TOMIX Coupler Questions: JRF EF210 & EF510

[Ewan.in.gz]

Hi Everyone!

 

It's been a while since I've posted anything, 2020 was not a very good year.... What with Covid, moving house & looking for a new job, I didn't do much with my trains....

 

Anyway, for my questions... Last Chinese New Year, in Tokyo, I bought 2 of the TOMIX 3 car JRF container train packs: number 92417 EF510-0 with 2 KoKi 50000s & number 92491 EF210-100 with 2 KoKi 107s. These are my first TOMIX locos that will be running as normal trains, so I am planning to replace the Arnold Rapido couplers with knuckle couplers.

 

First question is: Will TOMIX TN knuckle couplers couple with Kato knuckle couplers (as in the knuckles included with Kato locos) and also the Kato Coupler N (11-702 and 11-707)? I usually replace the Rapidos on freight stock with Kato Coupler Ns.

 

The models themselves did not come with any option parts list, but according to the 2020 TOMIX Catalogue, in the listings for the 3-car EF510 Cassiopeia base set, the EF510 takes replacement JC52 knuckle couplers. I have taken both of the locos apart to check the couplers, and both them have the same coupler housing sub-assemblies.I also have a TOMIX ED61 in the Track Cleaning Car Set, it has the same coupler mounting assembly, but its' option parts list has a different TN coupler replacement listed.

 

So the second question is: Is JC52 the correct part number for TN couplers for EF210 and EF510?

 

And lastly, a note on coupler replacements for other TOMIX models.... A couple of years ago I was asking here on the forum if anyone had tried replacing the TOMIX Tobu Spacia Rapidos with Kato Couplers. I can report that I finally managed to get the Rapidos out of the coupler pockets and replaced them with Kato's grey jumper fitted Shibata type, part 11-704. The Tobu Spacia really does look much better with these than with the Rapidos it came with!

 

Happy Chinese New Year everyone!

 

Ewan

 

  

[roadstar_na6]

in a nutshell: Tomix knuckles won‘t work with Kato knuckles.

You can modify the Arnold Coupler assembly of the Tomix model to house a Kato coupler tho, see here.

[katoftw]

The couplers for the Tomix koki cars can be Kato also. The pocket fitment is the same.

[Ewan.in.gz]

41 minutes ago, roadstar_na6 said:

in a nutshell: Tomix knuckles won‘t work with Kato knuckles.

You can modify the Arnold Coupler assembly of the Tomix model to house a Kato coupler tho, see here.

 

Oh dear.... Looks like it's gonna be a bit more surgery than I imagined.... But I wonder, can the TOMIX TN couplers mate with Kato Coupler N?

 

24 minutes ago, katoftw said:

The couplers for the Tomix koki cars can be Kato also. The pocket fitment is the same.

 

That is exactly what I was going to do, the same as I did with my Tobu Spacia, just the using the Kato Coupler N instead of Shibata type couplers. I've noticed that most TOMIX bogie mounted Rapidos have the same pockets as Kato. I just have to either find if I've still got an old pack, or buy new ones!

 

Unfortunately, with Covid, it's difficult to travel, out of Mainland China, even to Hong Kong or Macau.... Guess I'll have to shop online!

[roadstar_na6]

33 minutes ago, Ewan.in.gz said:

Oh dear.... Looks like it's gonna be a bit more surgery than I imagined.... But I wonder, can the TOMIX TN couplers mate with Kato Coupler N?

I just skipped the last step with the backing plate and the rod and it works just fine. The narrow-cutting part is crucial, because other wise the coupler won‘t open and coupling needs a little force. I‘ve learnt that the hard way 😄

I don‘t think TNs couple to the newer Kato couplers, but I can give it a go later.

Edited February 13, 2021 by roadstar_na6

[Ewan.in.gz]

1 minute ago, roadstar_na6 said:

I just skipped the last step with the backing plate and the rod and it works just fine. The narrow-cutting part is crucial, because other wise the coupler won‘t open and coupling needs a little force. I‘ve learnt that the hard way 😄

I don‘t think TNs couple to the newer Kato couplers, but I can give it a go later.

 

Heheh, I have noticed that TOMIX locos have a HUUUUGE coupler opening.... I wish I had thought to buy some knuckles when I was in the shop buying these trains! If the TNs could couple to Kato 11-702 or 11-707, that would be fine.... Otherwise I'm not really looking forward to cutting up tiny bits of black plastic and promptly losing pieces in the carpet or sofa.... 😝

 

Maybe I'll just stick with Kato locos in the future if TOMIX TNs won't couple to Kato Couplers! 🤣🤪

[roadstar_na6]

If you do the modification with those Kato couplers and make them able to still open a little you can couple them just fine to 11-702. I messed one side up a little and automatic coupling doesn‘t work 100%.

[Das Steinkopf]

5 hours ago, Ewan.in.gz said:

 

Heheh, I have noticed that TOMIX locos have a HUUUUGE coupler opening.... I wish I had thought to buy some knuckles when I was in the shop buying these trains! If the TNs could couple to Kato 11-702 or 11-707, that would be fine.... Otherwise I'm not really looking forward to cutting up tiny bits of black plastic and promptly losing pieces in the carpet or sofa.... 😝

 

Maybe I'll just stick with Kato locos in the future if TOMIX TNs won't couple to Kato Couplers! 🤣🤪

 

 I have pretty much resigned myself to running with two different coupling and assigning Kato stock to Kato locomotives and Tomix stock to Tomix locomotives, this is not a big issue as I have a quite extensive fleet of rolling stock as well as locomotives, if you had a small fleet then there certainly would be a lot of issues with the non compatibility, I use the Kato close couplers on Kato stock and TN's on my Tomix stock, when it comes to detail I think the TN's look more realistic, for easy operation and swapping out stock the Kato ones are easier to use. I had originally wanted to use microscale couplers to facilitate the shunting of freight stock on a Tokaido Honsen based layout I was designing, given the cost and not to mention the work involved I scrapped that idea and will be building a yard based on the E&S style where the trains pull into a loop siding and are loaded and unloaded quickly and then depart.

 

 My freight fleet is predominantly Tomix as they have the best range of contemporary freight stock, out of my fleet of 23 locomotives only 5 of them are Kato, EH200, EF200, EF66-100, EF65-2000 and a DE10-1500, two of the trains hauled will be the EH200 with 15 out of my 16 Kato TaKi 1000's and the EF65-2000 hauling 9 TaKi 43000's, for container freight I have 12 KoKi 50000's, 8 KoKi 107's, 8 KoKi 106's and a KoKi 200. My Tomix fleet is far more extensive and I have the following, an EF210-300, 3 EF210-100, EF66-27, 4 EF65-2000, 3 EF64-1000, DF200-200, 2 DD51-800 and 3 DE10-1000's, 19 TaKi 1000's, 14 KoKi 50000's, 5 KoKi 110's, 17 KoKi 107's, 8 KoKi 106's, 5 KoKi 104's, 2 KoKi 102-103 4 car consists, 1 KoKi 100-101 4 car consist, 1 KoKi 200 and I have 2 KoKi 105 2 car sets on order to complete my range of KoKi 100 variants, I'm fairly content with the fleet I have but I would like to get some more KoKi 104's in the future and perhaps some HoKi 2000's if they ever become available.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Das Steinkopf

[roadstar_na6]

6 hours ago, roadstar_na6 said:

I don‘t think TNs couple to the newer Kato couplers, but I can give it a go later.

They don‘t:

[Ewan.in.gz]

3 hours ago, Das Steinkopf said:

 

 I have pretty much resigned myself to running with two different coupling and assigning Kato stock to Kato locomotives and Tomix stock to Tomix locomotives, this is not a big issue as I have a quite extensive fleet of rolling stock as well as locomotives, if you had a small fleet then there certainly would be a lot of issues with the non compatibility, I use the Kato close couplers on Kato stock and TN's on my Tomix stock, when it comes to detail I think the TN's look more realistic, for easy operation and swapping out stock the Kato ones are easier to use. I had originally wanted to use microscale couplers to facilitate the shunting of freight stock on a Tokaido Honsen based layout I was designing, given the cost and not to mention the work involved I scrapped that idea and will be building a yard based on the E&S style where the trains pull into a loop siding and are loaded and unloaded quickly and then depart.

 

 My freight fleet is predominantly Tomix as they have the best range of contemporary freight stock, out of my fleet of 23 locomotives only 5 of them are Kato, EH200, EF200, EF66-100, EF65-2000 and a DE10-1500, two of the trains hauled will be the EH200 with 15 out of my 16 Kato TaKi 1000's and the EF65-2000 hauling 9 TaKi 43000's, for container freight I have 12 KoKi 50000's, 8 KoKi 107's, 8 KoKi 106's and a KoKi 200. My Tomix fleet is far more extensive and I have the following, an EF210-300, 3 EF210-100, EF66-27, 4 EF65-2000, 3 EF64-1000, DF200-200, 2 DD51-800 and 3 DE10-1000's, 19 TaKi 1000's, 14 KoKi 50000's, 5 KoKi 110's, 17 KoKi 107's, 8 KoKi 106's, 5 KoKi 104's, 2 KoKi 102-103 4 car consists, 1 KoKi 100-101 4 car consist, 1 KoKi 200 and I have 2 KoKi 105 2 car sets on order to complete my range of KoKi 100 variants, I'm fairly content with the fleet I have but I would like to get some more KoKi 104's in the future and perhaps some HoKi 2000's if they ever become available.

 

Hahahah, of course compatibility is gonna be an issue with JRF stuff! 🤪

 

Currently, the majority of my fleet is made up of passenger equipment: JR East Shinkansen (and one 100 Series Grand Hikari set), a lot of Tokyo area local, rapid and limited express EMU and the Hokutosei and Cassiopeia sleeper trains. Mostly from Kato, except for my TOMIX 200 Series H unit Super Yamabiko Shinkansen & Tobu Spacia!

 

Before buying these TOMIX container car sets, the only JRF stock I had was a Kato M250 Super Rail Cargo EMU, one Kato DE10-1000, one Kato EF210-100 & a handful of KoKi 5500s & KoKi 106s.... Aside from the M250, I had replaced the locos' Rapido couplers with Kato knuckles, since it's what they came with, and Kato Coupler Ns on the Kato KoKis because they are simple to fit, look better than Rapidos, and work fine for non-shunting operations.... To be honest, the M250 is longer than any consist I can make with my locos and KoKis at the moment! 🤣

 

You can probably tell from the majority of my fleet that I concentrate more on running passenger trains, rather than shunting freight!

 

For the time being, I think I'll just let the freight coupler conundrum stew until I can get some Kato & TOMIX replacement knuckle couplers for my TOMIX locos and do some experimentation....

 

For EMUs, if it's a TOMIX or MicroAce model that can take body mount TNs, I'd swap the Rapidos out for TOMIX TNs, and if it's bogie mounted only, I'd swap the Rapidos out for Kato jumper-fitted Shibatas, as I've already done with my Tobu Spacia Set.

[Ewan.in.gz]

4 hours ago, roadstar_na6 said:

They don‘t:

 

Hahaha, surprise, surprise.... Oh well, as I said, I'll just let it stew until I can get my hands on some TOMIX knuckles to see which ones I prefer in the flesh.... In my ind they don't look so great in the catalogue, but I might change my mind after testing them out on my own locos. It's kind of up in the air at the moment anyway, since I have no idea when I'll actually get a chance to do some train shopping next.

[katoftw]

Could just sell the Tomix and buy Kato versions.

[Ewan.in.gz]

Hehe, last night I thought of having wagons for my TOMIX locos with TOMIX TNs on one end and Kato couplers on the other end..... One thing I noticed with the TOMIX locos is that the ones in the basic sets are less detailed than the ones that are available separately, and less detailed than my Kato locos too! Though the only Kato locos I have are 2 EF510-500s, one each in Hokutosei and Cassiopeia versions, along with 1each of Kato EF210, EF81 Hokutosei and DE10-1000.

 

I haven't really got a big enough freight fleet for it to really be a serious issue yet!

[Das Steinkopf]

58 minutes ago, Ewan.in.gz said:

One thing I noticed with the TOMIX locos is that the ones in the basic sets are less detailed than the ones that are available separately, and less detailed than my Kato locos too!

 

 I got rid of the my Tomix 92491 back in 2017 and purchased a replacement 9142 EF210-100 when I went to Japan that year, whilst the starter sets are a good cheap entry level model they are nowhere near as detailed as the individual locomotives, I think the reasoning with this is that they are more than likely made for use by young children where they need to be less prone to being damaged, pretty much in the same way that Hornby markets their sets.

[Ewan.in.gz]

14 minutes ago, Das Steinkopf said:

 

 I got rid of the my Tomix 92491 back in 2017 and purchased a replacement 9142 EF210-100 when I went to Japan that year, whilst the starter sets are a good cheap entry level model they are nowhere near as detailed as the individual locomotives, I think the reasoning with this is that they are more than likely made for use by young children where they need to be less prone to being damaged, pretty much in the same way that Hornby markets their sets.

 

But the weird thing is that the KoKis in those sets seem to be the same as the regular individual models, as are the containers! Although one of the KoKi 50000's keeps losing it's end handrail whenever I take it out of the box!

 

I don't know what I'll eventually end up doing with those 2 locos. But being "el-cheapo" ones, they might be suitable for a kit-bashing experiment with Kato knuckles.....

Edited February 14, 2021 by Ewan.in.gz