Problems with the Eurostar

[serenityFan]

That's what the local newspaper here says:

 

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/eurostar-services-cancelled-indefinitely-20091221-l7s0.html

 

 

And I am set to take the Eurostar on the 30th Dec... 

[disturbman]

Yeah... that's a crazy story. 2.000 and three trains stuck in the Tunnel. I can't begin to fathom what happened. So many malfunctions in a so short period of time on so many train sets... that's quite improbable. TGVs don't seem to have suffer from the same problems... faulty maintenance on Eurostar trains? Maybe some new or special equipment that couldn't stand the weather? Both? Something else. I know it was cold but still, it's not unsual to see Eurostars in the Alps during the winter.

 

That and the fire some months ago, bad year for Eurostar.

[bikkuri bahn]

Perhaps Eurostar officials could benefit by a visit to Northern Japan, and see how JR East operates the Seikan Tunnel route- 11 years without major incident...

[disturbman]

I'm confident that they don't need to. After all, and as far as I know, they didn't have problems with their other rolling stock (shuttle and their locs). The Eurostars are pretty and stupidly complex trains. Until recently they were still equiped for third rail pick up.

 

This story reminds a lot about the Berliner S-Bahn meltdown...

[to2leo]

Totally unrelated in the news but related in technology.  I heard reliability in wintery climate is one the reasons why China has chosen the Velaro over the TGV and other high speed trainsets for its northern high speed routes.

[Darren Jeffries]

I'm confident that they don't need to. After all, and as far as I know, they didn't have problems with their other rolling stock (shuttle and their locs). The Eurostars are pretty and stupidly complex trains. Until recently they were still equiped for third rail pick up.

 

This story reminds a lot about the Berliner S-Bahn meltdown...

 

Until today that is.... Shuttle is now suspended!!!!

 

55,000 people now disrupted by eurostar failure, and more in the airports because of the snow. It's mad weather season globally, clearly!!!!

[Guest ___]

And,  I thought the Accela had issues.

[disturbman]

From the Railway Gazette:

 

Eurostar accepts multiple failings

 

12 February 2010

 

EUROPE: The findings of the independent review commissioned to look into the collapse of Eurostar cross-Channel services during the severe snowstorms on December 18-19 were announced in London on February 12.

 

Following pressure from the French transport minister Dominique Bussereau, Eurostar had asked former GNER Chief Executive Chris Garnett and Ingénieur-Général des Ponts et Chaussées Claude Gressier to investigate the failure of five trains inside the Channel Tunnel, the subsequent evacuation and suspension of services, and the lessons that needed to be learned to prevent a recurrence.

 

The report reveals a host of problems, starting with inadequate maintenance and winterisation of the ageing trainsets and design failings in the complex power cars which need to be addressed at or before the forthcoming mid-life refit. There were also concerns about conditions on the trains following the loss of power for lighting and ventilation. The recovery and evacuation of the trains were hindered by poor communication between the Eurostar and Eurotunnel control centres and the people on the ground, aggravated by inadequate staff training and a lack of focus on keeping passengers informed during the disruption.

 

Garnett and Gressier believe that many of the underlying problems can be traced back to the complex tri-national joint venture behind the current Eurostar structure, and hope the planned restructuring to form a single integrated company should improve the situation. They did not call for changes to the senior management, suggesting that this would only hinder the need to implement the report’s recommendations as soon as possible.

 

Welcoming the ‘comprehensive’ findings, the Eurostar Board committed to ensuring ‘that all of the review’s recommendations will be implemented as quickly as possible’, adding that ‘a series of actions is already underway’. More than £30m is being invested to ‘improve the resilience of the Eurostar trains during severe winter conditions’ as well as improving ‘passenger care during disruption and customer communication both inside and outside the Tunnel.’ Eurostar said £12m had already been earmarked for a new tunnel communications network.

 

Noting that the restructuring is ‘well advanced’, Eurostar agreed that this would pave the way for ‘greater consistency of service standards across the three countries’. Pending completion of the process, which will see him take over as Chairman of Eurostar International, the current Chief Executive Richard Brown will become Deputy Chairman from April 5, and Chief Operating Officer Nicolas Petrovic will take over as Chief Executive from the same date. Richard Morris, who was at one time Railway Operations Director for Eurotunnel, has been brought in to a new post as Director of Business & Service Continuity, responsible for implementing the improvements recommended by the review.

[quinntopia]

Man...I hope they get it fixed by June 27th!  I'm taking the family and I'd hate to go through that experience!

[westfalen]

Man...I hope they get it fixed by June 27th!  I'm taking the family and I'd hate to go through that experience!

Hope they are quicker than that, I'm going through on 4th May.

 

I'm always amazed at the comparison of the Channel Tunnels problems to the seeming ease of which JR operates the Seikan Tunnel. How many times since it opened in 1988 has it been in the news?

[Mudkip Orange]

How many owners has it had? Wasn't the original Channel Tunnel partially financed by a private operator, who then went bankrupt and passed it to another operator, which itself has now gone under?

[disturbman]

Like I said before, I don't think the problem is the tunnel itself but more the Eurostar trains (and the way Eurostar/Eurotunnel dealt with the problems). The Eurostars are over complicated trains. They need to be able to run in France, the UK and Belgium. And for that purpose need to be equiped with French, English and Belgian compliant protection system and overhead catenary. This can lead to very complicated and sensible trains and/or locs. For exemple, and until recently, Eurostars were all fitted with third rail pick up (whih is kind of crazy for a HST).

 

It's also true that those trains seems a lot less reliable than two years ago. Maybe Eurostar have a serious maintenance problem and/or those trains really need to be retrofited. Except those exceptionnal problems the service is quite fine.

 

I think the situation is much simpler in Japan.

 

@Mudkip: read this (and the connex articles), it should give you some insights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurotunnel

[railzilla]

It is not that the Eurostart are overcomplicated. A TGV set would have the same problem. It is very simple at low temperatures snow crystals are very small and can pass the airfilters. TGV/Eurostar have very large airfilters on their sides, but they let relative large particles pass trough. The snow then accumulates in the machine compartment. As long as it is freezing cold there is no problem. In the Tunnel it is much warmer than outside. Snow becomes water. Water and Electricity mix and the whole thing stops.   

[westfalen]

It is not that the Eurostart are overcomplicated. A TGV set would have the same problem. It is very simple at low temperatures snow crystals are very small and can pass the airfilters. TGV/Eurostar have very large airfilters on their sides, but they let relative large particles pass trough. The snow then accumulates in the machine compartment. As long as it is freezing cold there is no problem. In the Tunnel it is much warmer than outside. Snow becomes water. Water and Electricity mix and the whole thing stops.   

What surprises me, (well no, it doesn't really), is that the highly paid, highly qualified engineers who designed the trains couldn't see this simple problem coming. Heated tunnel, freezing European winter outside, doh.

[Nozomi]

What surprises me, (well no, it doesn't really), is that the highly paid, highly qualified engineers who designed the trains couldn't see this simple problem coming. Heated tunnel, freezing European winter outside, doh.

 

Well these trains are operational since at least 10 years ago, I haven't noticed any bigger problems before 2008/2009. So the question is why the trains don't perform as they used to do. Changes (cost savings) in maintenance maybe...

[railzilla]

What surprises me, (well no, it doesn't really), is that the highly paid, highly qualified engineers who designed the trains couldn't see this simple problem coming. Heated tunnel, freezing European winter outside, doh.

 

Well actually the engineer did foresee the problems. And there where also countermeasures for it. They made a winter preparation for the trains which included an installment of an additional airfilter to prevent the problem. But some even higher paid accountant, controler or consultant decided that it is not necessary anymore.

As an engineer i can assure you that most problems in any company are created in the financial department and not in the technical.

There are much higher requirements to become engineer than controller or consultant.

[Guest ___]

It is not that the Eurostart are overcomplicated. A TGV set would have the same problem. It is very simple at low temperatures snow crystals are very small and can pass the airfilters. TGV/Eurostar have very large airfilters on their sides, but they let relative large particles pass trough. The snow then accumulates in the machine compartment. As long as it is freezing cold there is no problem. In the Tunnel it is much warmer than outside. Snow becomes water. Water and Electricity mix and the whole thing stops.   

What surprises me, (well no, it doesn't really), is that the highly paid, highly qualified engineers who designed the trains couldn't see this simple problem coming. Heated tunnel, freezing European winter outside, doh.

 

It's amazingly easy to oversee something. When rebuilding the tracks north to NYC along the NEC, Amtrak engineers failed to keep in account that the tilt mechanism would change the space required between the tracks and the cantary poles. As a result, Acela trains are not permitted to run over 119 on most curves between DC and NYC.