Experience disassembling Kato junctions?

[gavino200]

I had a go at disassembling a Kato #6 junction yesterday. I wasn't sure what to expect. My goal is to take it apart so as to paint the sleepers, concrete and composite color. I got the small spring wire dislodged and it took me a few attempts to get it working again, but I did and it works fine. I think I have the knack of re-springing these things now. To my surprise I'm considering going at it again. 

 

As far as I can see, I only need to remove the back in order to reset the spring after removing the moving rail. The rest of the disassembly seems to just involve sliding out the rails from the plastic ties. 

 

Does anyone know how the frog is removed? Can it be lifted up and out from above? How is it joined electrically to the tracks? Any tricks to this thing that I may not be aware of? 

 

I'd be grateful for any information you might have. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by gavino200

[Sheffie]

If it’s anything like the #4 points, it will be secured by a tiny hex head nut. 

[inobu]

The risk of loss is greater than the yield. Better off painting them assembled.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

7 minutes ago, inobu said:

The risk of loss is greater than the yield. Better off painting them assembled.

I agree with inobu, these are assembled in a way not meant to be disassembled.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

13 hours ago, inobu said:

The risk of loss is greater than the yield. Better off painting them assembled.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's definitely a high risk. The risk of it not working again. The loss would be approximately $20. But the yield would also be quite high for me. Even, if I didn't succeed, just knowing that I tried would probably be a solace worth $20.

 

It would be done on a 'one at a time' basis. If I screw up the first, there won't be a second. 

[gavino200]

13 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I agree with inobu, these are assembled in a way not meant to be disassembled.

 

jeff

 

I feel like I've already disassembled a bunch of things that weren't meant to be disassembled. In the case of this little thing, that would mainly mean that parts are glued or specially bonded in place. 

 

I'm not sure how the parts of the junction are electrically connected in the #6. On the #4 there seem to be little contacts that protrude up from underneath. Apart from that, the rails should slide out like on any other piece of track.

 

[gavino200]

Here's a video showing partial disassembly of a Kato #4 turnout. The purpose here is to file the rail for better function. the rails seem to slide in and out with no trouble.

There are special gold hoops for power transfer.

 

 

[gavino200]

A good explanation of the power routing of the Kato switches. No discussion of assembly or how specifically this is done.

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/TrackandRoadbed/KatoUnitrack/UnitrackSwitchesEtc/

[gavino200]

It's funny how many searches on anything JNS related lead back to this forum. Some good information in this thread.

 

 

[inobu]

Do you see the Rail spikes?

 

Inobu

[gavino200]

Some good information from Digitrax

 

https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB784/ds51k1-stationary-decoder-installation/

 

 

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, inobu said:

Do you see the Rail spikes?

 

Inobu

 

I'm at work. I'm going to look for them when I get home. I think those are the "Gold hoops" that Jim Fiffer was refferring to in his video about the #4

[gavino200]

I tried a google search with the google translate of "painting kato turnouts". 加藤の賑わいを描く 

The image search tells me that the translation is way off. I'm guessing if anyone's done this it would be someone in Japan. 

 

@railsquid I'm wondering if you could suggest a suitable Japanese search term?

Edited February 15, 2021 by gavino200

[inobu]

Just now, gavino200 said:

 

I'm at work. I'm going to look for them when I get home. I think those are the "Gold hoops" that Jim Fiffer was refferring to in his video about the #4

The rail spikes flake off they are so small. You break them going out and going back in.

 

Easier and faster to paint them. I would investing in finding a way to bleach the ties.

 

I just tried marking it with a white pen. I colored the tie with an orange marker and went over it with a white marker. The orange

bled through creating a tint.

 

A bleaching process will be a lot faster with minimal risk.

 

 

Second look......The ties are painted. You need a white wash that will emulsify the brown paint

of the ties into the color you want.

 

Always wondered about this.

 

 

[gavino200]

3 hours ago, inobu said:

The rail spikes flake off they are so small. You break them going out and going back in.

 

Ah, yes I see them (at home now). It looks like they're just part of the molded plastic base. I can see how they'd break easily. I wonder if I could get out and back in once. I have a tiny micro pliers that grips very securely. Sometimes, knowing that something like this is brittle is all it takes. 

 

3 hours ago, inobu said:

 

Easier and faster to paint them. I would investing in finding a way to bleach the ties.

 

I could probably do it with the rails intact, using loupes and a super fine brush. I think it would be a lot quicker with the rails off though. Now that I look at the black sleeper paint closely, it's not all that precisely painted. It overlaps by a decent bit. Maybe .2 mm?

 

Bleaching is an interesting idea. It would be hard to get a color match with the regular Kato concrete ties though. Although those would only be the sleepers at the end of the junction, which would be easier to paint anyway.

 

 

3 hours ago, inobu said:

 

I just tried marking it with a white pen. I colored the tie with an orange marker and went over it with a white marker. The orange

bled through creating a tint.

 

What's the idea of the orange marker? For the composite brownish long sleepers?

Do you have a picture that's less close up? To see the effect?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, inobu said:

 

A bleaching process will be a lot faster with minimal risk.

 

 

Second look......The ties are painted. You need a white wash that will emulsify the brown paint

of the ties into the color you want.

 

Second look? The picture below is the stock Kato concrete/composite single crossover, right? That's the color scheme I'm going for. Although prototype composite sleepers seem to be a more reddish maroon-like color. I'd probably go for the more reddish, though it would also be nice to match the Kato scheme. 

 

What kink of picture is that btw? A shot from a microscope? What scope are you using? I just use 3x loupes but I'd love to get better magnification someday. 

 

[gavino200]

A bit of analysis 

 

The double end is fairly simple.

Spikes - moulded plastic - fragile.

Regular little clampy bits - usually not so fragile - I have to see what  color these would be in life. Rusty metal probably

 

The weird black rerailer bar thing This looks to be cast plastic, painted black rather than a separate part. 

Not sure why this is painted black. I'll have to look at prototypes, rusty metal maybe?

 

 

The center

There's probably no need to remove the frog. There's actually good access to it on all sides.

Painting to the edge shouldn't present a major problem.

However, I'll take a look at removing it. 

 

 

Single end

 

This is the main challange. 

Removing the moving rail is probably the single thing that would most facilitate painting. 

Removing it isn't hard. Re-springing it is difficult. But I think I can manage to do that. 

Spikes and rail grabby things on single end, same as on double. 

 

[inobu]

WF5X microscope.

 

Sakura Gelly Roll white pen to give the sleepers a white base (that is what I used here) 

 

Color the ties white and the use a gray wash to flow the color into the grains.

 

The key is the wash to blend the color.

 

Inobu

 

[gavino200]

13 minutes ago, inobu said:

WF5X microscope.

 

Sakura Gelly Roll white pen to give the sleepers a white base (that is what I used here) 

 

Color the ties white and the use a gray wash to flow the color into the grains.

 

The key is the wash to blend the color.

 

 

 

Inobu

 

 

It looks pretty good, inobu. 

 

I was thinking of using a fine sanding stick to flatten out the wood pattern a bit. Though I won't try that on my first attempt. I want to limit how much time I put into it before knowing if I can get it to reliably work again. If I have any success, I'll probably try that on the second. 

[inobu]

2 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

It looks pretty good, inobu. 

 

I was thinking of using a fine sanding stick to flatten out the wood pattern a bit. Though I won't try that on my first attempt. I want to limit how much time I put into it before knowing if I can get it to reliably work again. If I have any success, I'll probably try that on the second. 

I would invest in the wash/paint formula first. Paint it first. If you cant achieve the look you want then disassemble. Easiest thing first....

 

I think the white base then dry brush will do it.  Look at the third from the right. See how the wash puddles in the corner.

 

Look at the 4 from the right. I used Tamiya think cement. It melted the plastic and smoothed it out a bit.

 

If it were me I would put a white base down and try to color match Kato's half crossover. 

 

[Sheffie]

Well, karma has struck me for acting like I know what I’m talking about. 

 

It turns out that one of my #6 points has its power routing backwards. So I’m going to have to take the back off. 

[gavino200]

I decided to try out the painting technique on some regular track before attempting the junction. There are a few short straight pieces and curves that I also need for my station. It makes sense for me to do all of these to build up some painting experience and develop a method before trying on the points. 

 

Below is a straight piece with the sleepers painted with two coats of white primer. It's quite doable, though time consuming and delicate. I quite enjoyed it actually. 

 

A couple of observations. 

1. It would be better to sand the wood markings off for two reasons. One, it would look better and two it would be easier to paint. The markings make lines of black show through. 

 

2. Also it would be nice to sand in the curvature on the Kato concrete sleepers as they look very good. I don't know if I can do that, but I think I'll try on the next. 

 

3. It would actually be good to try to strip the black paint off before painting. There's be a more even white coat and perhaps only one primer coat would be needed. 

 

4. I probably won't try to do all of these in one go. Rather, I'll probably do them to as mini-projects to give myself a break between other projects. It's kind of a soothing activity. 

 

I think it'll be a bit hard to color match the Kato concrete sleepers. It's a weird color. It's not quite gray. There's almost a greenish, blueish hint to it. It reminds me of Airfix "duck-egg blue" paint - the color of the undersurface of a Spitfire. The color is locked into my memory from childhood. 

 

[chadbag]

Just eyeballing it, it appears the wooden sleepers are further apart than the actual from-Kato concrete ones.  
 

to remove the wood grain look, how would apply a small Amount of plastic paste of some sort and then sanding that down be?  
 

just thinking out loud. 

[gavino200]

9 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Just eyeballing it, it appears the wooden sleepers are further apart than the actual from-Kato concrete ones.  

 

Yes, that's a very noticible difference. Nothing that can be done about that, unfortunately.

 

 

9 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

to remove the wood grain look, how would apply a small Amount of plastic paste of some sort and then sanding that down be?  

 

Agree, A combination of both would probably be best. However, probably more sanding. That way I could try for some of the center contour effect of the Kato concrete ties.

[cteno4]

Tad of sanding to take off the rising bits (if any) and then paste to fill depressions and sand.

 

jeff

[katoftw]

Add a little bit of cream colour to your grey and trial paint it. Or darker grey.

Edited February 18, 2021 by katoftw