Help needed with a key layout decision

[grumbeast]

Hi Everyone.

 

  I have a dilemma, and thought I'd ask you guys to share some of your wisdom.

 

Right now my layout is basically a twice around double track loop so it was quite a long mainline run.  I love both Shinkansen and limited expresses but I know they don't run on the same lines. So... my question is : Should I instead of the twice around, have a upper level shinkansen look AND a seperate lower level limited express line?  I'd then have four loops instead of two but the run would be halved.  It seems that this is normal in Japanese layouts and I confess to feeling a little uncomfortable mixing the two.  I'm almost convincing myself as I write this as it would also eliminate grades (facilitating better running of steam locomotives on occasion)

 

so.. any advice is very much appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[Martijn Meerts]

Personally I would mix them and have the longer run. We can't be prototypical unless we belong to a large club specializing in Japanese N-scale with a club house the size of a 747 hangar anyway ;)

[Nozomi]

My dilema is even worse. I just have the space for one layout but altough I love all kinds of Japanese trains I also like to see my european highspeed trains in motion. On my layout it's quite possible to see a TGV racing a Shinkansen. I had to tell myself: Don't limit the hobby just to one region or one kind of trains.... Of course this could change it I had more space...

[grumbeast]

I share your Dilemma Nozomi,

 

  I've recently discovered Japanese N, but still love my European (and even) my North American stuff.  I confess to being very inspired by the Quinntopia blog, and love the attitude, plus of course it works and looks like a really great model railway.  I think I'm going to mix countries, but keep the high-speed line seperate.  I see where you're coming from Martijn, and normally I would agree, but I do have a bunch of steam that just wouldn't like that grade, at least this way I get to run it.

 

now I just have to negotiate a little time in the basement from the wife so I can set something runnable up :)

 

Graham

[Martijn Meerts]

I have quite a few steam engines (close to 35-40 counting my father's stuff and my own), and of those only 1 or 2 have had problems getting up a grade. Of course, it really depends on the grade, the locomotive, the number and weight of cars, and the number of axles per car, but generally speaking there's not much reason a steam locomotive should have problems getting up 4-5% grades, and more than that isn't recommended for any locomotive, plus any steeper than 5% would look silly ;)

 

You can also design it so that both lower and uppers lines would share the grade, although you'd likely need to go for an open-frame type of table.

[bill937ca]

Hi Everyone.

 

 

Right now my layout is basically a twice around double track loop so it was quite a long mainline run.  I love both Shinkansen and limited expresses but I know they don't run on the same lines. So... my question is : Should I instead of the twice around, have a upper level shinkansen look AND a seperate lower level limited express line?  I'd then have four loops instead of two but the run would be halved.  It seems that this is normal in Japanese layouts and I confess to feeling a little uncomfortable mixing the two.  I'm almost convincing myself as I write this as it would also eliminate grades (facilitating better running of steam locomotives on occasion)

 

 

 

I have a double track loop around my 2.5' x 10' layout.  What I dream about is a 4' x 16' with a four track loop around the table and roughly a figure eight elevated line inside the loop.  The outer double track loop would be for my commuter trains, while the inner loop would be rapid tracks like the Chuo line west of Shinjuku shared by rapid commuter trains, some freight trains, intercity trains and special service trains like homeliners. 

 

Although my track is Tomix I would like to fit in a Kato Modern Overhead Transit Station on one side of the layout and a four track station for the outer loop on the other side.

 

I need more than 2.5' wide for the elevated loop line as C380/243 takes almost all of the width of the existing tables.  I'm not worried about the line looping over itself as there are examples of this in Tokyo, including the Tokyu Toyoko line curving into Shibuya over the Yamanote line.

 

So much for dreaming....  That layout would be right back into the kitchen. 

 

If you are building a layout around the wall in the basement one solution might be a double deck layout like frequently shown in Model Railroader and separate different types of trains on different levels. The levels can be linked by spirals or even elevators, although an elevator for full Shinkansen would be quite a project!

[Lawrence]

Graham - I can only tell you about how I felt about building my last layout - it was based around 1960 and on the Baltimore & Ohio RR (something I knew nothing about) and my plan was to give the layout a feel, I didn't (and still don't) have the time, space, finances or knowledge to make it ant more than that.  And when I get round to building my first Japanese layout, it will be along the same lines, giving it a feel as opposed to sticking to rigid guidelines.  I will have Japanese rolling stock and a few buildings, and hopefully some authentic details.

 

It is your railway ultimately and you should run it the way you want to, do whatever feels right or whatever you fancy, after all it is supposed to be fun 

[grumbeast]

Thanks everyone for the excellent advise.

 

  I think I will have seperate loops, although not so much for accuracy as for running four trains at once! :)  The layoout is about 12'x9' so its still a good run. 

 

Martijn, I have some North American steam that is just pathetic at grades but looks great (a Pere Maquette Berkshire for one!)

 

Lawrence, I totally agree, I'm certainly not going to become a rivet counter!  (TGV, series 700 and a DB TEE running together should dispel that! )

I think I'm going to aim for a fairly generic urban scene.  Cities the world over have a lot in common, certainly my European stock doesn't look out of place running through the Kato City-Type station.

 

Bill, I have a nice lot of space but 16x4 would certainly be something!  I couldn't do the double deck thing, I've played with complicated plans in the past, and its  my adoption of Unitrack and getting more and more simple that has really meant that I've run more trains in the last year than in the last 20!  s

 

Thanks everyone, when I manage to sneak back into the basement I'll try and get a few pics of progress.

 

in Atlantic Canada we are lucky to have lots of basements, even if I did give up most of mine for my wife's animation studio! .. at least I got my 11x12 room

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[bill937ca]

Maybe something like this would help kill time during one of those winter storms that hit Atlantic Canada but bypass Ontario.

 

http://homepage2.nifty.com/peeta/gallery20080913.html

 

http://www.akibaasobit.jp/hobby/index.html

 

http://www.akibaasobit.jp/hobby/index_train.html

 

That's AsoBitCity's in store layout in Akihabara.  Well beyond our means, but we can dream........  

[Mudkip Orange]

I would say do both - add some tracks to your existing twice-around so you can run it as either a twice-around *or* two separate levels.

[westfalen]

I would say do both - add some tracks to your existing twice-around so you can run it as either a twice-around *or* two separate levels.

I'd go along with this. If you are modeling a Japanese urban area you can get away with a spaghetti bowl type layout more because that's what it looks like sometimes. You don't mention if you are using DCC, but if you are not two separate double track loops will give you four trains running at once, also helping to give that busy Japanese feel.

[grumbeast]

I think upon reflection and advice I'll do both.  It'll mean some more unitrack but thats ok :)  it just means I have to save a little more.

 

sooo

its going to be a double track viaduct loop, a double track limited express loop and I'm going to work out a way of connecting them (its pecorlating in my tiny wee mind)  I'm kinda tied for space (some of the shelves are only 12 inches wide) but I think I'll be able to manage that AND have two shared storage yards (one for longer 8 car Shinkansen, one for shorter trains)

 

My series 185-200 has arrived too so its time for some video / pictures soon too as soon as I can get into the basement (I have my wife's and daughters christmas presents to finish making before I'm allowed any time off!!)

 

thanks for the advice, I'll keep everyone informed with progress..

 

Graham

[bill937ca]

In this illustration you will find a rare around the wall Japanese layout.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10075133a/20/1

 

Its a single track line and a double track line with a roundhouse located on an extension into the room.  Under the layout are bookcases of about waist height.  I posted a review of this Kato book elsewhere on JNS.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,2230.msg21254/topicseen.html#msg21254

 

What I am dreaming about for my layout is an outer surface loop with an inner elevated loop.  It all depends on your space and the size of the elevated loop you select.  Four track stations can act as storage locations as well as dispatching points.