have to move just about when the layout starts looking good! Construction looks great.

 

tracks near the edge isn’t that horrible of a prospect. We have had this on club show layouts and worried about trains going over. We made little 4cm high clear plex panels to put along the edges to prevent this and keep fingers off the trains. But with time we got tired of putting them in and they got in the way of photography so we ran a lot without them and never had a train go over the edge. So it ended up being a non issue. I’ve set up a lot of temp setups at home and lived dangerously at the edge and never had one go over the edge.

 

If you have a good base to support the modules and a tiny overhang of the track you don’t need expansion tracks. They can be cantankerous for some trains, especially if used right out of turn. We stopped using them early on just for variable spacing as they could be problematic and more trouble than they were worth. Our sectional layout worked fine with the tiniest of track overhang and just let the unijoiners hold the sections together. Dowel method works great for lining everything up modules, just make sure to drill thru both boards clamped together to make perfect alignment and mark things well for orientation. We used this on our last two sectional layout and track connected well. Last one we used binder clips to hold modules tight together, simple and fast, but it was only 24mm of wood total. Bolts work fine but are tedious if you are breaking down/setting up a lot. Ttrak works just fine with unijoiners doing all the physical connections.

 

Might look at motorcycle connectors to have removable connections between sections, they are multiple electrical connectors (like up to 24) in one plug connector that are very robust and inexpensive. Used in autos and motorcycles a lot.

 

what is your support structure for the modules?

 

looking forward to seeing this progress! Keep us posted.

 

jeff

[Dashworth87]

8 hours ago, katoftw said:

Track is too close to the edge. One bump and you got a train falling to the floor.

 

Also better to use the variable length track pieces to link larger modules as it allows for some movement.

 

My plan is once I have added height to the layout and spent a good few hours testing to make sure it all runs successfully, there will be 3/5mm Ply around the edges of the board to contain the layout and add structure to large raised areas at the back of the layout. I will likely add this to pre-empt any derailments at the extreme left and right of the build and make it slightly larger than required to prevent any trains shooting off at then sides. Thank you for the feedback.

 

7 hours ago, Beaver said:

 

Yes, but there looks to be room enough to fit a safety barrier rather than changing the track. Either clear perspex to keep the visibility, or make it solid and disguise it as a retaining wall or one of those high concrete barriers used to reduce noise pollution.

 

EDIT: actually looks like it would be a good idea to run said perspex barrier all the way round the edge, to keep the dog off, and protect against accidental knocks to the scenery by other users of the room.

 

Perspex is quite a nice idea, however I will likely stick with my above intention and build a small lip using ply that can be disguised as scenery. The dog is only about during the base board building project. I assure you when it all starts getting glued down and built up, he'll be outside or it will be high enough that he wont be able to get at it!

 

Thank you for the feedback!

[Dashworth87]

7 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Welcome Dan, glad you found us!

 

Your layout looks like great fun! Like your sectional approach, we have used it on our club layouts to great success. Love the expansion piece. Having it all sectional helps you avoid Murphy’s first law of layouts, if you build a layout nailed to the wall you will have to move just about when the layout starts looking good! Construction looks great.

 

tracks near the edge isn’t that horrible of a prospect. We have had this on club show layouts and worried about trains going over. We made little 4cm high clear plex panels to put along the edges to prevent this and keep fingers off the trains. But with time we got tired of putting them in and they got in the way of photography so we ran a lot without them and never had a train go over the edge. So it ended up being a non issue. I’ve set up a lot of temp setups at home and lived dangerously at the edge and never had one go over the edge.

 

If you have a good base to support the modules and a tiny overhang of the track you don’t need expansion tracks. They can be cantankerous for some trains, especially if used right out of turn. We stopped using them early on just for variable spacing as they could be problematic and more trouble than they were worth. Our sectional layout worked fine with the tiniest of track overhang and just let the unijoiners hold the sections together. Dowel method works great for lining everything up modules, just make sure to drill thru both boards clamped together to make perfect alignment and mark things well for orientation. We used this on our last two sectional layout and track connected well. Last one we used binder clips to hold modules tight together, simple and fast, but it was only 24mm of wood total. Bolts work fine but are tedious if you are breaking down/setting up a lot. Ttrak works just fine with unijoiners doing all the physical connections.

 

Might look at motorcycle connectors to have removable connections between sections, they are multiple electrical connectors (like up to 24) in one plug connector that are very robust and inexpensive. Used in autos and motorcycles a lot.

 

what is your support structure for the modules?

 

looking forward to seeing this progress! Keep us posted.

 

jeff

 

Morning Jeff, as I have mentioned above to the other contributors, I will likely use thin ply to add to the extreme outer edges of the build, I plan to have a hill/mountain(s) at the rear so will likely use ply at the back of the raised area to add strength to the build. If needs be, I can add 10/20mm extra along the sides in addition to the height of the scenery to ensure the trains don't disappear. it wont take too much from the piece either and the trains will remain the central focus. 

 

It might be worth adding as well that all of the corners on the build are using Kato's banked corners (which were a nightmare to get right) so even when the train in travelling at some speed, it is always turning into the board and far more likely to fall toward the board if there are any accidents!

In respect of 'overhangs', thankfully I think that comes down to my poor photography more than anything else. both ovals fit perfectly on their respective 4x4's, the only overhand is on the 2x4 section which is separate and as mentioned in my earlier comment, my intention is to trim the track and then secure it down using screws and solder.

 

I completely agree though that trains can be very 'choosey' about which track they want to run on and which tracks they don't! Between a Hayabusa Shinkansen and an old '86 electric freightliner I have, there will be plenty of testing with both of the fussy Bas**ds!  

 

Lastly, in terms of the sectional board, the majority of the turnouts will be in the central section and therefore very little wiring required if the two outer boards are joined. I will likely sent power to the track x3 on each side (6 in total) , either by way of soldering wires to the track itself or using the genuine Kato powered track pieces and then have a 3/1 splitter for both sides feeding to 2 controllers for independent analogue control of both trains. 

Similarly, I will run a similar amount of power to the previously mentioned commuter line to connect up to a third controller. The fun is going to be getting the wiring correct for the sidings on the centre sectional so it all works correctly in analogue so that trains can be stored whilst others can go about the track!

 

thanks for taking an interest in the build! the sidings/turnouts and station splitter arrives today so keen to update more photo of the centre section with the yard and line mocked together.

 

 

[cteno4]

Dan,

 

yeah I don’t think track near the edge is a worry. In over 25 years I’ve never run a train off the edge and I’ve put track right up near it. The plex is a pain and just ruins the view. We have only had one train in the club go on the floor and that was due to a stalled train in the big shinkansen yard. The operator had the power pack going the wrong direction and throttle cranked up and tapped the train and it shot off towards the stub end and got enough momentum and all wheel pickup to run the train off the end of the table. Happened so fast the chap didn’t have time to shut off the throttle. Shinkansen couplings we’re strong enough to drag a lot of the train over. Amazingly little damage to the train! This did lead to the installation of a deadman’s switch to the yard power feed!

 

sldering your power to the bottom of the rails works well. Just rototool a slot thru the roadbed right under the track. Tin the bottom of the track and the wire the fuse solder then together. If you want ultra secure drop a dollop of epoxy over it. All hidden and you can use heavier gauge wire.

 

Yeah it’s worth the testing before things are fixed down and keep track simple and clean where you can. For the first 5 years of our club here we did all build on the fly display layouts with Unitrak on top of portable modules like yours. It was great as we could evolve out problem track pieces and situations (like the expansion tracks) so when we went to a sectional nailed down layout we had relatively few track/train fussiness.

 

what are all your modules supported by?

 

great work!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Dashworth87]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

Dan,

 

yeah I don’t think track near the edge is a worry. In over 25 years I’ve never run a train off the edge and I’ve put track right up near it. The plex is a pain and just ruins the view. We have only had one train in the club go on the floor and that was due to a stalled train in the big shinkansen yard. The operator had the power pack going the wrong direction and throttle cranked up and tapped the train and it shot off towards the stub end and got enough momentum and all wheel pickup to run the train off the end of the table. Happened so fast the chap didn’t have time to shut off the throttle. Shinkansen couplings we’re strong enough to drag a lot of the train over. Amazingly little damage to the train! This did lead to the installation of a deadman’s switch to the yard power feed!

 

sldering your power to the bottom of the rails works well. Just rototool a slot thru the roadbed right under the track. Tin the bottom of the track and the wire the fuse solder then together. If you want ultra secure drop a dollop of epoxy over it. All hidden and you can use heavier gauge wire.

 

Yeah it’s worth the testing before things are fixed down and keep track simple and clean where you can. For the first 5 years of our club here we did all build on the fly display layouts with Unitrak on top of portable modules like yours. It was great as we could evolve out problem track pieces and situations (like the expansion tracks) so when we went to a sectional nailed down layout we had relatively few track/train fussiness.

 

what are all your modules supported by?

 

great work!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

modules are supported by 2x4 strips of pine around the edges and the battened with the same material.

 

The V15 and V4 sets arrived today so I’ve mocked up what the centre section will look like.

 

if I’m honest, I feel like another 2x4’ is required to get the most out of the V4 and V15 set only because I get the feeling to fit it all on, my station is going to look really pokey 😂

 

do you know off hand how long the 23-200 series station platforms are going to be? Certainly not long enough for a 10 coach long Shinkansen without increasing the length of the centre section. 😭

seriously! Those sidings wouldn’t catch a cold, let alone a decent amount of rolling stock. FML 😂

 

I hate that I’m considering an additional 2x4… what’s wrong with me 😂😂😂😂

Edited January 27, 2023 by Dashworth87

[MeTheSwede]

A nice thing with modular, is that it's possible to expand later on.

 

Or not to expand later on.  Yesterday I was track cleaning and cursed myself about the amount of track I have. 😅

 

 

[Dashworth87]

11 minutes ago, MeTheSwede said:

A nice thing with modular, is that it's possible to expand later on.

 

Or not to expand later on.  Yesterday I was track cleaning and cursed myself about the amount of track I have. 😅

 

 

hey dude! Was gong through your thread this morning! What a build. Nice to know I’m not the only self professed amateur going and just ‘blagging’ it 😂

 

My Mai. Concern at the moment isn’t the size of the build (even though the wife will likely kill me if I add an additional board) it’s the cost of man man wood In the UK. 6mm ply is almost £15 for a sheet of 2x4!…

 

I mean, if I’m going stead at 12’, then I can always go to 16’ right? 😂😂😂

 

I might need to build a larger hobby room at the bottom of the garden 😂

[cteno4]

Uh oh, beginning of the end when you start planning additions to the house for your layout! Downside of a sectional layout is you can too easily expand!

 

yes wood prices are still skyrocketing. I went to buy a small piece of premium, clear dimensional lumber to make a specialized bridge Ttrak module for a club member the other day and I was shocked at the price! $9 for a 1/4”x4”x4’ piece of clear poplar! Poplar!

 

sorry wasn’t making my self clear there, I was curious what all your modules sit on (some sort of legs or cabinets?) to hold them up.

 

 

[Kamome]

5 hours ago, Dashworth87 said:

 

do you know off hand how long the 23-200 series station platforms are going to be?

The platform lengths are generally 248mm per section to match the unitrack straights.  The ones that fit under this overhead station and its more modern cousin 23-122 use these length sections.

 

The end pieces vary in length. The short ones I got with the older (non lighting) urban platforms are 55mm for the platform with a 70mm length footprint. The longer urban ends are 180mm platforms with a total footprint of 199mm

 

The grey curved platform ends (23-205) are the longest Kato platforms you can use when using the #4 points feeding into a two-sided station. Essentially you use a #4, then have a 128mm straight (2x64mm sections) finishing with a R481-15 degree curve.

 

 

[Dashworth87]

10 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Uh oh, beginning of the end when you start planning additions to the house for your layout! Downside of a sectional layout is you can too easily expand!

 

yes wood prices are still skyrocketing. I went to buy a small piece of premium, clear dimensional lumber to make a specialized bridge Ttrak module for a club member the other day and I was shocked at the price! $9 for a 1/4”x4”x4’ piece of clear poplar! Poplar!

 

sorry wasn’t making my self clear there, I was curious what all your modules sit on (some sort of legs or cabinets?) to hold them up.

 

 

currently as it’s still in the planning stages, it’s just propped up on some coffee tables but will eventually be trestle tables when it becomes more permenant

 

dan 

[Dashworth87]

6 hours ago, Kamome said:

The platform lengths are generally 248mm per section to match the unitrack straights.  The ones that fit under this overhead station and its more modern cousin 23-122 use these length sections.

 

The end pieces vary in length. The short ones I got with the older (non lighting) urban platforms are 55mm for the platform with a 70mm length footprint. The longer urban ends are 180mm platforms with a total footprint of 199mm

 

The grey curved platform ends (23-205) are the longest Kato platforms you can use when using the #4 points feeding into a two-sided station. Essentially you use a #4, then have a 128mm straight (2x64mm sections) finishing with a R481-15 degree curve.

 

 

cant tell you how helpful that is mate! Thank you!

 

Dan.

[Dashworth87]

So as previously mentioned, I didn't think that the singular 2x4 was Long enough to fit a station on it of any significant length. When the V15 arrived and I put it together, the whole station would have been only 2 platforms Long and would have looked really silly with either the Commuter or the Shinkansen at full length.

 

Anyway, after doing all the bits I needed to get done around the house, I went to B and Q and bought another 6mm ply 2x4. I still had plenty of wood left to batten the sheet so got that done and took it down to the 'hobby shed' at the bottom of the garden.

 

After about an hour of moving bits around and checking all the various boxes of track I have, I have managed to get everything set up and got to a point where I am happy with where everything is on the boards.

 

The only negative at the moment is that there are now a lot of joins that need to be made between the boards. something I am not looking forward to, not so much the wiring but just making sure that none of the tracks cause any derailment issues.

 

Anyway, for clarity - 

 

The furthest most Double track at the back of the board is the reverse loop of the double track dogbone.

The track in front is the double track with V15 splitter for the station and the front of the double track dogbone

The track in front of that with the V4 passing loop with be the commuter/freight line so will also have a station present. 

The line at the extreme front of the board will be the return loop for the above to give a lovely nice long straight and tons and tons of modelling oppotunities!

[Dashworth87]

Bit of progress this afternoon. 

 

Ordered some Joiners Dowelling which arrived this morning whilst I was out with the dog. Hadn't planned on doing any modelling today as I wasn't expecting them to arrive until early next week.

Anyway... Popped to B and Q to get another sheet of 5mm ply for the ends of the sectional pieces. The idea being that each section will line up with each other, irrespective of one or both middle boards not being part of the layout. 

 

The chap at B and Q very kindly cut the 2x4 piece of plying into 6 equal sections for me to be able to then clamp them together and cut 4 holes at the bottom where they will hopefully all line up when the are attached to the corresponding boards.

 

Anyway. more photos of my board building handwork - Haven't taken the jigsaw to them yet as I don't think the blade I have fitted is long enough. I am NOT doing it by hand though because that's why god invented power tools. The M10 bolts are currently in there to assist in holding it all together whilst I cut them out.

 

Also @Kamome I use the #4 turnouts as you suggested with the  R481-15 curve feeding into the straight so that I would be able to have another station platform the other side of the doubletrack. Did you have to cut/alter anything to make it fit? I used all the pieces you suggested and had to cut about 15mm off a large straight section to get it all to fit together.

Thankfully it runs wonderfully with my EF70 which tends to be one of my more fussy locos so its given me the confidence to get the rest of the track cut where it needs to be to get the build moving forward.

 

 

[Kamome]

8 hours ago, Dashworth87 said:

I use the #4 turnouts as you suggested with the  R481-15 curve feeding into the straight so that I would be able to have another station platform the other side of the doubletrack. Did you have to cut/alter anything to make it fit? I used all the pieces you suggested and had to cut about 15mm off a large straight section to get it all to fit together.

You shouldn’t have to cut anything, although there are 2 types of these curved ends. These are the 23-105 which come in a dual pack. The length of the footprint is 248mm and should fit the unit rack geometry perfectly.

 

The 60mm piece comes with the #4 points and has the trimmed roadbed to allow for the diverging track.