Curve radius limits for different trains?

[Kamome]

Tomix does list the trains suitable for the super mini and mini curves. It also says somewhere else that TN couplers won't navigate them. 

 

Here's the Tomix list

 

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/smc-mc-list.html

[gavino200]

So. A second related problem. If I use Peco track the standard radii are different. If I have to I can make a custom 315mm radius track guide for making flextrack curves in 315 radius. 

 

But does anyone know if Peco "2nd Radius" curve track will work with shinkansens? Do Kato mention 315 as their minimum radius track that will work with shinkansens? Or is 315 the absolute smallest radius that will work with shinkansens?

 

Anyone run shinkansens on Peco 2nd radius 300mm radius track with no problems? 

[disturbman]

6 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Anyone run shinkansens on Peco 2nd radius 300mm radius track with no problems? 

From your link, 2nd radius is 265mm. Why don't you use 4th radius curves (330mm)?

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, disturbman said:

From your link, 2nd radius is 265mm. Why don't you use 4th radius curves (330mm)?

 

Yes, thanks, I meant 3rd radius

 

But, yes I could use 4th, but each step larger eats away at complexity. 

[disturbman]

We are talking 3 to 6cm. I'm sure you have enough space to fit such an immense loss of space 😉 

In visible curves, I wouldn't compromise for smaller radii if I could avoid it. It's too important.

Edited April 3, 2022 by disturbman

[gavino200]

Peco make these nifty "Tracksetta" guides. You place them between flextrack rails and they hold the shape while you fix them in place. 

 

I bet I could make some knock-offs myself out of styrene. That way I could use any radius I like. I'm guessing that track radius numbers are given as the radius of a median line through the middle of the track. That way (of course I'd measure it first) but I could make two arcs 3.5mm greater and smaller than the desired radius and cut it out. That's assuming the rails themselves are 1mm. Again I'd measure first. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by gavino200

[katoftw]

Gets kinda expensive when you buy 3-4 different radi. Borrowing or renting off somebody would work.

[cteno4]

Easy enough to make. $10 gets you a compass point and lead holder that you slip on a yard stick to make a giant compass. Your scroll saw is perfect to cut it out of 020 stryene or chipboard. You can make a parallel jig out a block of wood and cut two slits (slit width the width of your rail) in it the separation you want between inside rail of outer track and outside rail of inner track. Use these to keep the tracks properly spaced after you nail one line in place.

 

other option is to do the whole track plan on the track planning software and print it out and cut it up as a stencil to mark out on your baseboard. We use to printout the whole JRM build on the fly layouts so we could paste them down on the modules to know where to put what track. At FedEx you can print out like 3’ across, saves taping pages together! You can also just lay the plan out and run over the track center/sides with a pouncing wheel and chalk it then to transfer the track plan.

 

 Here’s,
 

jeff

[Madsing]

11 hours ago, gavino200 said:

But does anyone know if Peco "2nd Radius" curve track will work with shinkansens? Do Kato mention 315 as their minimum radius track that will work with shinkansens? Or is 315 the absolute smallest radius that will work with shinkansens?

 

Anyone run shinkansens on Peco 2nd radius 300mm radius track with no problems? 

Even if they can run on 315mm radius curves, I think that Shinkansens don't look good in these curves. I can run Kato Shinkansens on my layout on Tomix C317 curves, but I really don't like the way they look. Shinkansen cars are way longer than other train's cars. This has been a disappointment to me, frankly... @gavino200 If I had your kind of space, I would (try to) make a double loop dedicated to Shinkansens only, with the largest curves possible.

[disturbman]

6 hours ago, Madsing said:

If I had your kind of space, I would (try to) make a double loop dedicated to Shinkansens only, with the largest curves possible.

That's what I'm trying to tell him, do not cheap out on curve radius for the Shinkansens.

Edited April 4, 2022 by disturbman

[Martijn Meerts]

I use flex track for everything apart from the turnouts, it's actually quite easy to do.

 

For the helix, I used standard Tomix radii and track spacing, so what I did was create the curve(s) using a layout design program, printed it 1:1 scale, placed the printed curves where I wanted them, and then mark the roadbed where I wanted the curves. After marking each curve, I cut that bit off so I could mark the next curve on the roadbed, using the printed curves as template.

 

To lay the curves, I first soldered 2 flex tracks together (this was needed for a full 180 degree curve), and then starting in the middle, I carefully shaped the flex track, lining it up the the lines I marked on the roadbed.

 

[nbobkk]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:46 AM, gavino200 said:

 

The single folded sheet, four page leaflet that comes with shinkansens, has a box with two diagrams showing a right and a wrong way of doing something related to a R315-45 curve. Having this curve going directly to an x'd out track without a small intercalated track is wrong. With the small track all is ok. I don't know Japanese and can't interpret this. I'm guessing you know the answer. Would you be able to share it?

 

 

I've been looking at these sheets too, trying to figure out what things mean.  It's hard get a good translation because my hand wobbles and the text is small, but holding up my google translate app to the pdf on my computer, the first line seems to say 'when using elevated track, use a radius of 315mm or more'.  The second line, the one that goes along with the pictures you mention, says to add the 62mm straight piece when coming off a single track truss bridge.  I guess because of side clearance/hitting the bridge.  It's possible that is what the first sentence is about too if it means viaducts, 315 or higher so it doesn't hit the walls. 

[gavino200]

13 hours ago, Madsing said:

Even if they can run on 315mm radius curves, I think that Shinkansens don't look good in these curves. I can run Kato Shinkansens on my layout on Tomix C317 curves, but I really don't like the way they look. Shinkansen cars are way longer than other train's cars. This has been a disappointment to me, frankly... @gavino200 If I had your kind of space, I would (try to) make a double loop dedicated to Shinkansens only, with the largest curves possible.

 

7 hours ago, disturbman said:

That's what I'm trying to tell him, do not cheap out on curve radius for the Shinkansens.

 

I agree with you guys. I definitely want to make all my curves as large a radius as possible. Especially on the main lines. There may be a few places, like coming off the main line to the yards where radius might be an issue. Or also for a hidden yard with a curve in it, if I were to go with that idea. I'm really just trying to establish a minimum radius to not go under, under any circumstances. In reality I'll try to stay as large as I can.

 

 

[gavino200]

5 hours ago, Martijn Meerts said:

I use flex track for everything apart from the turnouts, it's actually quite easy to do.

 

For the helix, I used standard Tomix radii and track spacing, so what I did was create the curve(s) using a layout design program, printed it 1:1 scale, placed the printed curves where I wanted them, and then mark the roadbed where I wanted the curves. After marking each curve, I cut that bit off so I could mark the next curve on the roadbed, using the printed curves as template.

 

To lay the curves, I first soldered 2 flex tracks together (this was needed for a full 180 degree curve), and then starting in the middle, I carefully shaped the flex track, lining it up the the lines I marked on the roadbed.

 

 

How do you fix your flextrack, Martijn? Nails, screws, or glue? Nails look simple but removing them seems like a pain, if you need to remove anything. I've seen Piko screws used for HO but I don't know if you can use them for n.

 

I saw a British guy on YouTube yesterday saying that he preferred glue to nails/screws as the nails/screws can transmit vibration to the subroadbed causing extra noise. He, and lots of the British guys use a glue called Copydex. It seems like it's plenty strong to hold the tracks in place but can easily be removed if necessary. This is the video. He actually uses screws and glue and then removes the screws later one everything is dry.

 

Probably I'll use concrete tie flextrack for my viaducts and long shinkensen sections but wooden tie flextrack anywhere where there'll be a lot of turnouts or special tracks. Switching from concrete to wood would look pretty bad, and trying to repaint all the turnouts would probably jeopardize their function. It's tedious but doable with Kato track, but with Peco, I think it would be courting disaster.

 

 

 

[cteno4]

I kind of doubt there is much difference in noise transmission with glue vs nails/screws. If anything glue attaches at a lot more points than nails/screws do. I think this was one of the tests that chap did years ago, wish I could find that stuff, should have made a pdf out of it as stuff like that eventually goes poof on the web or gets buried in deep dark places even the spiders don’t find of just blitzed in the SER.

 

most all the track noise I’ve seen and experienced has been from larger unsupported areas of thinner baseboard that end up as large vibrational speakers. With decent structural support even 1” foam doesn’t boom and can even act as a dampener.

 

you might experiment some with your temp layout and have a 4-6’ area of parallel tracks (straight) and glue one side and screw one side. Same goes for roadbed to see what sounds best to you and also which seems the most manageable to your construction hands.

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

How do you fix your flextrack, Martijn? Nails, screws, or glue? Nails look simple but removing them seems like a pain, if you need to remove anything. I've seen Piko screws used for HO but I don't know if you can use them for n.

 

I use screws in between the sleepers. They're actually supposed to be temporary, to be removed after ballasting, since the track will then be held in place by the ballast. However, I've not laid any track yet that remains visible, so the screws aren't exactly temporary for the yard and helix 🙂  They're small though, and they don't cause any issues with the trains running over them, so I'll probably just leave them in place.

 

As for the sound, it'll always travel from the track to the baseboard, no matter what really. I think one of the better sound dampening options would be something like the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed (or similar), and use contact glue to glue the foam to the base board. Then use glue only on the top and sides of the foam, lay the track, and immediately ballast the track. Don't wait for the glued track to dry, but use the glue used for the track for the ballast as well. The ballasted track might not look quite as good though, since you end up with only a thin layer of ballast, but you might be able to carefully add some more and carefully use an eye dropped to glue it down.

 

Of course, if you have several longer trains running, the noise of the wheels running on the track will drown out any noise from the baseboard, so the question is if it's worth worrying to much about it 🙂

 

[cteno4]

I agree with Martijn, most all train noise I notice is wheel on rail.  More cars and faster, more noise. Any drumming from the baseboard is totally drowned out by wheel noise to my ear usually.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, Martijn Meerts said:

 

I use screws in between the sleepers. They're actually supposed to be temporary, to be removed after ballasting, since the track will then be held in place by the ballast. However, I've not laid any track yet that remains visible, so the screws aren't exactly temporary for the yard and helix 🙂  They're small though, and they don't cause any issues with the trains running over them, so I'll probably just leave them in place.

 

Thanks. Is it the Piko screws that you use? If I were leaving screws in, I'd probably prefer them to go into the ties themselves. But in n scale there may not be enough space. I'll investigate.

 

1 hour ago, Martijn Meerts said:

As for the sound, it'll always travel from the track to the baseboard, no matter what really. I think one of the better sound dampening options would be something like the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed (or similar),

 

I'll probably use this. I bought some to experiment. Or possibly more likely, I'll try and source some rolls of the same kind of foam they use. The alternative would be cork, which I like (the look of) but I hear that it dries out over time.

 

1 hour ago, Martijn Meerts said:

 

and use contact glue to glue the foam to the base board. Then use glue only on the top and sides of the foam, lay the track, and immediately ballast the track. Don't wait for the glued track to dry, but use the glue used for the track for the ballast as well. The ballasted track might not look quite as good though, since you end up with only a thin layer of ballast, but you might be able to carefully add some more and carefully use an eye dropped to glue it down.

 

I'm sure that would be the best. But there's no way I could pull that off. I need to learn how to ballast. I've never done it. So that will call for some slow painstaking obsessive tests.

 

 

1 hour ago, Martijn Meerts said:

 

Of course, if you have several longer trains running, the noise of the wheels running on the track will drown out any noise from the baseboard, so the question is if it's worth worrying to much about it 🙂

 

 

Yeah, that's true. Those little fellers are pretty loud!

[gavino200]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I kind of doubt there is much difference in noise transmission with glue vs nails/screws. If anything glue attaches at a lot more points than nails/screws do. I think this was one of the tests that chap did years ago, wish I could find that stuff, should have made a pdf out of it as stuff like that eventually goes poof on the web or gets buried in deep dark places even the spiders don’t find of just blitzed in the SER.

 

The guy gave a little justification. The glue fixes the track to the foam. But the nails provide a conductive connection directly to the subroadbed. Just repeating what he said.

 

The British guys seem pretty devoted to this particular "Copydex" glue. I've no idea what it's properties are. But he mentioned that it's strong but easy to remove without ruining the tracks. I wonder if it's like E6000, which dries rubbery rather than hard. A layer of rubbery glue probably wouldn't transmit too much sound.

 

 

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

most all the track noise I’ve seen and experienced has been from larger unsupported areas of thinner baseboard that end up as large vibrational speakers. With decent structural support even 1” foam doesn’t boom and can even act as a dampener.

 

Is that the small grid you spoke of before? Can that be retrofitted to a layout?

 

 

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

you might experiment some with your temp layout and have a 4-6’ area of parallel tracks (straight) and glue one side and screw one side. Same goes for roadbed to see what sounds best to you and also which seems the most manageable to your construction hands.

 

 

Construction wise, I'm not too worried about this. I'm somewhat relieved now that I know I can cut plywood. I'll use a Japanese hand saw for straight cuts, and probably the jigsaw for the curved cuts. I may even be able to use the scroll saw depending on the thickness. I haven't  decided on a thickness yet, but it looks like people use something between a quarter and a half inch. Cost isn't an issue fortunately. Thicker would be more solid but harder to cut. I do have a question about Jigsaw blades. I understand the number of teeth thing, but is it possible to get blades that are extra rigid? When I used the jigsaw before the blade bent and ruined a cut. I had a rail set up to guide the whole saw rather than the blade and wasn't expecting the blade to bend. After that I set up a rail to guide the blade itself. However, I can't do that with a curved cut.

 

Other than that, I'm sure that I'll be using foam if I can source a place to buy it by the roll.

 

Likely I'll experiment with a straight segment of double track. That way the subroadbed and risers will be the same. But I'll also need to experiment a bit with distance between risers and fixation techniques. I'd probably tend toward more is better, but I don't want to make work for myself needlessly.

 

[cteno4]

47 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

The guy gave a little justification. The glue fixes the track to the foam. But the nails provide a conductive connection directly to the subroadbed. Just repeating what he said.

 

The British guys seem pretty devoted to this particular "Copydex" glue. I've no idea what it's properties are. But he mentioned that it's strong but easy to remove without ruining the tracks. I wonder if it's like E6000, which dries rubbery rather than hard. A layer of rubbery glue probably wouldn't transmit too much sound.

yeah I’ve not seen much data except for that one chap that had had enough and did a lot of neat tests to get some data! 
 

there are a number of caulks and other construction adhesives I’ve seen folks use for flex and Unitrak. Plain old silicone caulking is loved by some or even cheaper bathroom sink caulking. Sticks well has a tad of give and can get scraped up/off.

 

50 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Is that the small grid you spoke of before? Can that be retrofitted to a layout?

on all the sectional and temp setup modules the largest span of ply (usually 5mm) or extruded foam (1” usually) was 12”x18”. Doing this keeps the baseboard material from seeming to vibrate much. Could easily get retrofitted to an existing layout by just adding a grid of crosspieces under the layout. Strips of 1/2” ply would be plenty. Easy way is to make the wine bottle box insert sort of grid with each perpendicular pieces having a half lap joint (notch) cut into it so all the crossing pieces interlock. Makes a very strong grid. Too bad you are not closer as these are very quick to make on the table saw. Grids could easily be glued in place and tacked in with 45 degree toe nails with a brad nailer from under the layout.

 

https://www.pikpng.com/pngl/m/56-563578_half-lap-joint-lap-joint-wood-clipart.png

Dense half lap grid for a table

 

https://wac.edgecastcdn.net/001A39/prod/media/6f2iIJdfiy1XrhEsite/69F9A89BE36BA703D408F3016F6363D7.app1_1548438609734_PZ320.jpeg

 

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

Construction wise, I'm not too worried about this. I'm somewhat relieved now that I know I can cut plywood. I'll use a Japanese hand saw for straight cuts, and probably the jigsaw for the curved cuts. I may even be able to use the scroll saw depending on the thickness. I haven't  decided on a thickness yet, but it looks like people use something between a quarter and a half inch. Cost isn't an issue fortunately. Thicker would be more solid but harder to cut. I do have a question about Jigsaw blades. I understand the number of teeth thing, but is it possible to get blades that are extra rigid? When I used the jigsaw before the blade bent and ruined a cut. I had a rail set up to guide the whole saw rather than the blade and wasn't expecting the blade to bend. After that I set up a rail to guide the blade itself. However, I can't do that with a curved cut.

yes there are a host of handsaws out there. There are very stuff ones to use in cross cuts like in a miter box to super flexible ones. I can try to find you a good guide on them. Japanese pull saws can give you the best control once you get use to working with them. Did you ever get a hand miter saw? One like these are great and I used to use them a lot as a kid for doing picture frames and other odd angle cuts.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Mitre-Adjustable-Angle-CMHT20800/dp/B07R4BVSB4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1OA5YTM8A1WEK&keywords=Hand+miter+saw&qid=1649113888&sprefix=hand+miter+saw%2Caps%2C54&sr=8-4

 

if you ever get the chance you might try a Japanese woodworking class. All about the zen of hand saws and blades! 
 

with a jig/saber saw you really can’t use guides with them, you have to free hand. This is due to the blade’s single attachment point and action, the blade only likes to change direction if you turn the blade. With a guide when there is some blade wander happening (this is due to hitting different densities in what you are cutting and the blade drag and jumping happening going back and forth rapidly, not in a single direction like a band or circular saw) just pulling the blade sideways (perpendicular to the cut) against the guide won’t correct the wander it just starts to bend the blade some and the top might be close to line then, but bottom bows out or in.
 

Using a saber saw to get nice cuts is all practice, practice, practice. It’s one of those tools I will do a few practice cuts with if I have not used it for a while, especially to get the feel for the material and judge if right blade is in for the cut I need and adjust accordingly. Also just helps you dial in correction amount to do for wander and how much is going to happen. Going slow also helps faster you go the faster a wonder will go wild and corrections as well. Also sharp places help, dull blades just love to get pushed around and wander!

 

Use your scroll saw with 020 stryrene or chipboard for the arc guides and it will cut it like butter and much easier to keep on track than the saber saw. May have to hack off excess corners first with matte knife to fit in the scroll saw and maneuver it well. Also may want a larger piece of plywood mounted on your scroll saw table to help the bigger pieces from not flopping and giving cleaner feed thru the blade.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Mitre-Adjustable-Angle-CMHT20800/dp/B07R4BVSB4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1OA5YTM8A1WEK&keywords=Hand+miter+saw&qid=1649113888&sprefix=hand+miter+saw%2Caps%2C54&sr=8-4

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

there are a number of caulks and other construction adhesives I’ve seen folks use for flex and Unitrak. Plain old silicone caulking is loved by some or even cheaper bathroom sink caulking. Sticks well has a tad of give and can get scraped up/off.

 

 

I might see if I can get some old crappy flextrack to try out a few glues on. 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

 

 

on all the sectional and temp setup modules the largest span of ply (usually 5mm) or extruded foam (1” usually) was 12”x18”. Doing this keeps the baseboard material from seeming to vibrate much. Could easily get retrofitted to an existing layout by just adding a grid of crosspieces under the layout. Strips of 1/2” ply would be plenty. Easy way is to make the wine bottle box insert sort of grid with each perpendicular pieces having a half lap joint (notch) cut into it so all the crossing pieces interlock. Makes a very strong grid. Too bad you are not closer as these are very quick to make on the table saw. Grids could easily be glued in place and tacked in with 45 degree toe nails with a brad nailer from under the layout.

 

https://www.pikpng.com/pngl/m/56-563578_half-lap-joint-lap-joint-wood-clipart.png

Dense half lap grid for a table

 

https://wac.edgecastcdn.net/001A39/prod/media/6f2iIJdfiy1XrhEsite/69F9A89BE36BA703D408F3016F6363D7.app1_1548438609734_PZ320.jpeg

 

I think I'll try this. It won't be my very next thing to do but I shouldn't let it wait until the table underside is full of wires and gadgets.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

yes there are a host of handsaws out there. There are very stuff ones to use in cross cuts like in a miter box to super flexible ones. I can try to find you a good guide on them. Japanese pull saws can give you the best control once you get use to working with them. Did you ever get a hand miter saw? One like these are great and I used to use them a lot as a kid for doing picture frames and other odd angle cuts.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Mitre-Adjustable-Angle-CMHT20800/dp/B07R4BVSB4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1OA5YTM8A1WEK&keywords=Hand+miter+saw&qid=1649113888&sprefix=hand+miter+saw%2Caps%2C54&sr=8-4

 

I have that exact miter saw and I love it. But I've found that I can get just as good an angle cut just by marking the wood and cutting with the Japanese saw. You can just watch it and guide it by feel, holding the blade when necessary to encourage it in the direction you want. I only used it because I needed to make an angle that was steeper than what the miter saw allowed. But it works great. 

 

I used the Jig saw for one straight ply cut. And it was alright, but not great. I figured I could do better with the Japanese saw, and I was right. Much better and easier. 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

if you ever get the chance you might try a Japanese woodworking class. All about the zen of hand saws and blades! 

 

I'll look on Youtube. Id like to be able to do joints and curves by hand. I love the feeling of cutting wood by hand.

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

with a jig/saber saw you really can’t use guides with them, you have to free hand. This is due to the blade’s single attachment point and action, the blade only likes to change direction if you turn the blade. With a guide when there is some blade wander happening (this is due to hitting different densities in what you are cutting and the blade drag and jumping happening going back and forth rapidly, not in a single direction like a band or circular saw) just pulling the blade sideways (perpendicular to the cut) against the guide won’t correct the wander it just starts to bend the blade some and the top might be close to line then, but bottom bows out or in.
 

Using a saber saw to get nice cuts is all practice, practice, practice. It’s one of those tools I will do a few practice cuts with if I have not used it for a while, especially to get the feel for the material and judge if right blade is in for the cut I need and adjust accordingly. Also just helps you dial in correction amount to do for wander and how much is going to happen. Going slow also helps faster you go the faster a wonder will go wild and corrections as well. Also sharp places help, dull blades just love to get pushed around and wander!

 

Use your scroll saw with 020 stryrene or chipboard for the arc guides and it will cut it like butter and much easier to keep on track than the saber saw. May have to hack off excess corners first with matte knife to fit in the scroll saw and maneuver it well. Also may want a larger piece of plywood mounted on your scroll saw table to help the bigger pieces from not flopping and giving cleaner feed thru the blade.

 

 

Thanks. I think I'll search for a super stiff blade for the Jigsaw. That and I'll probably cut oversized and sand down do the desired curve. 

[Englehart]

^^ you may also use liquid nails instead of nails it's a strong adhesive

[cteno4]

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

I have that exact miter saw and I love it. But I've found that I can get just as good an angle cut just by marking the wood and cutting with the Japanese saw. You can just watch it and guide it by feel, holding the blade when necessary to encourage it in the direction you want. I only used it because I needed to make an angle that was steeper than what the miter saw allowed. But it works great. 

 

I used the Jig saw for one straight ply cut. And it was alright, but not great. I figured I could do better with the Japanese saw, and I was right. Much better and easier. 

Great, they really help in doing cross cuts. My dad found a great old German one in the want ads from an old framing company that went out of business. It was so sturdy and such a wonderful clamping system.

 

yes if you are willing to take the time and effort a pull saw can do very nice rip cuts like this.

 

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

I'll look on Youtube. Id like to be able to do joints and curves by hand. I love the feeling of cutting wood by hand.

if you like the feel, then you might really enjoy a Japanese wood working course in person. It’s a wonderful retreat that a number of friends have enjoyed. Different world. Really with your manual dexterity you would excel and be very satisfying!

 

7 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Thanks. I think I'll search for a super stiff blade for the Jigsaw. That and I'll probably cut oversized and sand down do the desired curve.

sorry not a solution really, it’s the mechanics of it. If you want a guided cut then you need to move to a different saw like a circular saw, but I know that’s not an option you entertain.

 

form the baseboard cuts hand cutting with a saber saw should be fine as it does not have to be perfect. For the templates use your scroll saw as it’s much more controlled for this sort of thing.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

sorry not a solution really, it’s the mechanics of it. If you want a guided cut then you need to move to a different saw like a circular saw, but I know that’s not an option you entertain.

 

form the baseboard cuts hand cutting with a saber saw should be fine as it does not have to be perfect. For the templates use your scroll saw as it’s much more controlled for this sort of thing.

 

jeff

 

Ah, I misunderstood you. I though you were saying it would help a little bit but not much for all the mechanical reasons. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. It should be easier with thinner board. I still wonder if there's another way to do it by hand. Like maybe with a Gigli saw. Or to use thick plastic instead and etch my way through. 🤔

[cteno4]

Saber saws by their mechanical action and blade only held at one end just are not super exact cutting machines. But they are super useful as in a lot of situations it’s really the only saw you can get into some situations. Going slow, sharp blade and correct blade for the material helps a lot along with practice. You can cut straight lines pretty well with above stuff, just never going to be dead straight like a circular saw.

 

i guess I’m now confused on what you want to cut. I was talking about using your bench scroll saw for making the big arc templates for your flex track. That would be best done out of styrene sheet or thin ply on your scroll saw, much easier to do fine control there than with the saber saw, especially on thinner materials that tend to chatter around some with a saber saw and give you a much cleaner edge. You could use the saber saw to rough cut the arc out to get the extra waste out of the way then go thru the scroll saw for the final cut. 

 

for whacking up pieces of 1/2” ply to make your baseboard sections for the elevated areas the saber saw is great as you don’t need perfect edges there as it will be eventually covered by scenery.

 

cutting curves by hand in a larger piece of wood is not as easy. You need a thinner blade of like a keyhole saw. Straight cuts by hand can be very good with the right saw and technique.
 

only place I’ve ever seen a Gigli saw useful is when you have a brace or post that’s in a position surrounded by other stuff that you can’t get a saw into but you can fish the Gigli wire around (probably the same situation in surgery). Still not super controllable. These days the modern sawsall (long skinny very powerful saber saw) has taken over most of that awkward space sawing, but they can be brutal machines!

 

jeff