Kato 10-1614

[Richof]

Received the 5 car 10-1614 from Plazajapan today. Ordered with the EM13 decoder because it is listed as DCC Friendly. Guess what!  No slot for the EM13.  Anyone have any experience with this? Anyone install a non Kato decoder in this train?  Any help appreciated . 

 

 

 

[Arctic]

Hey,

 

I don't have much experience with DCC, but I checked the Kato Japan website page for this model, and it says that it is DCC friendly but only the lead car is supported. Not exactly sure what they mean by this but maybe this helps?

[Dani]

Hi,

 

I have only experience with "Saphire Odoriko", probably not the same model. In case of Kato 10-1644 E261 Saphir Odoriko, the motor car has the slot for EM13, but cab and end cars are really tricky. It's not easy to install the FL12 decoders. There is no slot for FL12 decoder and you have to disassemble them completelly to fit it in.

 

Just in case it can help: http://www.clubncaldes.com/2021/08/kato-10-1644-saphir-odoriko-dcc.html

[katoftw]

2 hours ago, Arctic said:

Hey,

 

I don't have much experience with DCC, but I checked the Kato Japan website page for this model, and it says that it is DCC friendly but only the lead car is supported. Not exactly sure what they mean by this but maybe this helps?

That means the cab cars only take decoders for directional lights. Lots of Kato models like this.

[inobu]

6 hours ago, Richof said:

Received the 5 car 10-1614 from Plazajapan today. Ordered with the EM13 decoder because it is listed as DCC Friendly. Guess what!  No slot for the EM13.  Anyone have any experience with this? Anyone install a non Kato decoder in this train?  Any help appreciated . 

 

 

 

Are you sure you are looking at the right car. The motor car is E256-2506. Hard to believe its not there.

 

Inobu

[Kamome]

The E257 Odoriko is actually an older tooling with updated parts and livery. It was designed some years ago before DCC was really much of a consideration and things still haven’t really caught on in the N gauge market.  I have the 10-433 Azusa/Kaiji version which was also “DCC friendly” but only the non gangway cab IIRC. The motor car would need to be hard wired similar to the 500 and 700 shinkansen from Kato.

 

Kato 189 series Asama 10-528 released in about 2008 was one of the first trains I bought which was fully DCC compatible but this may have been considered due to the EF63 banking locos which Kato offered a DCC fitting service for at the time. Unfortunately, a lot of newer products are rehashes of old models in terms of workings whereas external details and liveries may get changed.

 

I don’t think Kato should really advertise the DCC friendly aspect unless the whole train is compatible. Technically all coaches that take the coach lighting units are DCC friendly. 

 

I know this was discussed prior to or shortly after it’s initial release but this doesn’t help for those buying thinking it will be easy to fit as the DCC icon is used.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Kamome

[Madsing]

I have the exact same train and I plan to upgrade it to DCC too. I know it is not compatible with the EM13 and the decoders will have to be “hardwired”.

There are some photos of a DCC install in another Kato E257 here: https://ameblo.jp/okirakudcc/entry-12482008502.html. Unfortunately, there is not much information.

I am not at home this week, but can look at what is possible and post photos in a few days.

Marc

 

[katoftw]

1 hour ago, inobu said:

Are you sure you are looking at the right car. The motor car is E256-2506. Hard to believe its not there.

 

Inobu

Very easy to believe as Kato make many models that are listed as dcc friendly. But really only for the cab/end cars.

[inobu]

40 minutes ago, katoftw said:

Very easy to believe as Kato make many models that are listed as dcc friendly. But really only for the cab/end cars.

I don't think Kato is that bad where they would have one to install to end cab decoder lights with no motor decoder.

The motor would get hot and melt the motor mounts....

 

I think people don't realize that some EMU type trains don't have the door and the installation requires a hatch removal.

Meaning you take the bottom hatch off and install the decoder.

 

Inobu

[JR East]

10 hours ago, Richof said:

Received the 5 car 10-1614 from Plazajapan today. Ordered with the EM13 decoder because it is listed as DCC Friendly. Guess what!  No slot for the EM13.  Anyone have any experience with this? Anyone install a non Kato decoder in this train?  Any help appreciated . 

 

 

 

Hello 

 

The E257 is partially DCC friendly as explained on Kato website

 

I made a remark long time ago as I received my E257 serie 2500. The DCC compatibility is only for the first car as explained on the website what was to me completely weird for a brand new train. Below two post related to that

 

The second post have interesting remarks after mines

 

JM. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by JR East

[katoftw]

3 hours ago, inobu said:

I don't think Kato is that bad where they would have one to install to end cab decoder lights with no motor decoder.

The motor would get hot and melt the motor mounts....

 

I think people don't realize that some EMU type trains don't have the door and the installation requires a hatch removal.

Meaning you take the bottom hatch off and install the decoder.

 

Inobu

Please refer to the above posters link provided. It is a known issue.

[inobu]

ok, if you want to say it can't be done ok.......The lighting board is forked so the EM13 has the possibility to be installed.

Pulling off the hatch will yield better possibilities than just looking for a door.

 

Spending $150 to prove a point isn't worth it....So yeah you are right......

 

Inobu

[disturbman]

It would be pretty easy for @Richof or @Madsingto confirm or infirm the existence of that hatch.

Edited September 13, 2022 by disturbman

[katoftw]

There is also a Kato DCC compatibility database thread here on JNS. There are a few models that take FL12 in the end cars but need decoders soldered for motor cars.

 

As a previously said. This isn't an abnormal situation. It is a known thing Kato does.

[inobu]

36 minutes ago, disturbman said:

It would be pretty easy for @Richof or @Madsingto confirm or infirm the existence of that hatch.

The bottom gray cover.

 

I think its more so understanding what to do with DCC friendly verses DCC compatible.....But you guys are better installers than me.....

 

Inobu

[Darklighter]

Here is a screenshot from the following video, showing the underside of the motor car:

Edited September 13, 2022 by Darklighter

[Richof]

Thanks for the help and feedback.  I have ordered a DZ123 to install in the motor car. I have removed the shell to take a look but not the next layer. If anyone has experience, suggestions, or photos of what comes next, it would be greatly appreciated. A little nervous about the disassembly process. Perhaps my naivety on this, but I have ordered several other Kato DCC Friendly items before without issue, simply installing an EM13.

[disturbman]

Disassembling motor cars is actually very simple and straight forward. Though always very intimidating at first.

 

The important part is to keep things in order. I usually organise every piece from roof to wheels, and keep them facing the same way. If you are afraid of forgetting where things go, some people take pictures at each steps. It’s good to have containers for small parts, if there are any.

Edited September 13, 2022 by disturbman

[inobu]

2 hours ago, Richof said:

Thanks for the help and feedback.  I have ordered a DZ123 to install in the motor car. I have removed the shell to take a look but not the next layer. If anyone has experience, suggestions, or photos of what comes next, it would be greatly appreciated. A little nervous about the disassembly process. Perhaps my naivety on this, but I have ordered several other Kato DCC Friendly items before without issue, simply installing an EM13.

Rich,

 

I always look for myself when it comes to decoder installs. I have found provisions made to accommodate decoder install in some cases. Over time you will start

to create build methods that allows you to expand your install capabilities into any decoder module.

 

I try to encourage people to look for themselves as to become self reliant.

 

As stated take pictures as you go. I do it myself. 

 

Anyway good luck.

 

Inobu

 

[chadbag]

5 hours ago, disturbman said:

Disassembling motor cars is actually very simple and straight forward. Though always very intimidating at first.

 

The important part is to keep things in order. I usually organise every piece from roof to wheels, and keep them facing the same way. If you are afraid of forgetting where things go, some people take pictures at each steps. It’s good to have containers for small parts, if there are any.

 

To second the above.  Take pictures of every step and organize the stuff in the order you take it off.  force yourself to have good work space hygiene.  (I'm one to talk).

 

I did the KATO 800 Shinkansen, which, IIRC looked similar to your motor car -- big weight in the center.  There are a bunch of people who have done various KATO EMU or Shinkansen that are similar here on the forum and posted pictures.    Maybe familiarize yourself with a few different ones.  Yours is bound to be very similar to one of them.

 

 

[Richof]

Ok. My DZ123 arrives today. Looking at the attached photos. I assume the motor contacts are under this white clip and the power bus is the bronze strips running up either side.  Do I need to remove the entire seating layer to isolate the motor or can I remove that white clip and be safe? 

By the way, installed the 2 FL12's in in both cab cars without issue. Hence the "DCC Friendly" claim. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Richof

[Kamome]

The thin brass tabs sitting under the white clip are the motor contacts. The white clip just holds the contacts to the brass strip to get current from the wheels.

 

You will need to isolate the connection by wrapping some Kapton tape around the brass strip. Without the white clip, the contacts are kind of disconnected but may still make contact on the edge of the brass strip and short.

 

Some information from Digitrax for a different loco install but motor tabs and brass strip are the same principle.

 

https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB383/dn163k0d-installation-instructions-kato-f40ph/

Edited September 16, 2022 by Kamome

[Richof]

Thank you.  Very helpful.  I will give it a go over the weekend and let you know how I do. 

[Richof]

Success!!  Installed the DZ123, No issues.  Not the neatest install.  I am 6'2" 280lbs and 67 years old.  All this to say fine hand work is not my strong suit. It runs fine.  I will clean up the install and post some pics maybe tomorrow.  Thanks for all the help. This was my first non EM13 install. 

[Richof]

Ok.  Not the prettiest install, but it works!  I clipped off the partition on the far right end.  This allowed the decoder to nestle in that spot pretty well. Saved some length on the lighting wires in case I want to reuse the decoder elsewhere in the future. I have installed FL12's on both ends cabs. Working well. Going to cover up the wires with some masking tape. Color is similar enough to the car interior.