Experience disassembling Kato junctions?

[gavino200]

7 hours ago, katoftw said:

Add a little bit of cream colour to your grey and trial paint it. Or darker grey.

 

So far that's just white primer to cover the black Kato paint. I agree, the Kato concrete isn't just straightforward grey. Maybe some creme, or a hint of blue green. I'll need to experiment a bit. I'll also give it a thin clear coat. 

[inobu]

3 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

So far that's just white primer to cover the black Kato paint. I agree, the Kato concrete isn't just straightforward grey. Maybe some creme, or a hint of blue green. I'll need to experiment a bit. I'll also give it a thin clear coat. 

That's where the wash comes in.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, inobu said:

That's where the wash comes in.

I was planning on adding a coat of grey, not just a wash. I’m not trying for a textured look.

Edited February 18, 2021 by gavino200

[inobu]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

I was planning on adding a coat of grey, not just a wash. I’m not trying for a textured look.

Washes gives you options .

 

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, inobu said:

Washes gives you options .

 

 

Tell me more, inobu. Explain it to me like I were five years old. All I know about "washes" is a technique were people weather structures like brickwork by painting over it with a watery dilute paint and washing away the surface. Basically a weathering technique. But you seem to be referring to something different. What am I missing. 

 

Basically what I'm trying to do is just copy the Kato concrete tracks which have a uniform coating of that weird greyish duckegg creamy color. 

 

Looking at the concrete tracks what's your guess at it's component colors. I'm going to try a bit of color matching right now. I have a feeling it'll be a while before I work out something I can apply. 

 

[gavino200]

The color isn't quite right, but I think it's close enough for me to be able to use this section of track. It's Tamiya grey, with a tiny hint of green, and a small amount of brown. The brown is crucial. It didn't look even close until I added that. I have @katoftw to thank for that. (cream suggestion). I still feel there's something missing, not just the proportions. 

 

I'd like to get the color closer, and ideally have a drop formula for it. More work now to save work later. My plan is to keep working on the short segments of regular track, and maybe tackling the junction when I have improved the process and color match. But for now I think it works as a "proof of concept". 

 

I did try inobu's suggestion of the "washing method". I'm sure it would work for others, but for me it emphasizes the wood pattern, so I'd prefer to just get a color match. 

 

 

[inobu]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

 

Tell me more, inobu. Explain it to me like I were five years old. All I know about "washes" is a technique were people weather structures like brickwork by painting over it with a watery dilute paint and washing away the surface. Basically a weathering technique. But you seem to be referring to something different. What am I missing. 

 

Basically what I'm trying to do is just copy the Kato concrete tracks which have a uniform coating of that weird greyish duckegg creamy color. 

 

Looking at the concrete tracks what's your guess at it's component colors. I'm going to try a bit of color matching right now. I have a feeling it'll be a while before I work out something I can apply. 

 

Washes are thin versions of a color and works like tints. You can manage the color saturation with the thickness. If you use a base gray then you can apply the wash to

achieve the color match without adding another layer.

 

Woodland Scenics top coats.  They have all colors. You can see it has the green tint.  You can water it down and seal it with a flat finish sealer.

 

You can count the drops and note the formula for consistency.   They have the pigments as well. The concrete has the green/yellow tint 

 

[gavino200]

3 minutes ago, inobu said:

Washes are thin versions of a color and works like tints. You can manage the color saturation with the thickness. If you use a base gray then you can apply the wash to

achieve the color match without adding another layer.

 

Woodland Scenics top coats.  They have all colors. You can see it has the green tint.  You can water it down and seal it with a flat finish sealer.

 

You can count the drops and note the formula for consistency.   They have the pigments as well.

 

 

It seems like an excellent technique. I figured you might be talking about something like this. I tried a thin brownish layer but it pooled in the wood pattern and didn't look good. But I'm sure I'll use this technique elsewhere. Or possibly if I sand down the sleepers first on future track segments. I'll order a few bottles of this stuff. What colors have you found most useful. 

 

3 minutes ago, inobu said:

 

The concrete has the green/yellow tint 

 

Are you talking about the woodland scenics concrete? Or is that your analysis of the Kato concrete sleeper paint? What's your guess about the hues included? You can see the Tamiya yellow in my picture. I added a tiny spot of yellow too, but I'm not sure it was enough to make a difference. Do you think it's possible that there could be the smallest amount of blue? 

 

[inobu]

14 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

It seems like an excellent technique. I figured you might be talking about something like this. I tried a thin brownish layer but it pooled in the wood pattern and didn't look good. But I'm sure I'll use this technique elsewhere. Or possibly if I sand down the sleepers first on future track segments. I'll order a few bottles of this stuff. What colors have you found most useful. 

 

 

Are you talking about the woodland scenics concrete? Or is that your analysis of the Kato concrete sleeper paint? What's your guess about the hues included? You can see the Tamiya yellow in my picture. I added a tiny spot of yellow too, but I'm not sure it was enough to make a difference. Do you think it's possible that there could be the smallest amount of blue? 

 

Yes, that's what I used on my test yesterday.

 

I have all the colors. I hate not having . I use a lot of the concrete with the grays, slate, black and white. It all depends on the substrate.

 

For some  reason Tamiya's primer is the best. You have to thin out the tamiya paints to the right viscosity to fill the voids in the grain. It like the self leveling paints. 

 

Filling in.

That is what the washes do. The water flows the pigment on the surface and the pigments fill the voids. The water dries out leaving the pigments in the voids.

That is what gives the illusion of texture.

 

Inobu 

 

 

[gavino200]

Can I see your test? How close to the Kato color did you get?  The color matching is sort of fun. It's the most difficult part of the process, I think. 

[inobu]

12 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Can I see your test? How close to the Kato color did you get?  The color matching is sort of fun. It's the most difficult part of the process, I think. 

 

See how the corner puddles up. Look at the pigment that is left behind when the wash dries (Right) . The right viscosity of pigment will flow into

the cracks filling up the voids. When you see the white lines they are the fill pattern of the voids making the surface flat.

 

I know what I say sounds crazy but its has a lot of reasoning behind it.

 

[gavino200]

Yes, I see what you mean. I think this is a beautiful look and nicely accentuates the wood markings. What I'm trying to achieve is somewhat the opposite effect of this. I would definitely use this technique if I were ever trying to make Kato wood sleepers look more authentically wooden. Now that I think about it (for the first time) the Kato gloss black wooden sleepers are kind of strange. 

 

It's funny, but I'm not really trying to go for any real authentic appearance. I just want to make fake Kato concrete track because I like how it looks.

[inobu]

Its not about accenting the wood it fill the grain.

 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gavino200]

It turns out that 91% Iso alcohol and a toothbrush makes very easy work of the black paint on Kato track. It should be easier to prime these. And there'll be less overall paint buildup. I only have a few of these short curves and a few short custom straight pieces to make. Then the dreaded junctions. 

 

[cteno4]

Wow, would not have guessed it would come off that easily! We routinely clean tracks with 70% iso on rags with fingers and I’ve worried we might start to wear off tie paint, but never really seen any come off. 90%+ iso, though, is a pretty good paint stripper for plastics like this and prepainted bits. I’ve striped a number of containers this way.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

It will resist a little rubbing with the 91%. But Immersed for 5 minutes, two minutes brushing with a toothbrush, and a rinse is all it takes. 

[cteno4]

Yeah a good soak lifts a lot of paint with 91. I use the sonic cleaner as well with it as it pops the paints out of little corners and such brushing doesn’t get into well. It’s my usual first go to for some stripping.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

6 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Yeah a good soak lifts a lot of paint with 91. I use the sonic cleaner as well with it as it pops the paints out of little corners and such brushing doesn’t get into well. It’s my usual first go to for some stripping.

 

jeff

 

Ooh! Great idea. I have a sonic cleaner that I've never used. This would be a perfect time to christen it!

[cteno4]

It’s especially good for the final nooks and crannies. I get most of the surface stuff off with a soft toothbrush with light scrubbing then another soak and sonic and repeat if needed. It’s fun to watch the little bits pop out of the nooks and crannies.

 

jeff

[chadbag]

I don't know what the effective difference would be but I have 99.9% iso I got on Amazon (to make a case lube using lanolin + iso for reloading cases)...  99.9% should do a great job if 91% works...

 

Keep posting.  this looks interesting.

[gavino200]

4 minutes ago, chadbag said:

I don't know what the effective difference would be but I have 99.9% iso I got on Amazon (to make a case lube using lanolin + iso for reloading cases)...  99.9% should do a great job if 91% works...

 

Keep posting.  this looks interesting.

 

Wow! 99%. I think I'll order some. I just finished the bottle of 91% anyway. 

 

 

[gavino200]

I did some light sanding on this piece. It didn't take long. I definitely improves the appearance and makes it much easier to apply paint. I didn't get much of that contour effect, though. I was afraid of taking too much plastic. I may go a bit further on the next. I probably should give it another coat of white, but I may try to get away with going straight to the grey. 

 

[gavino200]

I finished the second piece. I'm still not fully happy with the color, but it's getting closer and I'm getting quicker at mixing it up. I found a bit of blue  to add which helps. I'm happy with the method now and will do the rest on a production line method. I may be being more thorough than I need to be. It takes longer to paint the sides of the sleepers than the tops, and it's likely that will never be noticed. But I guess I'll know. 

 

I won't bother to report anything else until I get to the Junctions, unless I find a working formula for the elusive Kato concrete color.

 

[cteno4]

Looks nice gavin, just a tad more white. makes sure to mix a good bottle of it so once you got it you don’t have to recreate it later!

 

the 99.9 will be like 91% pretty quick as it sucks in water from the air pretty fast once exposed for a while and I has,an azeotrope at 91%. For stripping 90% is fine. In the lab we just did 91% as that was usually what it equilibrated to in a squirt bottle anyway and cheaper in bulk not anhydrous.
 

Only recently have I seen anhydrous isopropanol be available much outside chemical supply places, but now all over Amazon. In grad school we could just pop a drop in the nmr and get a fast read on the hydration that had occurred and check purities when we got new batch of stuff like this in. We once found very expensive 100% anhydrous ethanol batch was all 97% as the seals were crappy on the bottles it came in.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

ps I must admit I succumbed to the 99% iso last time I ordered it a month or so back as it was like a dollar more for 6 bottle of 99 than 90 and it had been first time since pre covid I could finally buy isopropanol! 
 

 

[gavino200]

I agree. There's more white in this one than the first. But it still needs some more!