A fictitious layout (wip)

[Petey]

'A Fictitious Layout' sounds a bit fake. Well it is, because I am new to rail modelling and operating, and no idea.

Right from the start I think I have an idea of what to do, to only fall short due to ignorance.

I can see my self taking two steps forward and one step back type of progress. So please bear with me.

 

To start with, my space is limited. Maximum layout can only be 4 x 8 ft, or more accurately 1200 x 2400mm.

I am a tall person with a good reach, however I plan to have the operating station cut into the table, just to make reaching across a bit easier.

From the drawings below, the layout will be against the wall along the back and left edges.

Due to reach, I will avoid having any tracks at both back left and right corners of the layout.

 

I will start building the layout chassis shortly.

 

   

Edited September 15, 2022 by disturbman
all caps

[cteno4]

Petey,

 

could you put wheels on the legs to allow you to pull the layout out from the wall to work on the backside? About 2’ is the max for comfortable working depth to reach for any length of time. While most could maybe reac over about 3’ you would not want to do that for very long or have much accuracy out there.

 

also If the middle indent gets hard on the track plan or daunting build you might think of just a pullout drawer for throttles and/or laptop.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Petey]

Thanks Jeff.

I have considered those things. The space I have is 5.5'.

The alternative, with wheels and 2' clearance is to take 1' of depth out of the layout. Which I now think may be the best solution.

[cteno4]

Wheels are always nice to have! Nicer to keep the depth and just pull the layout out from the wall when you need to work back there. Working in a narrow corridors is a PITA getting in and out and you will find you will then forget things you needed back there! Also need to remember foot room getting around any of the legs or supports.

 

is the frame on your drawings where the walls are?

 

With wheels you can split your side corridor in half and just give yourself access down one side to the back and when running just center it.

 

experiment with a table to see what your minimum shimmy space is and what’s your max comfortable depth to reach and work at your intended layout height, really varies with people.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Petey]

I have considered the human-factor side of it all. The walls are along the back of table and along the left edge. It fits into a corner of the room.

The chair is swivelled, and it takes a 90 deg turn to get in and out.

 

Two foot gap between wall and layout is plenty for me.

 

My main concern will be getting it through the doors (at an angle). To do this the whole layout will be in two sections. The table top will fit snugly, unattached, over the frame/chassis. This has not yet been shown on the drawing. I was only presenting a general overview. My door clearance is just over 740mm... and a sort of standard since most tables are about 29" (737mm) high.

 

[katoftw]

Before building anything else baseboard/s. Trial some layout configurations.

 

900 wide means a maximum of 350mm radi.

 

And if you are gonna make the layout be able to separate in the middle. Then consider more length if space allows.

[Petey]

14 minutes ago, katoftw said:

Before building anything else baseboard/s. Trial some layout configurations.

 

900 wide means a maximum of 350mm radi.

 

And if you are gonna make the layout be able to separate in the middle. Then consider more length if space allows.

I figured I'll trial layout configurations. on paper, after I know exactly what tabletop area I am going to use.

 

Would not, say, a 50mm gap between track centre and table edge, instead of 100mm, be enough for N-gauge?

 

2400mm is my max length size. Though I am not using the whole wall, other bits are in the way.

[cteno4]

Yes always smart to make the layout break down to fit into your housing structure and also fit out. Not doing this will br8ngnthe wrath of Murphy and you will move! Having helped dismantle three layouts that could not come apart gracefully for a move it made me swear to making any layout sectional so it could c9me apart and keep mr Murphy at bay.

 

using wheels so you could get rid of the gap behind could get you some extra width for easier and more robust track planning. 
 

you should be able to go vertical with the layout if you need to take the layout in/out doors.

 

making a base structure your modules can just sit on is usually easier than making beefie modules that can bolt together and self support with legs. Base structure can be made so it comes apart easily to get in and out. 
 

again wheels are always your friend!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[katoftw]

Yeah sorry. 400 radi max. 50 + 400 + 400 + 50 = 900.

 

The max radi you probably use is C354 or R348 Tomix vs Kato. Which is why I had 350 on the brain.

 

Bigger radi corners means shorter straights. So just a balancing act. You should get a 1600-1700 long straight depending on your prefences.

 

---

 

What product of tracks you gonna use?

 

What length trains do you wanna run?

[Petey]

14 minutes ago, katoftw said:

...

What product of tracks you gonna use?

 

What length trains do you wanna run?

Not sure about the tracks. Perhaps Peco.

 

Train lengths will be short; e.g., 1 electric and 3 passenger.  The longest being 1 diesel and 4-6 freight (to start of with).

I guess it depends how much I am going to like the strategical and tactical operations of moving cars around the place.

[Petey]

I could not compromise my original design for a smaller layout, so I had some drastic changes done to make more space.

However, I took on the good advice (thanks), altered the plans a little, and added wheels for easier accessibility.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Petey

[beakaboy]

46 minutes ago, Petey said:

I could not compromise my original design for a smaller layout, so I had some drastic changes done to make more space.

However, I took on the good advice (thanks), altered the plans a little, and added wheels for easier accessibility.

 

 

I'm just going to throw my opinion in here and I know you are limited by space, etc, but model railways always look more realistic if track dosen't follow the edge of modules , layouts. Generally, I find that most people, myself included, want to fill the area with track and then realise scenery won't work. After many layout builds, my present TT scale layout is being built using modules that bolt together (1200mm x 600mm) and single track mainline with passing sidings. Mind you its taken me 40+ years to get to this stage. lol.

[cteno4]

Looks good. Use swivel wheels on all wheel locations as in tighter spaces you need to wiggle around some and having fixed wheels on one side ends up being a lot of in and out movements.

 

on your top modules make sure to have a 30cm grid of your 30x12mm inside the top frame that will support the top and sit on your rolling support frame. This will keep the 10mm top from sagging and reduce drumming noise.

 

looks like you got the base to a size that can go thru doorways on its side. Good to split the top from the base.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[JR East]

May I suggest to put adjustable & blockable wheels instead of standard wheels ? So that you can (a bit) adjust the height as the comfort sometimes depends on a couple of centimeters and autoblocking is really comfortable too. I was thinking of something like that : 

 

[Petey]

11 hours ago, beakaboy said:

I'm just going to throw my opinion in here and I know you are limited by space, etc, but model railways always look more realistic if track dosen't follow the edge of modules , layouts. Generally, I find that most people, myself included, want to fill the area with track and then realise scenery won't work. After many layout builds, my present TT scale layout is being built using modules that bolt together (1200mm x 600mm) and single track mainline with passing sidings. Mind you its taken me 40+ years to get to this stage. lol.

Thanks for the tip and consideration. My hidden concern is that I don't have 40 years, more like only a few. So I hope to get in a few years of creative fun and play while I can.

[Petey]

8 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Looks good. Use swivel wheels on all wheel locations as in tighter spaces you need to wiggle around some and having fixed wheels on one side ends up being a lot of in and out movements.

 

on your top modules make sure to have a 30cm grid of your 30x12mm inside the top frame that will support the top and sit on your rolling support frame. This will keep the 10mm top from sagging and reduce drumming noise.

 

looks like you got the base to a size that can go thru doorways on its side. Good to split the top from the base.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

Yes, I have not yet drawn the underside layout yet. I plan to use 30 x 12mm hardwood (Tasmanian Oak) instead of the plywood, just for extra stiffness. They will align with and rest on the framing braces etc. Good job in seeing that.

 

What I always liked in personal furniture design, such as work tables and test benches is the surround feel of a niche. It pulls me in, and makes me feel more apart of what I am doing there. This is what I want from this display when I get the chance to play with it.

 

Thanks for the heads up about the free turning wheels. I'll buy another two more.

[cteno4]

Yeah the shopping and tool cart with rear wheels fixed works well for when you are rolling around a lot on long paths, but in tight spaces they don’t work well. The front two being locking is good idea as well and can’t hurt o have them all locking as if you are in a tight space working leaning in you will end up pushing on the layout. On the sides you could just push it again the wall to stop but working in the back it will want to roll out on you.

 

Ply is actually really stiff on its end when glued onto a surface like this. But some nice hardwood will be great. I use the Baltic birch 7 and 9 ply material and it’s super strong on end like this and so little warping with time and humidity changes. Super stable stuff. Solid hard and soft woods here in the us these days are so unpredictable on warping, and getting good stuff is soooo expensive. I find the ripped Baltic birch ply ends up about the same cost as most precut cheap solid wood stock and is much more sturdy and true, I don’t buy any dimensional lumber anymore except for some very good clear pine or poplar larger stoc to rip down for special pieces. Rest is all ripped up 12-20mm Baltic birch ply.

 

would be nice to mesh to your base and top support grids but not critical as you’ll have plenty of intersect points on the two grids to support it well. But lining it up will make it a bit easier to wire stuff. Remember to predrill some holes ever 6” or so on your module grid stock to run wires thru before you assemble it. If you have the tools and skill, using half lap joints on your grid intersections makes for a super strong supports (think wine box insert with joint notches cut half way thru that interlock). Sorry you may know all this stuff already, just putting it out there.

 

might think of having the top module in 2 or 3 sub modules that just bolt together. Few extra bits of wood, but usually easier to make stuff more exacting when in smaller parts that a big chunk. I’ve built a number of layouts like this for friends and the bigger the sections the more construction and schlepping around issues and the less flexibility if you decide to change something. Your whole top module is about the max for a couple of people to manage. If you ever do move a distance it may be easier to break the layout into chunks as well (but that then means aligning track to breaks some, but you can always just slice tracks at break points and re solder together later).

 

I like your idea of sitting inside the layout like this, brings you into the action more. I’ve never liked the big long straight edge as being the interface between the user and the layout. Curves are the ultimate to make a smooth transition, but a bitch to construct! Corners and straight lines really trip up our minds eye into melding into the model scene.

will be fun to watch it appear!

 

you’ve done great planning here and it should really be a nice little satisfying layout to play with!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Petey]

@cteno4, thanks for your input. Come to think of it, I usually cut a 5mm joint into the framing timber. It's been awhile since I used the stuff. I won't change the drawings to suit the joints. Knowing the outside measurements of the whole framework will guide me to alter things as I proceed. You know the old rule, 'measure thrice, check twice and cut once'.

[cteno4]

For the internal grid intersect points it’s the cross lap joint that works super well

 

https://craftsmanprotools.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/cross-lap-woodworking-joint.jpg

 

dado joints are great to add to mesh the internal grid to the outside frame, but not as necessary as using the cross laps on the grid. But dados do add a lot of strength to the joint, especially latterly and anti wrack support. Just means though you need be very precise on your dado notches with an internal grid locked together with cross laps. For layouts I’m usually lazy and don’t do dados into the frame as with top layer glued and pin nailed down and a cross lapped internal grid, it’s really a very solid. If it were a bench to sit on or visible joinery, then I would do the dados!

 

https://baileylineroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/tight_dado.jpg

 

I do so love joinery!

 

jeff

[Petey]

I have come to the end of my plans. They have been updated to include 10mm slots for all the joints.

Have ordered the timber, but due to short supplies at the moment it will take a few weeks to arrive.

 

I included an extra two receptacles for inserting structural modules, as suggested by this sketch...

 

The updated plans...

 

[Petey]

Previously bought some plumbing material for the modular structures.

This became the starting point for measuring and planning the structures themselves.

 

 

Have ordered the clear acrylic dome (600mm in diameter).

My order only has a 10mm flange, not as shown by website photo...

 

The idea of the domed structure:

 

The plans so far:

 

 

[Petey]

Planning to make the three circular receptacles as a means to insert and plug-in various modular structures to the layout. They can be of any height and size from ground level dioramas on a disc, or as large as I dare with the 600mm dome tower. My objective is to minimize altering the structures on the layout itself, yet being able to change the theme as I wish via the modules.

 

The modules simply slip into the receptacles and any wiring, or other, from the modules get plugged into whatever controls the module. There will be four aligning screws, if need be, to square the structures into place.

 

Last night I played with a few modular ideas. The possibilities are endless.

 

[cteno4]

My favorite dome.

 

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48250873087_3f973cfd60_b.jpg

 

one of my top favorite movies. My design partner had a scab labor job in design school making the bottom sides of the domes for a small Hollywood model company. They cut up like 300 tamiya tank models for the bits and pieces to glue on. Later also used on the Death Star, apparently tamiya tank models make nice strange detail bits…

 

jeff

[Petey]

Reminds me of that movie Silent Running. That movie (circa. 1972) blew me away in terms of technology in both hardware and software.

 

I thought about those under-bits, but decided to keep it clean, like with architecture. My thinking is, that structures in space, with no air resistance, can afford to have bits hanging of it. Generally, in sci-fi modelling, of space structures, we humans think that those bits and pieces, means that it's a complicated piece of machinery; and that is exactly what movie guys want to portray. As my drill sergeant used to say about correcting drill movements with another drill movement, "B.S. baffles brains".

 

In my case I prefer the complex bits to be on the inside, and the simple bits on the outside. That is, to minimise outside distractions so as to invite a closer inspection, and then be surprised with what you see. 

[Petey]

Found out today, from the local hardware, that the timber and boards will be arriving next Tuesday. While I was there, I replaced two fixed coaster wheels for another two swivel ones.

 

Determining how much timber I needed, and how to cut the 6m lengths with little waste. I added about 5mm to each piece to allow for cut.

In all I need six lengths of 35 x 70mm x 6m of structural pine.

1. 6m - 2.4m -(4 x 0.8m) - (2 x 0.135m) = 0.13m leftover (LO).
2. 6m - 2.4m - (3 x 1.14m) = 0.18m LO.
3. 6m - (4 x 1.13m) - (2 x 0.645m) = 0.19m LO.
4. 6m - (6 x 0.83m) - (4 x 0.08m) - 0.75m = 0.03m LO.
5. 6m - (6 x 0.645m) - (3 x 0.57m) - 0.08m = 0.34m LO.
6. 6m - (3 x 0.75m) - 1.14m - 0.57m - 0.8m = 1.24m LO.

 

While cutting the required lengths to their exact dimensions (not as shown above), I will be isolating those that need joints cut out of them.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Petey