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What makes a train set "rare"?

NozomiFan

By NozomiFan
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westfalen

westfalen

Posted
Posted

I don't know if I'd call the Kato E1 rare, just hard to find for sale these days. Kato probably churned out just as many of them as any other sets they were making at the time.

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disturbman

disturbman

Posted
Posted

For me that's exactly the definition of rare: "hard to find for sale these days". Maybe rare, it's a bit more... like "really hard to find for sale".

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to2leo

to2leo

Posted
Posted

A rare set should fall into one of more of the following categories:

-when demand trumps over supply

-when the supplier cannot or will not resupply.

-when the supply is not available to your country (though Internet is breaking down the physical barrier)

 

I did see Kato E1 selling at second hand hobby shops but none of them have an online address.

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jappomania

jappomania

Posted
Posted

Hi!

just my opinion, I think only 2-3 shinkansen set are very rare, the rest is only hard to find outside Japan, obviously, one old item is hard to find but depend who you search it, outside Japan the quantity of imported Shinkansen is limited, sometime has never sold outside Japan.

In the past 10 years I see that the limit is only how much you want pay.

On Yahoo auction in Japan in the last 3 week I see 4 different sellers to sell Kato E1 (start, add-on or both) and one complete old color Tomix E1 12 cars set (end price from 10000 to 18000JPY)

The very rare Shinkansen set is the old ENDO 200 fake set (is one 0 type painted in green/cream), I found only one set on auction in 10 years, I lost auction because the end price was over 30000JPY but I wait, maybe in the future...

The rest, if you have patience you can find it (you need only money and 8-10 months and the end price is not so bad, maybe similar to one new set excluding the special limited release)

(today I see one Tomix 0 fresh green, one Tomix 0 last run, one Tomix 100 last run for example)

 

ciao

Massimo

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Martijn Meerts

Martijn Meerts

Posted
Posted

Well, according to E-Bay and certain stores trying to sell trains at silly prices, I guess about 90% of my Japanese trains are "rare" ;)

 

I don't consider a train rare when it hasn't been in production for a long time, or when it's had a limited release (unless said limited release is like 50 of them or something like that.) Could be a certain batch had a production error, or an error in the lettering or something like that which would make it rare.

 

In case of Marklin, which is a brand that probably has more collectors than people who actually run the trains, rare are many of the pre-WW2 tin plate trains, and several trains with wrong lettering. "Limited" production runs, anniversary trains or special event trains are hardly ever considered rare.

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Bernard

Bernard

Posted
Posted

There is a book "Greenberg's American Toy Trains" that lists the value of the trains by year, condition, and model number. Most of the book is Lionel O gauge and Am. Flyer S gauge. The pre-war trains can be very expensive but in 1957 Lionel produced a Pink & pastel train set to attract girls into the hobby. It failed and had a limited run of one year and very few exist. Here is a photo of it:

http://www.lionel-train-set.com/images/1957%20Lionel%20Girls%20Pink%20Trains%20set%20in%20the%20boxes%20number%201587s.JPG

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bc6

bc6

Posted
Posted

Rare trains in my book are Series 100 Grand Hikari, Eizan Railway Type 900 "Kirara" Orange & RedTram. Both are to be re-released soon but I think its cool to have the 1st production run lol.

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to2leo

to2leo

Posted
Posted

There is a book "Greenberg's American Toy Trains" that lists the value of the trains by year, condition, and model number. Most of the book is Lionel O gauge and Am. Flyer S gauge. The pre-war trains can be very expensive but in 1957 Lionel produced a Pink & pastel train set to attract girls into the hobby. It failed and had a limited run of one year and very few exist. Here is a photo of it:

http://www.lionel-train-set.com/images/1957%20Lionel%20Girls%20Pink%20Trains%20set%20in%20the%20boxes%20number%201587s.JPG

 

What were they thinking!  Well at least I give them points for breaking the gender class.

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clem24

clem24

Posted
Posted

Rare is hardly a term I would use to describe Japanese trains. Their resale value (whether outside or inside of Japan) are usually abysmal. I think the better term is "hard to find". It's been said in this thread already - the Japanese seem to prefer to have the most up to date models. Case in point... Take a trip to Akihabara. What you thought was "rare" will more than likely be a commodity as all of the used shops. And they usually go for cheap too (well, to an outsider like most of us that have to pay new prices for used stuff + shipping).

 

A rare piece would probably be the Tomix Disneyland train in new condition. Everything else is just hard to find. Well... I suppose another "rare" item as well is the 16 car Sayonara 0 series set. The 100 series set is a dime a dozen. An example of what I thought was rare: any of the brown EF63 sets from Tomix. I managed to acquire all 3 sets (had to get a couple from ebay.de). But go to Japan and voila! In used shops. For cheap. And as an example of resale value: I recently picked up the original Tomix release of the ED61 on eBay - back when it was still being made by Bachmann. To complement my ED75 Tomix/Bachmann and C-Tank. Came in it's box and about as new/mint as can be. $30 USD. I've only seen this loco maybe one other time on eBay and it was in crappy condition. But items like this are generally unwanted (which makes it's rarity irrelevant to all but the most die hard collectors).

 

Maybe Japanese trains are like technology - new releases make the old stuff obsolete rather than wanted. Case in point: the Microace 100 series X1. Makes my minty "hard to find" Tomix 7 car set obsolete.  :laugh:

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jappomania

jappomania

Posted
Posted

Rare is hardly a term I would use to describe Japanese trains. Their resale value (whether outside or inside of Japan) are usually abysmal. I think the better term is "hard to find". It's been said in this thread already - the Japanese seem to prefer to have the most up to date models. Case in point... Take a trip to Akihabara. What you thought was "rare" will more than likely be a commodity as all of the used shops. And they usually go for cheap too (well, to an outsider like most of us that have to pay new prices for used stuff + shipping).

 

A rare piece would probably be the Tomix Disneyland train in new condition. Everything else is just hard to find. Well... I suppose another "rare" item as well is the 16 car Sayonara 0 series set. The 100 series set is a dime a dozen. An example of what I thought was rare: any of the brown EF63 sets from Tomix. I managed to acquire all 3 sets (had to get a couple from ebay.de). But go to Japan and voila! In used shops. For cheap. And as an example of resale value: I recently picked up the original Tomix release of the ED61 on eBay - back when it was still being made by Bachmann. To complement my ED75 Tomix/Bachmann and C-Tank. Came in it's box and about as new/mint as can be. $30 USD. I've only seen this loco maybe one other time on eBay and it was in crappy condition. But items like this are generally unwanted (which makes it's rarity irrelevant to all but the most die hard collectors).

 

Maybe Japanese trains are like technology - new releases make the old stuff obsolete rather than wanted. Case in point: the Microace 100 series X1. Makes my minty "hard to find" Tomix 7 car set obsolete.  :laugh:

 

not so rare...

http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r60189281

and not so hard to find (more than 10-12 this last year)

from the same seller

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f87740507 (combine shipping ?)

if you want I have 2 old Tomix X0 (92031) maybe I can sell one..... (of course the last Microace X1 is better but isn't the same train  :cheesy )

 

ciao

Massimo

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Claude_Dreyfus

Claude_Dreyfus

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your comments! Also, could I be ripped off if I by from Newhallstation.com?

 

Newhall do tend to advertise stuff as rare or limited. I have been hunting around for one of the Kato EF66-100s. At the time I could only find one at Newhall - for $139.99 (about £100.00) + p&p ! Fortunately I waited, and am now a proud owner of said locomotive having parted with about half that amount (all inclusive) from Hobby Search  :grin

 

Exhibit 'A' M'lud: http://www.newhallstation.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/698

Exhibit 'B': https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10042182

 

Their service is pretty good (although stuff does tend to take a million years to ship from the US - not their fault mind), and they seem pleasant enough, but yes they are extremely expensive!

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bill937ca

bill937ca

Posted
Posted

"Rare" or "hard to find" tends to be a function of the Japanese distribution system.  I work in a huge distribution center sprawling across acres and acres of land, sending items all across Canada.  There simply are no facilities like this in Japan.  Its a function of limited usable land space and high land prices.  Manufacturers produce items in short production runs, which often seem to sell out in 6 months or less.  The size of the production run is determined by pre-production reservations, dealer stock and wholesaler inventories. Distribution networks in Japan are dominated by small independent outlets to a much greater degree than in North America. Until the next production run the item is "hard to find", but if you treat it as "rare" and overpay you may find yourself with an expensive mistake when the next re-run is announced. Once items are discontinued and dropped from the catalog they may truly become rare.

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Guest ___

Guest ___

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your comments! Also, could I be ripped off if I by from Newhallstation.com?

 

Newhall do tend to advertise stuff as rare or limited. I have been hunting around for one of the Kato EF66-100s. At the time I could only find one at Newhall - for $139.99 (about £100.00) + p&p ! Fortunately I waited, and am now a proud owner of said locomotive having parted with about half that amount (all inclusive) from Hobby Search  :grin

 

Exhibit 'A' M'lud: http://www.newhallstation.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/698

Exhibit 'B': https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10042182

 

Their service is pretty good (although stuff does tend to take a million years to ship from the US - not their fault mind), and they seem pleasant enough, but yes they are extremely expensive!

 

 

Note, all the Newhall and shipping discussion has been split and relocated: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,2222.msg21129/boardseen.html#new

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Fat Al

Fat Al

Posted
Posted

When I found my Doraemon train at Chiyoda, I wasn't expecting to be able to buy it for only 12,000 yen (the box has seen better days, but the trains were in excellent condition). From what I know, that train set is certainly in demand, and certainly rare, but it didn't guarantee a decent resale value at all.

 

Can't ride the real train anymore because of the Shinkansen construction, the trainset was only made by one manufacturer, and unlikely to be reproduced. I suppose that's rare enough.

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