A non-Japanese layout

[CaptOblivious]

Tomix still makes non-super-elevated curved viaduct, and at quite wide radius curves, too. You could solder the track together if you're worried about the electrical quality of the joiners over time.

[Martijn Meerts]

3. Also since we were building the spiral per loop, the holes for the metal bars with screw thread (I'm sure there's a name for the stuff, but I haven't a clue what it could be ;)) didn't line up.

 

They call it "quarter-inch threaded rod" at the store where I buy mine.  I imagine yours is metric. 

 

Ah right, threaded rod.. I've heard of that before. I guess the metric version would be M6 threaded rod ;)

 

5. Using either flex track or sectional track without roadbed is something I won't do again. It'd have been MUCH easier to use FineTrack or Unitrack for example. Using those track systems means you can first build the entire spiral, then put down the track, and just glue the track in place with a drop of hot glue here and there. The Minitrix sectional track isn't sturdy enough. Another option is to skip the wooden structure altogether, and actually use elevated track segments.

 

Interesting. I'd been thinking of using Unitrack when I get around to building my helix, but the one concern I'd have there is dust getting into the track joiners over the long term.  Taking the track apart to fix that would be very hard inside a helix deep inside a layout.

 

I have seen a description of a helix built with viaduct Unitrack, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of using superelevated viaduct, and you can't get the old kind anymore.  What kind of elevated track segments did you have in mind?

 

 

I have no experience with Unitrack other than the simple single track oval I got with my Santa Fe F3 set. So, when I make another spiral (or helix ;)) I might try some Finetrack. On the other hand, the next spiral I'll be building will likely need to be big enough to allow 16 car trains to go through it, so using only elevated track segments might be too weak, in which case you could either glue the track segments onto a wooden frame, or use single track segments.

 

As for dust in the track segments, you can solder them together, or you can solder feeder wires to every single track piece.

 

In the end though, there's just no real easy and quick way of building a spiral. But seeing a train go through it once you're done is worth the effort for some odd reason (considering the spiral will be hidden and no one's ever going to see it ;))

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, another non-visual update.

 

A lot of time has been spent wiring up blocks and turnouts. I've also set up all the basics in the computer program we're using, and we've started running some tests with automated control.

 

Now, the previous layout was difficult to get to run correct because of the good amount of tracks and turnouts, but the new one is something else. Since all tracks allow for driving in both directions, there are a LOT of things to take into account. We've already had plenty deadlock situations where basically no train would be able to continue because some block or the other is occupied ;)

 

We also need to re-do all the speed table measurements for all trains, which will take a long time, and of course locomotives, trains and train types need to be set up. There's also routes that need to be set up to make sure that a freight train will use the special tracks in the main station, and not take up 1 of the tracks alongside the platforms. Then there's the stub tracks which will somehow need to be only made available to push/pull trains.

 

Because of the both direction travel, in general less trains can be driving at the same time compared to the previous layout, but it does look much better, with trains entering and exiting the station in both directions.

 

Unfortunately, during testing, 1 of the more expensive steam locomotives decided it wanted to retire. Looks like the decoder got fried, but considering it's a custom build decoder to fit into that locomotive, I can't fix it by installing a new one. Interestingly though, we have 2 other locomotives with pretty much the same problem. It's like the decoder locks itself into certain settings, which are always the same settings. To me that sounds like an error code, but I haven't been able to find any information on it at all.

 

 

I would post pictures of the wiring, but it's still a mess right now, with most wires still (semi-)temporarily installed. Once the trains start behaving a bit, I'll post a video or something ;)

[Tecchan]

Pardon my question if it might seem stupid or already answered before, but I don't understand what the spiral is for.

I've seen them in some layouts to allow train to go up and appear at the top of a mountain but yours seems to go down and I don't understand why.

Is it a "storage facility" underneath that allows you to store your trains without having to put them in a box when you are not using them?

 

Thank you in advance and I'm looking forward to see new pics!

[David]

From the plans and pictures he's been posting, there is a rather large staging yard and reversing loop hidden under the center of the layout, reached via the helix. It's a nice way of avoiding the yard taking over 60% of the layout.

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, there'll be a hidden yard of probably around 10 tracks to store trains, and to make it seem like the layout is bigger than it really is. Trains can enter a tunnel, and from there either continue to 1 of the 2 train stations, or it can branch off and go to the hidden yard. Once there, it'll stop and a different train will start running. That way there's a lot more variety. And since it's computer controlled, it's left to chance which train will go to the hidden yard, and when they'll go there.

 

The reason for the spiral/helix instead of going down just 1 level, is that we wanted enough clearance between the 0 level of the layout, and the hidden yard. As it is now, there's around 23-24 cm clearance, which means we can easily reach the tracks on the hidden yard when needed.

 

The hidden yard isn't built yet, not sure when we'll add it either. Right now all time is spent on making sure things run like they should (various turnouts are problematic), and programming the computer control program to make sure trains don't run where they shouldn't be running ;)

[Tecchan]

Ok, this is what I thought. That's great, I'm looking forward to see more!

Thank you for ansewering! :-)

[Martijn Meerts]

Not much news, it's WAY too hot in the train room to do anything with the layout =)

 

We've started buying the required turnouts for the hidden yard and some other electronics, and we've started working on a small harbor area for a steam paddle boat.

 

Other than that, we're clearing out the basement to make room for some work stations. It's nice and cool there during summer, and quite warm during winter, so the soldering station, airbrush equipment and general train repair stuff etc. will be moved to the basement. The only downside is that there's very little ventilation, still need to figure out how to solve that.

 

 

On the upside, I've been thinking a bit more about Tokyo Station, and I'll likely start buying some Peco track soon to run a few tests and see if it's at all possible.

 

I'm also tempted to start working on my 0-scale idea a bit more. The problem is that all track will be hand laid, so it's difficult to draw a track plan. I'll likely need to order a few of the key components first to get a good idea of the size. Of course, those components are quite costly (around 62 euro per turnout, and I really need the turntable which costs some 800 euro in total...)

[scott]

Not much news, it's WAY too hot in the train room to do anything with the layout =)

 

Boy, I know that feeling. :-P

[quinntopia]

Quote from: Martijn Meerts on July 10, 2010, 12:38:19 PM

Not much news, it's WAY too hot in the train room to do anything with the layout =)

 

Boy, I know that feeling. :-P

 

Ditto.  At least in the winter, I have some space heaters to provide warmth, but there's no easy way to cool down the 'train room' during the summer!

[Martijn Meerts]

No pictures yet, but there has been progress =)

 

I've build some 20 light strips for the main station and it's platforms. Each platform section will get 2 warm white LEDs hidden away. I'm not entirely sure how it'll end up looking lit up considering the placement of the LEDs, but hopefully it won't be too bad. I've also worked a little bit on the station building itself, still need to figure out the best way to do the lighting there.

 

On the other end of the layout we've started doing some landscaping. Been using a lot of the Woodland Scenics stuff, which seems to work rather nice. Especially their way of painting rock surfaces is doing wonders compared to how we used to paint rock =) We've also started thinking about the train station that should go on that end. It's an unconventional setup, so pretty much everything needs to be scratch built.

 

Hopefully I'll have some pictures soon.

[Martijn Meerts]

PICTURES!! 

 

 

Image 074:

I'm pretty sure everyone's been at this stage at one point or another. The infamous "Plaster Cloth Mountains" =)

 

 

Image 075:

Using a Noch/Woodlands Scenics rock mold and the lightweight hydrocal stuff, I cast this rock. I also cast some smaller bits and pieces, and used plaster cloth for the initial layer of incorporating the rock into the landscape. After the plaster cloth, I add a layer of plaster to get rid of the typical plaster cloth looks, and add some rock-like looks instead.

 

 

Image 076:

Experimented with a piece of track leading into the smaller of the 2 stations. Ballasted it, added some basic layer of grassy stuff, painted the rock wall, and added some bushes and more green. This is really the first step of the scenery, I'll be adding more bushes and plants and variations in color etc. later

 

 

Image 077:

The rock from image 075, this time completely integrated into the scenery. Again, this is only the first layer of scenery, more will be added later on.

[KenS]

That's a great-looking rock outcrop. Very natural feel to it.

[Martijn Meerts]

Quick update. We've added quite a few things recently, such as the small point-to-point line and started working on the service terminal as well. Furthermore we've started working on the smaller of the 2 train stations, adding tunnel portals and dressing it up with plaster.

 

We've also adjusted and measured the speed of all trains, so they run at a bit more prototypical speeds ;)

 

However, the project is currently on hold for a little bit. There's a chance we're buying a house, which means the layout needs to be cut up into movable parts. The main frame is possible to take apart in 4 sections, but we still need to figure out how and where to cut the track and scenery etc. The upside is that the top floor of the house we're looking at, is a single room of about 8.5 x 5.5 meters, and pretty much all of that space will be for trains ;)

[keitaro]

nice be great having own room.

 

btw great pics

[Martijn Meerts]

Quick update again. Project is still on hold while we're looking at a new place. The previously mentioned house fell through, the bank pulled out. In hindsight it was probably a good thing, since it would've been quite expensive for the first 10 years or so.

 

I've put up a bid for another house, which has been accepted. I'll be dropping by some financial advisor who's taking care of all the money bits. If the financial stuff all works out (still some things unclear there) I might be moving around September. That house has an attic space converted to a bedroom/hobbyroom of about 6 x 4 meter, give or take a few. The biggest advantage is that there's a lot of natural light up there, which is great when building. The house also has a garage, which means I won't need to do al the cutting and drilling in the train room.

[Martijn Meerts]

It looks like I bought a house.. Or at least, it's about 99% certain :) I got all the financial stuff taken care of, and now it's just a matter of finalizing everything and then signing all the official papers.

 

This means I'll be moving late September/early October.

 

The advantage is that I'll have a large-ish room for trains on the attic. The disadvantage is the the layout in this thread might not fit in one of the 2nd floor bedrooms. We're not quite sure what to do, there's been some talk about selling most of this stuff, and sticking to mainly Japanese trains instead. We don't really want to sell though :)

 

 

I did manage to get some pictures of the current state of the layout though...

 

Image 078:

Overview of the right leg of the layout (not much has happened here recently)

 

 

Image 079:

Overview of the left leg of the layout, where we've been working quite a bit on the station area, and prepared for the addition of the turntable and servicing terminal.

 

 

Image 080:

General overview shot (the room is too small to get the entire thing in 1 shot. Might have to try with my wide angle lens at some point :))

 

 

Image 081:

Couple of trains parked on the hidden yard.

[bill937ca]

Out of curiosity. Do houses in your area have basements?  Where I am usable attics aren't really that common.

[keitaro]

come to aus we have neither attics or basements :(

 

Need to buy a 5 bedroom house i think haha trains can have bedrooms to :)

 

btw that is one really nice looking layout going to be hard to move that if you do.

[Martijn Meerts]

Bill, older houses tend to have basements, but the problem is that they're usually not very usable for trains. Always very damp, and you can barely stand up straight..

 

Usable attics are also not the most common, but more and more you see people converting the attic to an additional bedroom/hobbyroom. Our current attic is terrible.. Freezing cold in winter, boiling hot in summer, and very unpredictable during the other seasons. The new attic however is much better and had plenty space for a nice (Japanese) layout.

 

Counting the attic, the new house has 4 bedrooms.. The one on the attic will be for the Japanese stuff and general hobby room, and one of the smaller ones would be for the non-Japanese layout. It's not hard to move btw, just a lot of work marking all the wires and such :)

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, there might be a change of plans, which might see this layout be torn down completely...

 

The new house has 2 largish bedrooms and 1 tiny bedroom upstairs, as well as a good sized bedroom up on the attic. The initial thought was that I use the smallest bedroom as an actual bedroom, and use 1 of the bigger bedrooms for the current layout. The attic room would then be for a Japanese layout as well as have my desk/TV/hi-fi gear etc.

 

However, due to various circumstances, the smallest bedroom might have to be used for something else, which means I need to use the bedroom that the current layout was supposed to be in. That means the current layout needs to be moved to the attic, which again means that there's not enough space for what I was planning for the Japanese layout.

 

I can't use the current layout for the Japanese trains, because most of them won't get over the Minitrix turnouts. On top of that, I find the switch motors to be too unreliable, especially for a 16-car shinkansen at high speed :)

 

Starting a new layout with only Peco track, or at least replacing all the problematic Minitrix turnouts is going to be rather expensive. Getting the track could also be a bottleneck because it's not readily available anywhere nearby. That means that if you need an additional turnout while building, I'll end up having to wait 2-3 weeks or so to get it...

[Martijn Meerts]

The decision has been made... The 4 pictures I posted recently turned out to be from the final state of the layout. In fact, we've already started dismantling it. I don't think any parts will be re-used as-is for the layout in the new house.

 

I have to say, it was a really tough decision, a lot of work has gone into the layout, and my father has really enjoyed running trains on it. The worst thing is really that it's going to take quite a while to get something new up and running, which means my father won't be able to run any trains at all for quite a long time. We may end up building a small layout to give the trains their necessary workouts while we work on something bigger, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

For now, it looks like there'll be a 3 to 4 month layout building break until we can move into the new house, and get it in order.

[cteno4]

Martijn,

 

Hey congrats, sounds like the house is a done deal! now the move, ugh! not fun...

 

while dismantling the old layout is a bummer it will let you and your father come up with a new and better layout for your trains!

 

cant wait to see picts of the new digs!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Bernard]

Marti - Congrats on the new house....just wondering about the basement issues in the Netherlands, does it have anything to due with the fact that most of the country is below sea level?

 

Sorry to hear about having to dismantle all of that work on the new layout....but have to say I've never had any problems with Peco turnouts if you can go that way.

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, the house is pretty much a done deal, can't really see what can go wrong considering the bank has given the green light for the mortgage etc. We just have to wait now for the current owners to be able to move in to their new place, which is still being built :)

 

Bernard, the problem with basements (and attics) here, is that in most cases they're not meant to store things or as living space. They use cheap(er) materials, no isolation and generally don't even finish them off. The new house doesn't have a basement, and the attic has for the most part been converted to a bedroom/hobby room.

 

There are houses with great basements as well though, but that's usually after people spend a lot of money on it. A friend of mine from high school used to live in this large house where the basement was turned into a bar/disco. Some people even have swimming pools in their basements. It's usually only the far too expensive homes that allow this though.

 

As for a new layout, depending on the exact space we have, we're trying to make a layout that can handle my Japanese trains as well. I doubt there'll be a train station big enough to fit a 16-car shinkansen, but I do want to be able to run them at least (which means the hidden yard will need a couple of tracks of around 260cm long ;))

 

I did start working on a station.. So far it's just a Marklin H0 track plan converted to N-scale Peco code 55. Many things need to be adjusted though, but it's a good general idea for a more realistic station. But again, we really need to know exactly how much space we have before designing anything definite.