Are all blue KoKis the same shade of blue?

[gavino200]

Mainly I'm talking about the 102/3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tomix-92135-JR-Container-Wagon-KOKI-102-KOKI-103-x-2-4-Car-Set-N-Scale-New/331872922952?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6a3ff8b0e29f46ca827e848fff7bad5d%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D174696457072%26itm%3D331872922952%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DTomix&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A2fe9cf43-9e26-11eb-9ebd-c26309560ba3|parentrq%3Ad7252e491780a7b1092129b4ffee8524|iid%3A1

 

versus the 104 - are they the same shade or different shades of blue?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KATO-N-scale-Koki-104-2-Car-Set-10-317-Model-Railroad-Car/333408622989?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6a3ff8b0e29f46ca827e848fff7bad5d%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D174696457072%26itm%3D333408622989%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DKATO&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A2fe9cf43-9e26-11eb-9ebd-c26309560ba3|parentrq%3Ad7252e491780a7b1092129b4ffee8524|iid%3A1

 

 

[Sheffie]

There’s three or four shades out there. 

ouch on the price

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Sheffie
Removing incorrect pic.

[Jaco3011]

Was the shade changed IRL or is it just the models?

[Sheffie]

My understanding is that Kato revised the shade, perhaps after criticism that it was too much of a pale/sky blue. The newer shade is considerably more intense. 
 

I will defer to others on the question of the real trains. 

[Kamome]

Kato got the colour wrong on both the n gauge and HO gauge 104s. They have since rectified this with their newer releases but the 2 Koki set with the blue 18D containers, was very sun bleached (10-317) Both the 19D and 18D 104 HO sets had the same colour which was too light compared to the real things. @Das Steinkopfis probably way more of an expert on this than me. 

 

I rarely see any looking blue. The 104s in this area of Kyushu are very well used and are covered in rust, rail dirt and dusty light brown stuff from the pantograph and overhead wires rubbing together. You do occasionally see some with new bogies fitted but these ones never look the nice rich blue colour. I’ve seen Seino Transportation have a cargo train using predominant 104s that looks a bit sharper in appearance.

 

 

[Sheffie]

Sorry. The previous pic was wrong. 
 

From front to back: Tomix 102, newer Kato 104, older Kato 104. 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Sheffie

[gavino200]

3 minutes ago, Kamome said:

 

I rarely see any looking blue. The 104s in this area of Kyushu are very well used and are covered in rust, rail dirt and dusty light brown stuff from the pantograph and overhead wires rubbing together. You do occasionally see some with new bogies fitted but these ones never look the nice rich blue colour. I’ve seen Seino Transportation have a cargo train using predominant 104s that looks a bit sharper in appearance.

 

 

I agree. When I was looking at pictures of the Toyota train it was hard to tell if many of them were grey or blue. They were very well weathered. I already have the old Kato (2017?) blue Kokis. They're very light blue. They look pretty ok with my Toyota containers but it's hard to find any on the market. 

 

So are all the various different blue Koki prototypes originally the same color? Straight out of the factory. I guess if I had KoKi models with various degrees of shade, I could consider it a kind of "weathering". The newer Tomix models are much easier to find and much cheaper. 

[gavino200]

9 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

Sorry. The previous pic was wrong. 
 

From front to back: Tomix 102, newer Kato 104, older Kato 104. 

 

 

That's what I figured. The lightest Kato KoKis are the ones that came with the light blue containers with the thick white hockey stick pattern? (as shown in your previous picture).  Those are the ones I have. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by gavino200

[gavino200]

I just noticed that this excellently priced item comes with shipping to the US for a mere $200!!!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tomix-92135-JR-Container-Wagon-KOKI-102-KOKI-103-x-2-4-Car-Set-N-Scale-New/331872922952?hash=item4d452aed48:g:cS0AAOSwbYZXUm8T

[Sheffie]

42 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

That's what I figured. The lightest Kato KoKis are the ones that came with the light blue containers with the thick white hockey stick pattern? (as shown in your previous picture).  Those are the ones I have. 

 

Right. Those are the ones I'm calling "older". Kato part # 10-317 (the three digits after the dash is a give-away that it's old... a lesson I learned the hard way)

The newer pair of 104's, that comes without containers, and is a much deeper blue, is Kato # 10-1421.

[gavino200]

I ordered two four packs of the deeper blue Tomix KoKis from RG-Rokko. I won't sweat about the color difference. The sky blue Kato ones are a souvenir from the Kato Hobby Center so I'll cherish them in spite of their funky shade. As there doesn't seem to be a blue KoKi with tail lights available, I'm going to try to install lights in one of mine. Now all I need is a bookshelf case to go with it. I'd prefer a Kato or Tomix case to a Casco case. The Kato case I have for my grey KoKis fits 12 even though it was just a 10 car set. I'm gonna try to find another one of those.  

[katoftw]

The sun has faded the blues over decades in real life. The different shade of blue actually looks normal.

[Das Steinkopf]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:39 AM, Kamome said:

I rarely see any looking blue. The 104s in this area of Kyushu are very well used and are covered in rust, rail dirt and dusty light brown stuff from the pantograph and overhead wires rubbing together. You do occasionally see some with new bogies fitted but these ones never look the nice rich blue colour. I’ve seen Seino Transportation have a cargo train using predominant 104s that looks a bit sharper in appearance.

 

 

 Funnily enough you mention that, I remember seeing a KoKi 104 at the yard right next to the Kyoto Railway Museum when I visited in 2017, it was so filthy I thought it had been painted grey. With the Seino Kangaroo Liner I suspect that since it is a chartered service that there is a bit more focus on presentation compared to the more typical freight trains, of note KoKi 102-103’s also make up part of that train on a regular basis.

 

The blue used on the Tomix models is a decent shade and akin to a freshly painted wagon but could do with some toning down, the new rendition of blue on the current Kato models is probably the closest but I refuse to buy them due to the lack of steps.

 

 

[gavino200]

The Tomix blue Kokis arrived today. The color difference is quite striking. Perhaps more than I expected. Like new jeans/faded jeans. I kind of like the mix. I'll get a cosco case for these babies with my next HS purchase. 

 

 

 

 

There are some tiny loops where tail lights could be fitted. It would be very difficult, but I think just possible. 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by gavino200

[disturbman]

Just needs some nicer couplers and they are perfect. Very tempting train.

I believe those hoops are for "tail plates", not tail lights: https://www.lnews.jp/2018/04/k042515.html They should be inside the box, somewhere in your detailing parts.

[gavino200]

Ah, thanks, I'll find and add the plates. I'll have to take a look at the Kato grey Koki with the tail lights and try to copy that. 

 

As for the couplers, no way. I loves mah' rapidos!!

[bill937ca]

You can find the Toyota containers making up a whole train. Video by 高橋真.

 

 

Video by ビスタ２世の鉄道模型動画

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by bill937ca

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, bill937ca said:

You can find the Toyota containers making up a whole train. Video by 高橋真.

 

 

Video by ビスタ２世の鉄道模型動画

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Those Kokis are so dirty it's hard to see that they're blue and not grey. I'm almost tempted to weather them. I'm a bit on the fence about weathering though. I like the idea of taking up the challenge of weathering. It's technically an advanced skill. On the other hand I like the idea of model trains providing a "clean world" with no dirt or grime, like a platonic ideal, or something. Must think more on this. 

 

The video also provides a good solution to the tail lights. The prototype uses those giant reflector discs which would be easy to replicate. But the tiny tail lights on the Kato grey KoKis look so cute! Lol

Edited April 21, 2021 by gavino200

[gavino200]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:54 PM, Sheffie said:

My understanding is that Kato revised the shade, perhaps after criticism that it was too much of a pale/sky blue. The newer shade is considerably more intense. 

 

This is kind of surprising. Looking at the videos it's clear that the Kato Sky-blue is the closest to the real thing. 

[EdF]

Would the models fade in a uv phone sterilizer?

[cteno4]

31 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

I'm a bit on the fence about weathering though. I like the idea of taking up the challenge of weathering. It's technically an advanced skill.

Gavin,

 

you can do it no problem, it’s not an uber advanced skill to do general weathering which is what most stuff in japan has, just a bit of dust and dirt and small hints at rust. Doc O’Brien’s powders and a little bit of some dilute India inks can do what you need easily. Get out some old trash cars (pick some up at a train show or ebay) and use them for practice. Scads of vids on YouTube. Yeah really heavy duty weathering you see on really old stuff is more advanced, but getting started on simple stuff is not hard at all. I did loads as a kid in the days of no commercial weathering stuff it was all just powdering chalks, pastels, makeup and ink. Also no YouTube jsut some crappy pictures in a book or model railroader to go by and I got along fine at it and I’m not the artistic type!

 

Give it a whirl, I think you will surprise yourself.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

2 minutes ago, EdF said:

Would the models fade in a uv phone sterilizer?

 

Interesting idea. I didn't know such a thing existed. It would probably take a while, but really I don't know. 

[gavino200]

9 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Gavin,

 

you can do it no problem, it’s not an uber advanced skill to do general weathering which is what most stuff in japan has, just a bit of dust and dirt and small hints at rust. Doc O’Brien’s powders and a little bit of some dilute India inks can do what you need easily. Get out some old trash cars (pick some up at a train show or ebay) and use them for practice. Scads of vids on YouTube. Yeah really heavy duty weathering you see on really old stuff is more advanced, but getting started on simple stuff is not hard at all. I did loads as a kid in the days of no commercial weathering stuff it was all just powdering chalks, pastels, makeup and ink. Also no YouTube jsut some crappy pictures in a book or model railroader to go by and I got along fine at it and I’m not the artistic type!

 

Give it a whirl, I think you will surprise yourself.

 

jeff

 

LOL. This song was written for you, Jeff!

 

 

[cteno4]

3 minutes ago, EdF said:

Would the models fade in a uv phone sterilizer?

that’s a good question. Im guessing it probably would eventually but not sure if those tubes are designed to be on a long long time it may need. but you can get like a 30w uv tube that may do some long term damage, those little phone sterilizers are usually just a few watts at best, meant to just kill some surface pathogens and not bake your phone!
 

Also pigment fading is a complex interaction with the binder and wavelength for each pigment so some may and some may not.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

8 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

LOL. This song was written for you, Jeff!

Ha! At least my pushing don’t give you tombstone eyes, just dirty trains!

 

- the pusher man