Tenshodo T-Evolution - worth buying?

[Jaco3011]

Tenshodo made KuMoYa 145 and KuMoRu 145 + KuRu 144 and I'm thinking of buying either, but I'm not sure how will it work on 12mm track. There are no ready-made TT/H0m wheelsets large enough (10,5mm in diameter), and I would have to somehow build customised driving mechanism.

Maybe I should work on some tracks to ride it on first...

[Kiha66]

You could always get it and enjoy it on HO track, and could convert it later.  As the mechanism clips on it may be possible to convert the tenshoto powerset to TT, but I'm not sure. 

[al camino]

The BEMO 1266 1## electric cars of RhB ABe 4/4 II (Bernina) have a wheel diameter of 10.57mm which is close to 10.5 and a wheel distance of 25.25mm instead of 26.

It depends on you if you could accept the deviation.

The KUMORU145 will be a little challanging on how to place the motor to have one bogie motorized.

Edited January 10, 2021 by al camino

[Welshbloke]

Very much worth buying! The only snag is patchy availability of the Tomix couplers you need to run them in multiple.

 

The trailer axles would be fairly easy to adapt, as they use the kit bogie sideframes with brass pinpoint bearings and the addition of a few screws to hold them together, you'd just need some 12mm gauge 10mm diameter wheelsets. Does anyone offer something like the SPUD for 12mm gauge?

[Jaco3011]

7 hours ago, Welshbloke said:

SPUD

SPUD? I don't mind
 

13 hours ago, al camino said:

The BEMO 1266 1## electric cars of RhB ABe 4/4 II (Bernina) have a wheel diameter of 10.57mm which is close to 10.5 and a wheel distance of 25.25mm instead of 26.

It depends on you if you could accept the deviation.

The KUMORU145 will be a little challanging on how to place the motor to have one bogie motorized.

I checked the price... that's an expensive part. Still thinking how should I built the drivetrain.

[al camino]

10 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

I checked the price... that's an expensive part. Still thinking how should I built the drivetrain.

 

I know they're expensive. Maybe you can find an optical worn one on ebay or such. Housing and all is not important but the frame and the 2 trucks. Even the outer truck frames could be broken. All these characterisitcs could make a BEMO more than affordable. As you told you have to prepare some road bed before you have a lot of time for searching.

 

Drivetrain in KUMOYA is no problem as its a full box design.

For KUMORU I dont yet have an idea exept to place some larger load covering the motor.

 

And - BTW - yes the T-Evolution are worth buying.

The alternative of my KUMORU145&KURU144 had been brass before. Far beyond my budget (even that I spend quite a lot into model railroading).

Edited January 11, 2021 by al camino
drivetrain amended

[Welshbloke]

Tenshodo marketed earlier versions of the power bogie for the T-Evolution range as the SPUD, or Self Propelled Universal Drive.

[al camino]

20 minutes ago, Welshbloke said:

Tenshodo marketed earlier versions of the power bogie for the T-Evolution range as the SPUD, or Self Propelled Universal Drive.

I know them but never noticed a TT or H0m version. Maybe I missed this because I had no need.

What has US market to offer? NWSL has alot of drivetrain stuff. Did they have some SPUD (H0n3 or such)?

I remember to have seen this in an old Walthers catalog. But cannot remember the brand. Maybe it had been Tenshodo 😉 

[Welshbloke]

I think HO is as narrow as they get. The casing couldn't be much narrower and still have space for the motor.

 

Did wonder if there were any N or HOe mechanisms which could be regauged? The Tenshodo units aren't heavy and should roll freely.

[Jaco3011]

20 hours ago, al camino said:

I know them but never noticed a TT or H0m version. Maybe I missed this because I had no need.

What has US market to offer? NWSL has alot of drivetrain stuff. Did they have some SPUD (H0n3 or such)?

I remember to have seen this in an old Walthers catalog. But cannot remember the brand. Maybe it had been Tenshodo 😉 

NWSL doesn't have TT/H0m stuff.

I'm also thinking about lighting, how to connect it etc. I want to make it DCC-ready.

[marknewton]

21 hours ago, al camino said:

I know them but never noticed a TT or H0m version. Maybe I missed this because I had no need.

What has US market to offer? NWSL has alot of drivetrain stuff. Did they have some SPUD (H0n3 or such)?

Tenshodo SPUDs have only ever been made for 16.5mm gauge. NWSL's equivalent to the SPUD was the PDT drive. They were also only available in 16.5mm gauge. 
 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Jaco3011]

I can use this motor: http://www.pojezdy.eu/eshop/mashima-motors/15-mashima-mhk-1015d.html

along with 14T gears, it should fit into the bogie.

[al camino]

For T-Evolution design details have a look to the thread Tenshodo T-Evolution Tokyu 7200 series EMU where I posted alot of pictures of the KUMOYA disassembled.

Edited February 1, 2021 by al camino
link corrected

[EF57]

There are also excellent, if unnecessarily long, Youtube videos by Shigemon showing how to put the metal wheels and power unit in.  Them you can understand without knowing Japanese, the Tenshodo instructions not really.

Edited February 1, 2021 by EF57

[Jaco3011]

5 hours ago, EF57 said:

There are also excellent, if unnecessarily long, Youtube videos by Shigemon showing how to put the metal wheels and power unit in.  Them you can understand without knowing Japanese, the Tenshodo instructions not really.

Already seen 'em.

[EF57]

The body looks great and super-priced for Japanese HO.  But I must say I am a bit disappointed with the conversion to a running model.  You have to really hassle with tiny fiddly parts for the trailer trucks and you end up with a flimsy, unstable multi-part truck that won’t support any load and is tricky to put on the rails.  Shigemon seems like a nice guy and is very, almost painfully, careful and explicit, but he doesn’t show how to connect the pickups on the trailing to the power truck (I know it’s not hard to figure out, but when he goes into such excruciating detail about everything else ...) or that you have to use the washers to screw the trucks on at the end (again, not rocket science, but why did he simply skip these steps?).  At the end you have a noisy, flimsy construction.  I expected better from Tenshodo, even in a budget product.  It’s really a nice static model, though.

[Jaco3011]

Do I need to glue the weight? Are there "stickers" (shiiru) decals or stickers? @al camino taskete!

[al camino]

I did not yet start to convert these to rolling and motorized trucks.

So I can't answer the glueing wheight question.

 

Road number is dry transfer.

Train number etc. are printed high gloss foils foils with self sticking adhesive on the rear covered by yellow protective paper to peel of.

You have to cut and place them at the little information windows above front windows.

I personally dont like these sticker as the stick on the outside of the small window insert.

But looks better when placed behind.

So I would not need the self sticking festure.

especially as these self sticking adhesive tends to age = becomes greasy.

Edited February 9, 2021 by al camino
amended some weight

[Welshbloke]

I have a feeling the weights on mine came with double sided tape attached, but if they didn't then that's probably what I used anyway. The KuMoYa doesn't have the load bed to keep them pinned down.

[Jaco3011]

I messed up the wheelsets. I have little idea which wheelests should I buy.

Can anyone remind me why nearly all japanese models are made on wrong gauge, and those with proper gauge are extremely expensive?

[Kamome]

I wonder whether the Japanese model railway market used to import track, or used track gauge standards employed by other countries first. Personally I quite like the 1:150 or 1:80 scale trains. Others want to represent things perfectly. My Uncle models British O gauge around his garden and refuses to use track that he hasn’t made himself to exact rail code, sleeper spacing etc.. He was a civil engineer so I guess precision was engrained into his way of thinking. 

 

I guess it’s the same in the UK market where 00 gauge trains are the wrong scale (1:76) for the track used. If you want true scale trains, they are again pretty expensive. 

 

European and American modellers are lucky that both scale and gauge are correct for the mass produced market. Japan and the UK it’s a niche causing small production runs for more discerning customers. Also the majority is produced in brass so prebuilt versions require a lot of man hours. 

 

[roadstar_na6]

I'm happy that most Japanese stuff is able to be used on 9/16.5mm tracks, both of it had become the worldwide standard by the time Japan got involved in the whole thing so I guess they just adopted to it.

[Jaco3011]

16 hours ago, Kamome said:

British O gauge

Let me take a guess - 33mm gauge?

 

16 hours ago, Kamome said:

European and American modellers are lucky that both scale and gauge are correct for the mass produced market.

Aside from American O gauge.
 

16 hours ago, roadstar_na6 said:

I'm happy that most Japanese stuff is able to be used on 9/16.5mm tracks.

I'm unhappy for reason there's no easy way to convert it to narrow gauge.

[Kiha66]

7 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

I'm unhappy for reason there's no easy way to convert it to narrow gauge.

 

In Tenshoto's defense, these are sold as affordable display models and the add on parts to make them run are for the small contingent of Ho Japanese modelers.  I suspect that if you wanted a set specifically designed for functioning scale narrow gauge the cost would rise considerably beyond the "affordable model" range.  

[al camino]

far beyond affordable and that's for sure.