ESU Signal Pilot

[inobu]

So, I'm preparing for the Unitram build and wanted to run Signal on that layout. This is the unit I got instead of the egg patties.

I had to jump through a few hoops but I was able to get what I needed going.

 

I must admit more and more it (ESU) is an easier system as most of the supporting elements are ready to go.

The image below sums it up

 

I found the basic JR Signaling Aspect as started to build my own signaling interface. The image to the right

are the 5 basic types used in Japan. If you look in the bottom left I add the first Type. That is the 5 Light type.

 

After building that signal head you just have to drag and drop the signal to the Device area and the program

will make the assignments.   In this case I used addresses 256 so testing will be easier with JMRI as I have

the Digitrax system set up already.

 

All of this information will be downloaded to the SignalPilot and it is ready to go.

 

 

I just need to make my own Signal heads and its done. After that its putting it all together.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

After thinking about it the Tram needs Traffic Signals verses Rail Signals. It is the combination of street lights and rail lights

that are on the tram routes. This lead me to create 2 signal groups. One for the tram and one for the rail.

JR Signals and JR Tram Signals.

 

 

It was a little confusing in the beginning as you have to group the Aspects with the type or number of lights the signal head has.

As you can see the Type 4 Head has the same number of lights but their color sequence creates two different signal aspects.

 

After coding all the aspects in I understand how the LED's are controlled so the trams addition should be easier.

 

Signal Pilot

 

Essentially, you can graphically design the Signal head that you have or want and enter them in the listing. You can drag the signal into

the mapping area and the program will make the wiring assignments. From there you can tie it into your layout.

 

If you are flashing, dimming or what ever to the LED's your settings are programed into the SignalPilot. and it will operate the lights

accordingly.

 

 

This is the ECoS commands station that the Signal Pilots work with.

 

 

It has a track plan that brings everything together. 

 

 

Next up is the test mock up. I'll show the ECoS and Signal Pilot connected together.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by inobu

[chadbag]

Is this unit workable with other command stations over DCC?  I know nothing about signaling and how it works.

 

[inobu]

33 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Is this unit workable with other command stations over DCC?  I know nothing about signaling and how it works.

 

The initial input comes from the track connection but its replies and responds via Railcom. You can program it via POM and the LokProgrammer so it might run on other track systems. The only issue may be the loss of the Railcom features. I'll verify that when I get the mock up configured.

 

Inobu

Edited June 6, 2021 by inobu

[inobu]

Here is the basic heads first. I will do the tram heads after I work out any design flaws here. These seem to be easier.

I'll make some paper mock ups to dial the size in afterward I'll run the first article and make the LED boards next.

 

 

 

Inobu

[gavino200]

Nice. Are you modeling a specific prototype? Or is this a proof of concept?

[inobu]

Mark Vogle created an excellent JR Signal poster with all the aspects

 

 

 

Inobu

 

[MeTheSwede]

That poster looks very interesting, but I don't really understand anything.

 

Is there any useful resourse out there for people like me who wants to learn the basics of Japanese signals (and maybe signs and stuff too)?

[PkSignalPilot]

On 6/6/2021 at 9:01 PM, inobu said:

The initial input comes from the track connection but its replies and responds via Railcom. You can program it via POM and the LokProgrammer so it might run on other track systems. The only issue may be the loss of the Railcom features. I'll verify that when I get the mock up configured.

 

Inobu

 

Hi, I just found your posting. Got a question about the Signal Pilot: via POM and Railcom, Ok. But I presume as well via the program track same procedure...(or?) I've difficulties to connect the Signal Pilot to the track. Would you be able to give me direction how to do this in staccato?? My varia of signals (Brawa, Viessmann and Busch) are working fine on the Signal Pilot in combination with the Loc Pilot. But know it needs to communicate with my tracks. Hopefully you can help me out! Thx in advance. Paul

[inobu]

The Signal Pilot is basically decoder. You connect it to the track and it powers up just like any other decoder. The commands are read from the track but it's responses

are sent over Railcom. 

 

It has 2 inputs

 

Trk A - Trk B is the communication link. It uses the DCC signal as a command link to receive DCC commands sent from the Command Station.

 

Pw A - Pw B is the power input. This is a unique connection. It can use the DCC track signal to power itself. In this case you can tap the power from the track.

                                                       The B O is the Right and Left track or Trk A and B. A more realistic connection would show the wires coming from a tapped 

                                                       from a feeder.

           

         

 

You can also use an external power supply if you do not want to weigh or use your track power resources.

 

 

Let me know if this is what you are looking for if not ask away.

 

What command station do you have.

 

Inobu

 

 

[PkSignalPilot]

32 minutes ago, inobu said:

The Signal Pilot is basically decoder. You connect it to the track and it powers up just like any other decoder. The commands are read from the track but it's responses

are sent over Railcom. 

 

It has 2 inputs

 

Trk A - Trk B is the communication link. It uses the DCC signal as a command link to receive DCC commands sent from the Command Station.

 

Pw A - Pw B is the power input. This is a unique connection. It can use the DCC track signal to power itself. In this case you can tap the power from the track.

                                                       The B O is the Right and Left track or Trk A and B. A more realistic connection would show the wires coming from a tapped 

                                                       from a feeder.

           

         

 

You can also use an external power supply if you do not want to weigh or use your track power resources.

 

 

Let me know if this is what you are looking for if not ask away.

 

What command station do you have.

 

Inobu

 

 

Thx a lot, Inobu! Really appreciate your help. I'm working with a ESU Ecos2 station plus iTrain. The connection you described is known to me. My problem is...I've connected (& I've got working when they are attached to the Loc Pilot) a couple of signals of various brands (Brawa, Viessmann, etc, and which are connected to the Signal Pilot.  Now I've to find out the next step. I disconnected the Loc Pilot, and connected the Signal Pilot to the tracks as you described. Actually first to my program track, because I want to test the situation first. I created a signal in the Ecos and 'the same' signal in iTrain. But what I do miss (my mistake of course) is how to get the digital content to the Ecos, etc. There is a program button on the Signal Pilot, probably you have to use this one to get the digital content to the track. Because in my situation, the signal(s) are not responding at all. The leds are burning -yes-, but that's it. btw: Railcom is switched on, in my Ecos2. What are the next steps in my process? Thanks in advance!!! 

Cheers, Paul - Rotterdam

 

[inobu]

Ok, I see. You need the Lok Programmer so you can configure your Signal Pilot.

 

You create a project so you can program the Signal Pilot

 

 

 

You then assign the signal that you want to use. The Lights are assign switch/turnout addresses that the Signal Pilot will see from the Trk A-B input.

It will the change the light condition based on the type you configured.

 

In the example below I used turnout 257 and 258. Notice how the light association is made with the signaling condition.

 

 

 

 

You can make the lights flash, dim or what ever you need. 

 

Although to can program the basics you really need to Lok programmer to configure the Signal Pilot

 

 

 

Do you have the Lok Programmer?

Inobu

[PkSignalPilot]

34 minutes ago, inobu said:

Ok, I see. You need the Lok Programmer so you can configure your Signal Pilot.

 

You create a project so you can program the Signal Pilot

 

 

 

You then assign the signal that you want to use. The Lights are assign switch/turnout addresses that the Signal Pilot will see from the Trk A-B input.

It will the change the light condition based on the type you configured.

 

In the example below I used turnout 257 and 258. Notice how the light association is made with the signaling condition.

 

 

 

 

You can make the lights flash, dim or what ever you need. 

 

Although to can program the basics you really need to Lok programmer to configure the Signal Pilot

 

 

 

Do you have the Lok Programmer?

Inobu

Yes, I've ...and moreover: I did it already as you described. But now, what will be the next step. To my mind, disconnect the LocProgrammer, but keep the TRK A and B, and PW A and PW B connected with each other. Then, at my Ecos 2 ...Railcom I switch on.  The Signal Pilot is connected to the track. 

I programmed on my Ecos2 a signal (and even so in iTrain) Those two are working together perfectly. The train on the track also response to the input (stops when the virtual signal in iTrain/Ecos flips!!)  BUT, the actual hardware -my signal of e.g. Viessmann I not responding, although the leds are burning.

So, what I expect the the digital input given in the pre-et activity with the LocPilot, is NOT given to the Ecos2. I presume you need to do something with the program button on the Signal Pilot to make it all work? Or is this a mismatch in my brain 🙂

Cheers, Paul

[inobu]

What address did you assign to the signal lights?

 

Inobu

 

[PkSignalPilot]

14 minutes ago, inobu said:

What address did you assign to the signal lights?

 

Inobu

 

The fist one is the Andreas cross (leds blinking) with the Address: 90 ( 1= red 2 = green), the second one is a simple block signal with the Address 91 (3 = red 4 = green), the I've got a more complex signal with the Address 92 (using 5 -6 -7- 8- 9 ,because it's an HV 'Ausfahrt' signal HP00/HP1/HP0 + SH1 / HP2)

 

[inobu]

That sounds right.

 

You should be able to Throw and Close Switch/Turnout address 90 and cause the Light to change.

 

If that does not work then you need to check the way the power is configured.

 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

Inobu

[PkSignalPilot]

9 minutes ago, inobu said:

That sounds right.

 

You should be able to Throw and Close Switch/Turnout address 90 and cause the Light to change.

 

If that does not work then you need to check the way the power is configured.

 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

Inobu

Oeps, that might be the 'golden' tip! Indeed, it's the same when you want to connect a Viessmann signal to re-decode a required number. Gonna check this out a.s.a.p. Will keep in touch!

 

[PkSignalPilot]

3 hours ago, inobu said:

That sounds right.

 

You should be able to Throw and Close Switch/Turnout address 90 and cause the Light to change.

 

If that does not work then you need to check the way the power is configured.

 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

Inobu

I'm really sorry ...can't get it working. Tried EVERYTHING! No idea, what's wrong. Going to leave it for 1/2 days now. Need two refresh my mind 🙂 

[inobu]

I'm working on a project. When I finish I try to find a Viessmann signal and set it up. 

 

Inobu

[PkSignalPilot]

6 hours ago, inobu said:

I'm working on a project. When I finish I try to find a Viessmann signal and set it up. 

 

Inobu

Very much appreciated!! But take your time (this is a hobby, which brings you + and - ....:-) Nevertheless, it's a learning process!

 

[PkSignalPilot]

On 10/26/2021 at 2:53 AM, inobu said:

I'm working on a project. When I finish I try to find a Viessmann signal and set it up. 

 

Inobu

Hi, I found out the following last night/today.

If I connected the Signal Pilot to the Ecos 'straight away' and no OTHER devices who need power (read: the track) is connected: IT ALL WORKS!

But as soon the track is connected the signal is 'jammed: the signal will not switch at all. Leds are burning, tough...

In other words, it has something do do with the 'required' voltage. Additional info: the voltage on my track is 18.6 (should be enough to my mind)  Any ideas?

[inobu]

Start adding pieces one by until the trouble stats that way you can isolate the problem.

 

If the voltage is good then it is a quality issue.  (noise)

 

Inobu

[PkSignalPilot]

9 hours ago, inobu said:

Start adding pieces one by until the trouble stats that way you can isolate the problem.

 

If the voltage is good then it is a quality issue.  (noise)

 

Inobu

Hi Steve, you're absolutely right. It must be 'troubled' by another source. I will start the research proces. It can't be anything else, as the signals are working fine when the Signal Pilot is connected to the Ecos2 (and no further devices, including my track(s) are connected to the Ecs2) Will be continued 🙂