Kato 4090 0 Series Shinkansen 6-car set

[gavino200]

I have this set. I bought it from @Kiha66. I like it and it runs well. It's an old set and I'm about to replace the lights with the new upgrade kit (if they fit this old model). 

 

I increased it to a longer by buying a later 0 - 2000 series set. But the numbers don't match, and there are visual differences. So I ordered the basic 0-2000 set from the upcoming release to make my 2000 a full set. 

 

At first I thought of selling this set. But it would be nice to run two zeros at once. My question: is there/was there ever an addon set to go with this 6 car set? Or was the 6 car set prototypical? 

 

 

 

[disturbman]

Looking at Yahoo Closed Search, it appears that these were sold as single cars. The fourth picture of this listing gives you the 16-car composition: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k552608487. You'll have to parse the correspondance between item number and car denomination. Sets of individual cars seem to land on YJA once every three weeks or so.

 

Honestly, I would just sell this or keep it as a museum piece.

Edited May 28, 2021 by disturbman

[jappomania]

cut & paste from my "Shinkansen bible"....

 

Kato 0 series

 

first release 1984

10-078 (10078 or S4091)    0-2000 series Shinkansen 4-cars basic set (21+37+16+22)
10-136 (10136 or S4090)    0-2000 series Shinkansen 6 cars basic set (21+26+37+16+25+22)
(old Kato items code in standard box with N mark and slightly light green tone compared with the next gen dark green or silver/blue paper box for 4 car set)

 

all the single cars are avalaible to complete one "fake" Yk or Nh series

(in the real life a 16 cars Shinkansen has never been built with only 0-2000 subseries cars, normally was a mix of 0-1000-2000 subseries excluding formation N97>99 originally formed by 0-1000 cars)

 

4090 > 21-2000 head car

4091 > 22-2000 head car

4092 > 25-2000 trailer car

4093 > 26-2000 trailer car

4094 > 27-1000 trailer car

4095 > 15-1000 trailer car

4096 > 16-2000 trailer car

4097 > 36-1000 trailer car

4098 > 37-2500 trailer car (motorized)

(in regular kato jewel case with silver/blue paper sleeve, to be correct, the declared 26-2000 car is a 26-2200 type)

 

re-release with improved pantograph, better painting, marks, new sticker sheet, also 25-2000 and 26-2000 single cars are released with the same improvement

10-453 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars base set
10-454 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars add-on set

4092-1 > 25-2000 trailer car (in regular kato jewel case with dark green paper sleeve)
4093-1 > 26-2000 trailer car (in regular kato jewel case with dark green paper sleeve

 

set 10-453 was later splited in

10-1132    0-2000 series Shinkansen 50th anniversary 4 cars basic set

10-016      0 Shinkansen Starter Set 50th anniversary 4 cars basic set (same cars as 10-1132)
10-1133    0-2000 series Shinkansen 50th anniversary 4 add-on set

it's the same content of 10-453 set, just a different package with anniversary logo, nothing has been improved, obviously other add-on cars are the same.

 

last one.. with LED light (kit available for the old release) and improved painting/lettering

10-1700 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars base set
10-1701 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars add-on set

 

BTW the Kato 0-2000 is the more simplified version of all the Shinkansen still released (old Tomix, Gakken, Endo car formations was incompleted but the cars where reproduced correctly, just the Tomix 0-2000 still survive like Kato, improved but wrong....), Kato use the same rooftop and lower chassis for all the cars, for that reason 15-16-27-36-37 cars doesn't match the real prototype
the cars released in the first batch are the same released now (basically same mold) excluding the facelifting and minor improvement, but is not a good idea to mix the cars from different release, probably the original blu and cream tone is the same, but after 10-20 years... (panto and lettering can be manual improved - original or third part spare parts/add-on - but the final result depend of modelers skills)
if you want, you can obtain the same train composition with the first, or "middle" or last release, the only part that sometime suffer yellowing is the cone nose

 

(I'm not sure, but probably more starter set exist, but I'm not interested...normally is the same content as basic set)

 

.....

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by jappomania

[gavino200]

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

cut & paste from my "Shinkansen bible"....

 

That sounds like something to have. Is it something you made yourself? Where can I get a copy of these holy scriptures?

 

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

 

Kato 0 series

 

first release 1984

10-078 (10078 or S4091)    0-2000 series Shinkansen 4-cars basic set (21+37+16+22)
10-136 (10136 or S4090)    0-2000 series Shinkansen 6 cars basic set (21+26+37+16+25+22)
(old Kato items code in standard box with N mark and slightly light green tone compared with the next gen dark green or silver/blue paper box for 4 car set)

 

all the single cars are avalaible to complete one "fake" Yk or Nh series

(in the real life a 16 cars Shinkansen has never been built with only 0-2000 subseries cars, normally was a mix of 0-1000-2000 subseries excluding formation N97>99 originally formed by 0-1000 cars)

 

4090 > 21-2000 head car

4091 > 22-2000 head car

4092 > 25-2000 trailer car

4093 > 26-2000 trailer car

4094 > 27-1000 trailer car

4095 > 15-1000 trailer car

4096 > 16-2000 trailer car

4097 > 36-1000 trailer car

4098 > 37-2500 trailer car (motorized)

(in regular kato jewel case with silver/blue paper sleeve, to be correct, the declared 26-2000 car is a 26-2200 type)

 

So this is the version I have? Old number 4090/New Number 10-078? I have the first release 6 car basic set? From 1984? Wow, I'm impressed. I actually like it more, knowing that. It runs amazingly well for a 37 year old train. Actually, it runs really well period. 

 

And it's also a 0-2000 set? And if I wanted to complete the set I'd need to acquire: 

 

4092 > 25-2000 trailer car

4094 > 27-1000 trailer car

4095 > 15-1000 trailer car

4097 > 36-1000 trailer car

 

To make a total train length of 10 cars. That's all that's possible. Or does one by multiples of some cars? The two digit numbers refer to car types? Not individual car numbers. Does your bible have diagrams of train formations? 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

 

re-release with improved pantograph, better painting, marks, new sticker sheet, also 25-2000 and 26-2000 single cars are released with the same improvement

10-453 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars base set
10-454 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars add-on set

4092-1 > 25-2000 trailer car (in regular kato jewel case with dark green paper sleeve)
4093-1 > 26-2000 trailer car (in regular kato jewel case with dark green paper sleeve

 

Same molds but nicer details and paint? But this time 16 cars? Are car 25 and 26 double deckers? What's special about them? Are they also included in the sets? 

 

 

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

 

set 10-453 was later splited in

10-1132    0-2000 series Shinkansen 50th anniversary 4 cars basic set

10-016      0 Shinkansen Starter Set 50th anniversary 4 cars basic set (same cars as 10-1132)
10-1133    0-2000 series Shinkansen 50th anniversary 4 add-on set

it's the same content of 10-453 set, just a different package with anniversary logo, nothing has been improved, obviously other add-on cars are the same.

 

But this is a 12 car train, whereas 10-453 seems to be a 16 car train (or 18???)

 

 

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

 

last one.. with LED light (kit available for the old release) and improved painting/lettering

10-1700 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars base set
10-1701 > 0-2000 series Shinkansen 8-cars add-on set

 

This year's release. ?

The same as 10-453? 

I actually bought the upgrade kit hoping it will work for my set? (10-136) Will it? From what you say, it sounds like it should. 

 

 

So all the Kato Zero series releases have been (pseudo) 0-2000 releases? 

 

9 hours ago, jappomania said:

 

BTW the Kato 0-2000 is the more simplified version of all the Shinkansen still released (old Tomix, Gakken, Endo car formations was incompleted but the cars where reproduced correctly, just the Tomix 0-2000 still survive like Kato, improved but wrong....), Kato use the same rooftop and lower chassis for all the cars, for that reason 15-16-27-36-37 cars doesn't match the real prototype

 

 

I've never heard of Gakken or Endo. I'll have to look them up. 

 

So the simplifications of the Kato model are:

1. Same rooftop mold for all cars, while the prototype roofs differ. 

2. Same lower chassis for all cars, while the prototype chassis differ. 

 

Are there other differences? 

 

 

 

[Kamome]

41 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

But this is a 12 car train, whereas 10-453 seems to be a 16 car train (or 18???)

10-453/454 is a 16 car formation as it’s the version I have.

 

41 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

actually bought the upgrade kit hoping it will work for my set? (10-136) Will it? From what you say, it sounds like it should. 

I don’t think the design has changed since the first release so the upgrade set should fit. 

 

The newest released version documentation may help with consist ideas.

 

https://s3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/kato-model/schedule/pdf/202103111450236049af9f2e72c/0kei2000.pdf

 

16 car Hikari

16 car Kodama

12 car Kodama

Edited May 28, 2021 by Kamome

[gavino200]

38 minutes ago, Kamome said:

 

The newest released version documentation may help with consist ideas.

 

https://s3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/kato-model/schedule/pdf/202103111450236049af9f2e72c/0kei2000.pdf

 

Thanks. I may collect 6 single cars to turn my ancient set into a 12 Kodama. Then I can run two Zero sets at once. 🙂

[jappomania]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

That sounds like something to have. Is it something you made yourself? Where can I get a copy of these holy scriptures?

 

nothing holy, it's just the list of the Shinkansen I collected in the last 20years ( 🤒 shinkansen-ite),  if you want a copy is not a big trouble, it just need to be updated with the last items.

 

Quote

 

So this is the version I have? Old number 4090/New Number 10-078? I have the first release 6 car basic set? From 1984? Wow, I'm impressed. I actually like it more, knowing that. It runs amazingly well for a 37 year old train. Actually, it runs really well period. 

 

And it's also a 0-2000 set? And if I wanted to complete the set I'd need to acquire: 

 

4092 > 25-2000 trailer car

4094 > 27-1000 trailer car

4095 > 15-1000 trailer car

4097 > 36-1000 trailer car

 

To make a total train length of 10 cars. That's all that's possible. Or does one by multiples of some cars? The two digit numbers refer to car types? Not individual car numbers. Does your bible have diagrams of train formations? 

 

sorry, I can't see wich set you bought (link to ebay is dead for me) but I think you have the S4090 or the 10-136

(same train, first batch in green book with big Ntrain logo only, second batch with 10-136 code printed on dark green book)

if you have time I try to find the original pamphlet inside the book, it's not a joke, I know I bought the trains but sometime I don't remeber where are stored, but for the train formation I assume what Kato wrote in his instructions

 

21-26-25-26-25-26-27-36-37-26-15-16-25-26-25-22 for 16 cars set

21-26-25-26-37-26-25-16-25-26-25-22 for 12 cars set

 

if you have the 4 or 6 basic set you just need to find the "missing" numbers (you need more cars type 25 and 26, just one of the type 27, 36 and 15)

4-cars basic set (21+37+16+22)
6 cars basic set (21+26+37+16+25+22)

 

the same cars formation is still in use with the last one (released the past month)

 

 

is the same for 10-453+104 (see below)

 

 

 

my "bible" doesn't contain train formation or description about cars type because I bought a lot of books that explain all (in japanese, of course) and the history of Zero like 200 is the much complex compared with the next gen (from 100 till now), too much to translate

some infos are also available on-line like the train formations (from 1964 till now...)

http://kodama473.g2.xrea.com/siryou/tokai-sanyo/ts-first.html

or the models comparison (Speedsphere rulez!)

http://www.speedsphere.jp/RailRoad/Shinkansen/Tec0SeriesModelOverview01.aspx

 

 

Quote

Same molds but nicer details and paint? But this time 16 cars? Are car 25 and 26 double deckers? What's special about them? Are they also included in the sets? 

 

like you see above cars formations don't change, 16 or 12 cars, no, double decker, for zero doesn't exist, new pantos, the old was molded in a single plastic grey piece and has been replaced with the new one with white insulator base + mobile scissor arms, cars number printed

 

Quote

But this is a 12 car train, whereas 10-453 seems to be a 16 car train (or 18???)

 

 

wait....

 

10-453 + 10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-453 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

or

10-1132+10-1133+10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-016+10-1133+10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-1132+10-1133 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

10-016+10-1133 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

 

obviously, finding the renewed single cars is (and was) not so easy, but you can use only half 10-454 if you want... 

 

 

 

Quote

This year's release. ?

The same as 10-453? 

I actually bought the upgrade kit hoping it will work for my set? (10-136) Will it? From what you say, it sounds like it should. 

 

of course, it "work" because is the same mold with the old Arnold coupler, mechanically nothing change, but color apart ( new paint ws 40 years old paint, do you think the cream/blue tone can be 100% match? I hope for you...) visually change the panto and the printed cars numbers

 

the cars content of 10-453 and 10-454 is the same as 10-1700 and 10-1701 (and that's the reason because this time I've not bought this train) 

 

 

Quote

So all the Kato Zero series releases have been (pseudo) 0-2000 releases? 

 

right! like you can see on the website above, one 16 or 12 cars formation composed with only 0-2000 subseries cars doesn't exist, after JNR split you can see 12, 6 or 4 cars (Sk, R, Q) but again not with only 0-2000 subseries cars, maybe a mix with old 0 and 1000 or renewed 5000 / 7000 subseries etc...(and different paint)

 

Quote

I've never heard of Gakken or Endo. I'll have to look them up. 

 

are just collectors items (1978-1982), the 0 and 0-1000 from MA or Tomix are better 😋

 

Quote

So the simplifications of the Kato model are:

1. Same rooftop mold for all cars, while the prototype roofs differ. 

2. Same lower chassis for all cars, while the prototype chassis differ. 

 

well.. 2 type of roof (with and without panto) and lower chassis, car type 25 and 26 are correctly reproduced

 

Quote

Are there other differences?

 

no, I dont' think (or better, I don't remeber...)

 

that's all.....?

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by jappomania

[gavino200]

25 minutes ago, jappomania said:

 

nothing holy, it's just the list of the Shinkansen I collected in the last 20years ( 🤒 shinkansen-ite),  if you want a copy is not a big trouble, it just need to be updated with the last items.

 

Absolutely. Yes I'd love to have a copy.

 

 

 

Quote

 

sorry, I can't see wich set you bought (link to ebay is dead for me) but I think you have the S4090 or the 10-136

(same train, first batch in green book with big Ntrain logo only, second batch with 10-136 code printed on dark green book)

if you have time I try to find the original pamphlet inside the book, it's not a joke, I know I bought the trains but sometime I don't remeber where are stored, but for the train formation I assume what Kato wrote in his instructions

 

Yes, my set is the one in the green book with the big Ntrain logo. I just realized I have the original pamphlet. With the information you gave me, I can now understand it.  It shows me exactly what cars I need to get to make a 16 car kodama or hikari. I think I'll go for the 12 car kodama, though for variety. Same same but different. I like that. My set has no numbers attached but I bet I'll have extra numbers with my other set and the one coming. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

21-26-25-26-25-26-27-36-37-26-15-16-25-26-25-22 for 16 cars set

21-26-25-26-37-26-25-16-25-26-25-22 for 12 cars set

 

if you have the 4 or 6 basic set you just need to find the "missing" numbers (you need more cars type 25 and 26, just one of the type 27, 36 and 15)

4-cars basic set (21+37+16+22)
6 cars basic set (21+26+37+16+25+22)

 

the same cars formation is still in use with the last one (released the past month)

 

 

is the same for 10-453+104 (see below)

 

 

 

Ah yes, I understand now. Thanks 🙂

 

Quote

 

 

my "bible" doesn't contain train formation or description about cars type because I bought a lot of books that explain all (in japanese, of course) and the history of Zero like 200 is the much complex compared with the next gen (from 100 till now), too much to translate

some infos are also available on-line like the train formations (from 1964 till now...)

http://kodama473.g2.xrea.com/siryou/tokai-sanyo/ts-first.html

or the models comparison (Speedsphere rulez!)

http://www.speedsphere.jp/RailRoad/Shinkansen/Tec0SeriesModelOverview01.aspx

 

 

 

like you see above cars formations don't change, 16 or 12 cars, no, double decker, for zero doesn't exist, new pantos, the old was molded in a single plastic grey piece and has been replaced with the new one with white insulator base + mobile scissor arms, cars number printed

 

 

 

Thanks 🙂

 

Quote

wait....

 

10-453 + 10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-453 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

or

10-1132+10-1133+10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-016+10-1133+10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

10-1132+10-1133 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

10-016+10-1133 + 2 x 4092-1 (25) + 2 x 4093-1 (26) if you want the 12 cars set

 

obviously, finding the renewed single cars is (and was) not so easy, but you can use only half 10-454 if you want... 

 

 

 

I'm going for: 

10-453 + 10-454 if you want the 16 cars set

Plus 

S4090 + 6 individual cars for a 12 car set. I have an extra Kato box to use. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

are just collectors items (1978-1982), the 0 and 0-1000 from MA or Tomix are better 😋

 

 

well.. 2 type of roof (with and without panto) and lower chassis, car type 25 and 26 are correctly reproduced

 

 

no, I dont' think (or better, I don't remeber...)

 

that's all.....?

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

 

Thanks for all the info, Massimo!

Edited May 29, 2021 by gavino200

[gavino200]

I received my new Shinkansen O Series Basic Set. I was very curious to see how similar it was to the very first release. Apart from having two more cars in the set, it's almost identical. There's a very small size difference with the headlights, and there's the slightest color difference. I think I actually prefer the color of the old set, but the new set is a better match for my newer add-on set. The level of detail is fine for me so I'm happy with it, but definitely the undercarriage details are better on newer models. 

 

Ironically my new set has rapido couplers, which I love, while the old set has some kind of fancy aesthetically pleasing close couplers fitted by @Kiha66. I'll probably keep the old set, but I'm still considering selling it. I'm becoming more fond of it now that I know it's vintage. I'm also very curious to compare how it runs to the new set. I may eventually collect a complete set of cars for it, so I can run two zeros at once in opposite directions. 

 

 

 

[Yavianice]

The color difference might be the age difference also.

 

Could you perhaps put the two cabin cars side by side so we can see the differences?

[gavino200]

As you wish 🙂

 

You can tell the new version by it's rapido coupler. 

Other differences:

Color difference in pantograph insulator. Grey for old, white for new.

Head light size difference

New version has printed car numbers

New version has green cabin interior. 

Color difference may be from aging as suggested by Ya. The new white color has the slightest blueish/greenish tint to it that I don't seen in photos of the prototype. The older model is more creamy white, which I actually prefer. The nose cone color difference is almost certainly aging, however I think it looks good. 

 

 

New above, old below

 

 

 

 

 

New left, old right

 

 

Old left, New right

 

 

 

 

[disturbman]

Aesthetically, I think I’m like you, I prefer the color of the older set.

 

I see that Kato, like Tomix, likes shiny pizza cutters.

[Kiha66]

Thanks for sharing the comparison Gavin. Amazing how some models stand up even after 20+ years.  The upgraded couplers are kato part 11-703 and I think they really add a lot to the looks of EMU sets.  I'm surprised kato didn't include them with the new set from the factory. 

 

Overall seems like a good model and worth kato re-releasing it, but I'm not sure it had enough changes to need the new product number.

[jappomania]

wait...the old has been updated (is not like factory sale), originally the panto was molded in a single gray piece and the scissor wasn't mobile, in your set  apart the coupler (arnold type in origin)  the pantos are the upgraded version on sale with the 10-453/10-454 set, the single insulator is grey because it was on sale separately (for a complete upgrade you need to order 2 different codes, panto+insulator)

if you plan to buy add-on cars verify if the cars are in factory or updated conditions, otherwise you need also the relative spare parts (panto and insulator are available now, but like all the spare parts for limited time till sold out...)

 

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

[gavino200]

Than makes sense. I think @Kiha66 may have mentioned something about the pantographs. I bet he changed them. There are two extra pantographs in the box. I'm guessing they sell them as sets of 8? But the old basic set is a six car set, so two extras? 

[jappomania]

for my "Kato" experience,  normally are 2 in a single bag...  (Shinkansen, TGV, locos etc...)

 

[Kiha66]

23 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Than makes sense. I think @Kiha66 may have mentioned something about the pantographs. I bet he changed them. There are two extra pantographs in the box. I'm guessing they sell them as sets of 8? But the old basic set is a six car set, so two extras? 

 

Yep, originally it came with the solid plastic pantographs, but I upgraded it to the modern working pantographs.  I may still have the original solid parts somewhere if you need them. 

[Kamome]

8 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Ironically my new set has rapido couplers,

It’s interesting that even the newest released set still has rapidos and no car diaphragms. But also impressive that the 20+ year old design still holds up pretty well. The couplers are easy to switch out for Shibata type ones. I decided on the ones with air hoses. 11-703

This was also the case with the Kato 200系.  Black for the zero and grey for the 200 (11-704) It helps reduce the gaps and you can then sort of forgive the lack of diaphragms. 

 

I guess the other big question was whether the upgrade set still fits. I assume it does.