Motors to operate Peco turnouts?

[gavino200]

I'm leaning heavily toward using Peco Code 55 track. I have two reasons for this. I want to use flex track as much as possible. Also I want my turnouts to be as trouble free as possible. 

 

Peco makes two different trunout motors. One is the PL10, a solenoid that sits below the track. These seem to work well, but a disadvantage is needing to make a hole for the solenoid to sit in. 

 

The second motor is a PL11 side mounted point motor. Also seem to work well. They are visible obviously, and potentially could get in the way in a tight yard or track design. 

 

They also have a "twistlock" turnout motor which looks interesting. 

 

Anyone have experience with either of these motors? Anyone use a different motor with Peco turnouts? @Martijn Meerts, you mentioned before that you use relays (or was it servos?) with your Peco turnouts. Are you talking about the PL10 or something else? I don't see any sidemount motors on your layout.

Edited April 2, 2022 by gavino200

[gavino200]

This video lists and describes a bunch of different turnout control machines. 

 

Solenoid - including Peco. I think Kato turnouts also operate this way. They say they're not popular in the US for a couple of reasons. Apparently they use a lot of power? And are very fast so could damage the turnouts? I'm not convinced by this. But they are fairly loud which I don't like.

 

 

Motors - Like the tortoise. I've always ignored this because its so giant. Kato on the other hand were just such a great 'all-in-one" option. But alas that ship has sailed. So I'll give these things a second look. 

[Cat]

42 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

This video lists and describes a bunch of different turnout control machines. 

 

Solenoid - including Peco. I think Kato turnouts also operate this way. They say they're not popular in the US for a couple of reasons. Apparently they use a lot of power? And are very fast so could damage the turnouts? I'm not convinced by this. But they are fairly loud which I don't like.

 

 

Motors - Like the tortoise. I've always ignored this because its so giant. Kato on the other hand were just such a great 'all-in-one" option. But alas that ship has sailed. So I'll give these things a second look. 

 

Yes, solenoids are loud and can cause wear and tear on the turnouts over time.
 
Tortoise are indeed large, but if you have room under the layout they work superbly, and the Snail comes DCC chipped.
 
The Tam Valley system are more compact and their quad controllers are relatively economical for DCC control.

[gavino200]

15 minutes ago, Cat said:

The Tam Valley system are more compact and their quad controllers are relatively economical for DCC control.

 

Oh yes! Much smaller and well priced too. I'll have to study these a bit. Have you used them? Pros and cons?

[Cat]

7 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

Oh yes! Much smaller and well priced too. I'll have to study these a bit. Have you used them? Pros and cons?

Acquired, yes; used no.  That project stalled out alas.  But after much research and comparing them in person with Torotoise/Snail at the Springfield show, Tam Valley won out easily.

[gavino200]

An interesting video here showing how a servo system works. It's really very simple. And tiny servos are available for very little money. It doesn't seem to make much sense to pay $20 for a tortoise, and then have to incorporate this giant green thing into your layout. I'm sure there'll be a learning curve with servos but it's going to be the exact same process for each turnout so it seems like it would be worthwhile. I'll have a lot of these suckers. 

 

My main issue will be connecting them to the automation interface. But that should work identically to a tortoise which is well described.

[gavino200]

A great video here by the Meapoints guy on how to make a surface mounted servo, for when there isn't space below to mount a servo. It's very simple. I'm sold on just using basic servos to control these things.

 

Now to learn about servo controllers. I guess I should move to the DCC forum for that.

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by gavino200

[Martijn Meerts]

On 4/2/2022 at 5:59 PM, gavino200 said:

Anyone have experience with either of these motors? Anyone use a different motor with Peco turnouts? @Martijn Meerts, you mentioned before that you use relays (or was it servos?) with your Peco turnouts. Are you talking about the PL10 or something else? I don't see any sidemount motors on your layout.

 

I use servos from ESU (https://www.esu.eu/en/products/switchpilot/precision-servo-motor/) Servos can be had much cheaper than the ESU ones, but the advantage of the ESU ones is that they come with mounting bracket and screws, and several accessories depending on how you install them. It's not very economic to get the ESU ones, but it does make it a bit easier and saves time.

 

All servos are mounted below the layout, directly below the turnouts. A simple metal wire from the servo to a hole in the center of the throw bar is used to switch them. The switched do need the little spring removed that keeps them in position when thrown manually. With a servo there's no need for that spring.

 

Peco's own motors can be used as well, I just wanted the reliability of servos, plus ESUs servo decoders have the ability to switch polarisation of the frog, which is rather critical for smooth running on low speeds, and to prevent shorts.

 

[gavino200]

5 hours ago, Martijn Meerts said:

 

I use servos from ESU (https://www.esu.eu/en/products/switchpilot/precision-servo-motor/) Servos can be had much cheaper than the ESU ones, but the advantage of the ESU ones is that they come with mounting bracket and screws, and several accessories depending on how you install them. It's not very economic to get the ESU ones, but it does make it a bit easier and saves time.

 

All servos are mounted below the layout, directly below the turnouts. A simple metal wire from the servo to a hole in the center of the throw bar is used to switch them. The switched do need the little spring removed that keeps them in position when thrown manually. With a servo there's no need for that spring.

 

Peco's own motors can be used as well, I just wanted the reliability of servos, plus ESUs servo decoders have the ability to switch polarisation of the frog, which is rather critical for smooth running on low speeds, and to prevent shorts.

 

 

This guy, and I think also Dani's link show how to make servo brackets. I'll probably check these methods out before deciding on ESU/Digikeijs servos versus directly buying them.

 

The guy in the video removes the spring from the Peco turnouts. But I could swear I saw another video where it looks like the spring is still in place with a servo. It seems like the spring would be a nice little bit of insurance, if it's possible to keep it. Did you ever try a servo with the spring intact? Sort of a belt and suspenders approach?

[Martijn Meerts]

I haven't tried without removing the spring no. It should work, the servos are strong enough to work with the spring. However, I repurpose the hole for the spring in the throw bar to the servo's metal wire, so for me it makes sense to remove them either way 😄

 

[Welshbloke]

PL10s will last forever, the snag is that they're a bit violent in my experience. Also prone to buzzing when thrown.

 

They do offer clip on switches which can be used for frog switching, signal interlocking, indicator panel lights, etc.

 

We're using servo-based units on the club O scale layout, most of our pointwork is hand built with no springing but I think the springs have been removed from the Peco double slip. It's not so much strength to throw them as not wanting a sudden lurch as the spring clicks over, also the springs aren't needed as the motor jams the rails firmly together once adjusted.

[Kamome]

I saw some years ago a small UK company selling a controller that powered readily available servo motors to control points and signals. I am pretty sure it was Megapoints Controllers although just as the chap was starting out.

 

Using servos enabled the modelling of the 2 stage switch movement that you would see in the days of manual signal boxes with levers as well as the bounce on semiphore signals.  As with tortoise motors you obviously have to remove the spring from the Peco points.

 

It looked relatively easy to configure and reset should something need fixing. It was certainly nicely thought out and seeing it in the flesh, the added animation you could achieve seems like the way forward to me. Tortoise style motors brought us forward from the solenoid snapping but realistic movement seems the next step and servos are generally much cheaper than individual point motors.

 

https://megapointscontrollers.co.uk/?v=79cba1185463