Passenger Operations

[DenshaTen]

Hi all,

 

I've been doing a lot of research about model railways and one thing I often see is talk of operations and switching/shunting - mainly on American model railways.

 

Just curious as to whether anything similar is done with Japanese passenger trains? Or perhaps people are just happy see their trains drive through some nice scenery.

 

If anyone does partake in this sort of thing how do they go about it? One thing I've considered was running a normal loop with a large station on it and a seperate single line that runs off of it with one or two small local stations. That would provide a few opportunities for multiple trains and multiple stops but the space it would take up would probably be too much.

 

Interested to hear people's thoughts.

[bikkuri bahn]

I don't model n gauge, but the scale provides opportunities (given you have the space) to model Japanese passenger operations prototypically, such as running to a timetable, having local and express trains w/ simulated cross platform transfers, and something I would like to do, is having terminating services at a intermediate station, with pocket tracks (or a middle road station, like you see on the Seibu Shinjuku Line or the soon to be opened Tokyu Shin-Yokohama station). I have yet to see anyone do this on their layout (not to say some have done so). Of course, breaking up a consist with a portion going off on a branch line is common too.

(Prototype) operations at Kami-Shakuji station on the Seibu Shinjuku Line:

 

[bill937ca]

You don't find shunting, but you do find direct operation with as many as half a dozen lines using a single main line.  The new Sotetsu/Tokyu Shin Yokohama Line connection is an example with seven railways running trains in fourteen different directions.  There may only be a few trains (2-6) an hour for a particular destination but over an hour but the line be as busy as any other Tokyo main line.

 

Usually when a new connection is made, new dedicated rolling stock is added for the new line by the participating railway companies. Sotetsu added  six ten-car trains for services the Sōtetsu Shin-Yokohama Line service. 

 

Japanese Wikipedia Direct Operation article   https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/直通運転

 

Mintetsu (Japan Railway Association) Mutual Through Service article  https://www.mintetsu.or.jp/knowledge/term/16403.html#:~:text=都心や副都心へ,などが図られます。

 

Railvolutions article on the Sotetsu/Tokyu Shin Yokohama Line here

https://www.railvolution.net/news/further-railway-interconnection-in-great-tokyo-for-a-large-network-of-seven-railways

 

JNS thread on this particular connection.

 

Map of Shin Yokohama and Tokyu Shin Yokohama line connections.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linea_Sotetsu_Shin-Yokohama#/media/File:Sotetsu_Shin_Yokohama_services_scheme.png

Edited December 17, 2022 by bill937ca

[bill937ca]

Direct operation on the Tokyu Toyoko line at Jiyugaoka Station. It is a two track line feeding into a four track station. You will find Tokyu 5050 series, Seibu 6000 series, Tokyo Metro 7000 series, Tokyo Metro 10000 series in this video.  Since then Seibu 40000 and Tobu 50070 have been added to the line.

 

 

[DenshaTen]

Very interesting! Thanks for the information guys

[Nick_Burman]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:15 AM, bill937ca said:

You don't find shunting, but you do find direct operation with as many as half a dozen lines using a single main line.  The new Sotetsu/Tokyu Shin Yokohama Line connection is an example with seven railways running trains in fourteen different directions.  There may only be a few trains (2-6) an hour for a particular destination but over an hour but the line be as busy as any other Tokyo main line.

 

Some railways do practice a measure of shunting in the form of lengthening or shortening trains to accommodate demand. When I visited Japan I traveled via Kintetsu from Nara to Kyoto; while waiting to change trains at Yamato-Saidaiji station I witnessed the arrival of a 6-car Nara-Osaka express which was promptly enlarged to 9 cars to cater for the evening rush. It was a very slick operation - the extra coaches were moving out of the siding to couple even as the front part of the train had not quite ground to a halt at the platform.

 

Cheers Nicholas

 

 

 

[railsquid]

Keikyu do a lot of that at Shinagawa Station, 4-car units being attached to 8 car trains coming from the Asakusa line.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by railsquid

[Cat]

For small branchlline operations, Hitachinaka Seaside Railway operates a small fleet of Kihas in a variety of liveries and wrappings.  Usually a single car will do each run, but 2 or 3 at busy times with cars added or removed at Nakaminato Station.  Even larger consists for very special occasions.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cat

[Nozomi329]

Japanese EMUs involve less shunting or switching comparing to US freight trains, however the empty depot runs are technically part of shunting procedure.

Train separate/combine is indeed common, but I would expect that difficult to reproduce in N scale unless you're using Arnold couplers. As far as I know most Kato close coupling are not designed to be easily disconnected without removing trains from track.

Other than shinkansen, normal main line operation is possible but you either need enough space or shorter trains. Many urban stations are 1~2 km apart, so if you with to reproduce that completely to scale, you will need 6~12m of track, which is still possible. With enough planning it's possible to have a depot, carwash, two or three stations including terminals and overtaking stations, and maybe even a branch fitting in a garage or a full room. And that's saying you're running full 15-car commuter trains of Tokyo standard, if you model other places you can stay with 4~8 cars for less space and less station distance. For rural areas diesel cars with 1 or 2 cars are common.

 

[MeTheSwede]

 

On 12/15/2022 at 10:11 PM, DenshaTen said:

Hi all,

 

I've been doing a lot of research about model railways and one thing I often see is talk of operations and switching/shunting - mainly on American model railways.

 

Just curious as to whether anything similar is done with Japanese passenger trains? Or perhaps people are just happy see their trains drive through some nice scenery.

 

If anyone does partake in this sort of thing how do they go about it? One thing I've considered was running a normal loop with a large station on it and a seperate single line that runs off of it with one or two small local stations. That would provide a few opportunities for multiple trains and multiple stops but the space it would take up would probably be too much.

 

Interested to hear people's thoughts.

 

 

A few thoughts about what type of layout you might be interested in constructing...

 

As you know from reading my Layout building thread, I was also intrigued by the prospect of more complex traffic operations on my layout and solved that by inventing a museum railway which operates old Japanese freight cars for fun.  Now it turned out I wasn't as much into operations as I thought, so I haven't collected as many driving hours as I expected. There are many ways to enjoy a model railway, and it's hard to say what one is going to enjoy before it is tried. 😊 I have however spent quite some time shunting freight cars on my Inglenook type yard. An Inglenook requires very little space, so that might be something to consider if you'd like to try some shunting.

 

The vast majority of Japanese model railroaders are content with watching their trains go round. Few would ever do anything more complicated than navigating from a yard up on a mainline loop and go around a number of laps before parking in the yard again.

 

Your idea of a larger main station on the mainline and a couple of local stations on a local line that branches of from the mainline is very feasable. Actually it doesn't have to take up more space than just a reasonably sized mainline loop does, if you construct scenery in a clever way. A very basic way to do it in a small space would be to put a local line that goes parallell with the mainline, inside of the loop, on the side opposite to the main station. Having the local line go parallell to the main line does of course look rather silly... if the mainline can be seen! But hide the mainline under a mountain side or behind a backdrop, and suddenly the placement of that local line looks natural.

 

Speaking of hiding stuff under a mountain, if you figure out a way to let both ends of your local line end with a tunnel into a mountain, you can have both a point to point line and a loop at the same time. You can either operate it as "train comes from the station at the other side of the mountain ridge, goes to one of your station, proceeds to your next station (and possibly a third) before exiting the layout to go to another off-layout station. But then the starting point and end point are connected out of view, so you have an option to just let the train go round and round when you feel like it.

 

If you use lots of inclines and tunnels there are of course more complicated ways of fitting a lot of distance between stations, but with obvious consequences with regards to construction complexity and scenery limitations...

 

You don't need a lot of distance between stops on a local line with 1 or 2 car trains. As long as there is something that train passes that makes it goes from one scene to another. My local line from the center platform end of Yamahama Central...

 

 

 

to the start of the platform at Yamahama Minami...

 

 

is just 80 centimeter, but during that distance the train passes three switches, then under a road bridge, curving behind some houses through an area with trees before reaching the station straight. Here I find there's plenty of a feel of "travel distance" for a short train even in just 80cm, because it passed several scenic obsticles.

 

 

 

If you want to do operations there are various ways to do "time tables" and such. You can write your time tabels, or you can make them randomly or semi-randomly as you go. I've tested to write cards with operation instructions on them for my layout. For instance let's say you have a layout with a double track mainline loop with a four track hidden staging yard, a local line loop in the middle, a train depot and a small oil depot, like this sketch I've just quickly drawn up now:

 

 

 

For this layout let's assume you've got 5 trains that starts on the numbered hidden staging tracks and 1 spare local train that starts in the Train depot and you draw cards at random implementing them in order drawn, one at a time, like this:
 

 

1. A commuter train (from staging track 3) arrives from WEST and waits at Main Station until another train stops there before going EAST (back to staging track 3).

 

2. An express train (from staging track 2) passes through the Main Station going from WEST to EAST without stopping (going back to track 2).

 

3. A local train arrives from NORTH (from staging track 5) stopping at the Local Station and then stops at the Main Station, or if already at the Main Station it does the opposite.

 

(Card Number 1 now triggers again and the commuter train leaves the layout going EAST.

 

4. A regional train (from staging track 4) arrives from WEST and stops at the Main Station for a time of "2 operations" before proceding EAST.

 

5. An express train (from staging track 2) passes through the Main Station without stopping (going back to track 2).

 

6. A tanker train (from staging track 1) arrives to the Oil Depot, or if it is already at the Oil Depot it departs WEST.

 

(Card Number 4 now triggers again and the regional train proceeds EAST.)

 

7. The local train at the local line goes to the Train Depot changing place with any other local train in the Train Depot.

8. The commuter train makes a stop at the Main Station (if not already there) and then goes to the Train Depot, or if it started at the Train Depot it instead goes to staging.
 

9. A tanker train (from staging track 1) arrives to the Oil Depot, or if it is already at the Oil Depot it departs EAST, but leaves two tanker cars at the Oil Depot.

 

 

And so on...  As you can see it's possible to have plenty of operations even on a purely modern Japanese layout but it functions differently than from a traditional Western freight layout, as on the traditional Western layout you're the engine driver picking up and dropping off cars, here's you're role is more like a train traffic controler.

 

 

[Beaver]

All I can say is, if you want lots of wagons, shunting, slow freight, loco hauled passenger trains being switched about in a Japanese setting is:

 

Turn back time. Carload freight persisted into the 1980s (as did loco hauled passenger, especially on long distance workings such as Blue Trains), so you needn't even turn it back that far. Go back to the 1960s and you have even more varied and intricate traditional railway operations while still being able to buy almost everything off the shelf.

 

Of course if you specifically want modern image then the above will not be very helpful. Sorry.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Space Beaver

[Kamome]

As space beaver said, pretty much all modern image won’t be relevant for loco hauled passenger operations as it pretty much doesn’t exist now. 

 

Blue train or cross country hubs could be of interest in either JNR or early JR era. 

 

JNR Hiroshima - cross country service changed from electric loco to steam. 

EF58 - C62/59

 

Shimonoseki - electric loco change to take the train under the tunnel. EF60/61/65 - EF30/81-300

 

Moji - Another loco change for onward journey through Kyushu. EF30/81-300 - ED73/76

 

Tosu or Oita - Blue train split for coaches to either be stored (Oita - Kagoshima) or split destination. (Tosu - Sasebo/Nagasaki) ED73/76 - DD51/C11 or DF50

 

Other options 

 

JNR or early JR Itaya pass - Mountain scenes on the Ou line with ED78 or EF71 hauled short passenger trains going through the switchbacks. 33, 42 or 50 series coaches. 20 or 24 series for the blue trains. 

 

JNR or early JR Usui Pass. - EMUs and loco hauled being hooked up to twin EF63 banking locos. 

189/489/115 series, Kiha 82s, EF62 hauled blue trains 10,12,14,24 series or freight. 

 

JNR era Sanin Line. Lots of diesel hauled passenger and freight. DD51, DD54, DE10, DF50

[Aleks]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:45 PM, DenshaTen said:

Very interesting! Thanks for the information guys

 

On 12/20/2022 at 4:20 AM, Nick_Burman said:

 

Some railways do practice a measure of shunting in the form of lengthening or shortening trains to accommodate demand. When I visited Japan I traveled via Kintetsu from Nara to Kyoto; while waiting to change trains at Yamato-Saidaiji station I witnessed the arrival of a 6-car Nara-Osaka express which was promptly enlarged to 9 cars to cater for the evening rush. It was a very slick operation - the extra coaches were moving out of the siding to couple even as the front part of the train had not quite ground to a halt at the platform.

 

Cheers Nicholas

 

 

 

 

Some very well known examples of shunting in Japan.

 

1. Komachi service on Akita mini-shinkansen. Komachi (red/white) E6 trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_Shinkansen on JR East start from Tokyo coupled to Hayabusa (teal/white) E5 and run with them to Morioka. Then they separate and go on regular line to Akita, where they commingle with local trains (the local network was converted to 1425mm to run shinkansens). While the Hayabusa continues on to Aomori or Hakodate. This route also looks a bit like a roller coaster, at least from some angles. (Note the view is from a local train, which meets a Komachi at the end of the video).

 

Note that Komachi cars are 40cm narrower than Hayabusa and also ~5-7 meters shorter, so they can operate on smaller radius curves and vertical transitions.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_Shinkansen

 

 

2. Tsubasa service on Yamagata mini-shinkansen - E3 (blue/yellow/white) trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsubasa_(train) run from Tokyo to Fukushima coupled to E5 trains on Yamabiko service, then run separately on local (regular gauge) track to Yamagata. The track is occasionally single track. The entire route (from a local train) can be seen here although I did not see any passing shinkansens (but so much of the route is inside the tunnels):

 

 

3. Narita Express runs 12 cars from Narita to Tokyo Station, then 6 continue to Shinjuku and the other 6 to Ofuna. The split is inside the Tokyo Station, 4th level basement floor. (And some people might say it's difficult to split a train when you operate it in a basement:)).

 

4. Less well known, but nonetheless. Hiroshima local lines are now all running 227 series Red Wing trains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/227_series. These were ordered in sets of 2 or 3 trains, however, they can operate any consist size from 2 to 8 cars as can be seen on Kato's site when they recently commercialized the train via three separate releases, a 2-car set, a 3-car set, and a 6-car set. https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/227kei_0

 

Unfortunately I don't know of any mechanism to split Kato trains automatically. If the connection is in good shape, you can do it in hand without lifting the train, as long as the train is on a straight track, and you can reconnect similarly, but it's a pain to do it every time if you run an automated layout.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Aleks

[katoftw]

I wouldn't refer to any of those as shunting.

[Aleks]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:45 PM, DenshaTen said:

Very interesting! Thanks for the information guys

DenshaTen, what you are interested in is actually what I am doing as well. My first pilot layout is very simple and runs just on a coffee table but I operate it in a way similar to what you suggested ("a normal loop with a large station on it and a seperate single line that runs off of it with one or two small local stations"), just a lot simpler. This has been a success, and I am starting to build a much more complex layout now. I am using DCC technology and iTrain software, but you can get a more basic version of this in DC using TNOS from Tomyx, with some creativity and quite a few limitations https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/necst/5701tnos/).

 

My pilot layout for EMUs is essentially a single track line with 2-track stations at each end, and two short branches, one with a single track station and the other with two tracks (I pretend they are branch lines, but they are really just extra storage tracks). Some more information and photos here 

 

The layout is very simple as I did not want to buy more track and other equipment unless I can prove I can create and run a smaller network. I could easily fit in a double track line and a few more tracks for storage, especially if I did not use the center of the table for a tram operation.

 

I set up 11 different operating schedules for trains to run. The layout operates with up to 2 shinkansen trains (E6 Komachi from JR East, N700S Nozomi from JR Central/JR West), and two EMUs (originally E235 series Yamanote Line train and 223 series Kansai Area train). The longest and most complex schedule provides for 7+ minutes of run time (and then it cycles again), as follows - the concept is there are two shinkansen trains who run their routes as prioritiy, and local trains fit in-between and let shinkansens pass as needed.

 

(at the start, Komachi is in Main Line Extn, Nozomi in Branch Line, E235 in North Station track 1, 223 in South Station track 1 - there is a separate automated sequence to move trains from overnight storage to these tracks)

0:00-0:30 E235 goes from North Station track 1 (terminus) to South Station

0:30-1:00 Komachi goes from Main Line Extn (terminus) to North Station track 1, 223 goes from South Station to North Station track 2

1:00-1:30 Komachi goes from North Station track 1 to South Station

1:30-2:00 Komachi goes from South Station to Branch Line (terminus), 223 goes from North Station track 2 to Main Line Extn

2:00-2:30 Nozomi goes from Branch Line (terminus) to South Station, 223 goes from Main Line Extn to North Station track 1

2:30-3:00 Nozomi goes from South Station to North Station track 2 (terminus), 223 goes from North Station track 1 to Main Line Extn

3:00-3:30 E235 (having let all shinkansens go by) goes from South Station to Branch Line (terminus), 223 goes from Main Line Extn to North Station track 1

(10 seconds break as all trains at their termini, and then it goes in reverse order)

3:40-4:10 E235 goes from Branch Line (terminus) to South Station, 223 goes from North Station track 1 to Main Line Extn

4:10-4:40 Nozomi goes from North Station track 2 (terminus) to South Station, 223 goes from Main Line Extn to North Station track 2

4:40-5:10 Nozomi goes from South Station to Branch Line (terminus), 223 goes from North Station track 1 to Main Line Extn

5:10-5:40 Komachi goes from Branch Line (terminus) to South Station, 223 goes from Main Line Extn to North Station track 2

5:40-6:10 Komachi goes from South Station to North Station track 1

6:10-6:40 Komachi goes from North Station track 1 to Main Line Extn (terminus), 223 goes from North Station track 2 to South Station

6:40-7:10 E235 goes from South Station to North Station track 1 (terminus)

 

Even though there is really just one-block one-track main line, most of the time I operate two different trains. Although I did not bother buying scenery as the goal was to prove it can work, you can also see how a realistic (for the line setup) schedule operates:

 

Komachi shinkansen runs from Main Line Extn station to Branch Line with two intermediate stops (5 seconds each)

Nozomi shinkansen runs from Branch Line to North Station with one intermediate stop (5 seconds)

E235 runs from North Station to Branch Line with one intermediate station (2 minutes 30 seconds, during which it is passed by both shinkansens)

223 runs from South Station to North Station, stops there for 30 seconds, then makes 4 rounds trips from North Station to Main Line Extn while there is no other serivce to there (each stop 10 seconds), then comes back to South Station.

 

I just spent a couple of hours yesterday/today revising my main station track plan for the next layout for my future operating plan... if I can build it, it will be very sophisticated, with a mix of shinkansen, long-distance rapid and local trains, each with their own destinations and schedules.

[Beaver]

On 1/10/2023 at 1:53 AM, Aleks said:

2. Tsubasa service on Yamagata mini-shinkansen - E3 (blue/yellow/white) trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsubasa_(train) run from Tokyo to Fukushima coupled to E5 trains on Yamabiko service, then run separately on local (regular gauge) track to Yamagata. The track is occasionally single track. The entire route (from a local train) can be seen here although I did not see any passing shinkansens (but so much of the route is inside the tunnels):

 

 

 

Dammit Aleks, I did not need you to get me thinking about N gauge too! But it's such a good prototype.....

 

-9mm gauge actually correct.

-Small wayside stations suitable for small layout or modules. Only major stations require real space.

-Some interesting locations such as wayside stations inside avalanche shelters.

-Shortish trains, no more than 6/7 cars (could be fudged to 4/5) and locals as little as 2 cars.

-Trains not too ugly.

-Mix of single and double track.

-Rural scenery with no huge buildings (easier/faster/cheaper to do than a city full of buildings and people).

-Attractive scenery and backgrounds.

-Lots of tunnels and avalanche shelters giving plenty of scenic breaks.

-Modern enough that getting enough info to do an actual recreation of a prototype (rather than my usual freelancing) is easy and can include visiting the actual locations (given a large enough budget).

[Aleks]

4 hours ago, Space Beaver said:

 

Dammit Aleks, I did not need you to get me thinking about N gauge too! But it's such a good prototype.....

 

-9mm gauge actually correct.

-Small wayside stations suitable for small layout or modules. Only major stations require real space.

-Some interesting locations such as wayside stations inside avalanche shelters.

-Shortish trains, no more than 6/7 cars (could be fudged to 4/5) and locals as little as 2 cars.

-Trains not too ugly.

-Mix of single and double track.

-Rural scenery with no huge buildings (easier/faster/cheaper to do than a city full of buildings and people).

-Attractive scenery and backgrounds.

-Lots of tunnels and avalanche shelters giving plenty of scenic breaks.

-Modern enough that getting enough info to do an actual recreation of a prototype (rather than my usual freelancing) is easy and can include visiting the actual locations (given a large enough budget).

 

It is a very interesting route! and so is the Akita route, just departure from the initial station (Morioka), complex trackwork, sharp turn and climb onto the shinkansen level bridge, merge into the shinkansen track while on the bridge, sharp dropdown to get under an auto bridge (what's that slope %?) with a bunch of guys standing on the bridge taking photoes, and continue on along a one track line shared with shinkansen until you actually meet at the end of the video. I actually now want to go there and travel it...