Starter DCC Recommendations.

[Martijn Meerts]

Actually forgot a couple of things, it was getting late yesterday 😉

 

There has been mention of things like Loconet and Railcom, so a quick note on that.

 

Loconet is basically a way to connect handheld controllers, accessory decoders and occupancy detectors and the like to the command station. It's originally a Digitrax thing, and I believe it's still a closed system, as in, other manufacturers need to pay a license fee to implement Loconet. Alternatives are ECoSLink (ESU), XpressNet (Lenz), Sx bus (Selectrix) and S88 (Marklin, occupancy detection only I believe). Since not all command stations support Loconet, this is something you want to keep in mind when picking one. Some command stations that don't have Loconet built in do have adapters, like for example ESU's "L.Net converter", which allows you to connect Loconet devices to the ECoSLink bus,

 

Railcom is a bi-directional communication protocol, which means the decoder can talk to the command station without the command station first asking the decoder for info. You could add this to occupancy detection, so that you're certain which train is entering a block considering the train will pass on its address along with the detection. This does require some additional hardware though. Railcom was originally developed by Lenz, and these days is built into many decoders. There's also Railcom Plus, which automatically detects when a new train is placed on the track, and registers it automatically in the command station (if it supports Railcom Plus). An alternative to Railcom is Digitrax's transpoding system.

 

The main advantage that I've seen with Railcom, is that programming becomes a bit easier, especially for function decoders. A decoder with Railcom will always give feedback and can always return data. Before Railcom, if you had a function decoder that was driving the head / tail light LEDs in a cab car, it wouldn't acknowledge programming commands or allow you to read its settings. That's because the decoder needed a certain amount of load. With a Railcom enabled decoder, you can read them before even installing them. It sounds rather minor, but it's actually a really nice feature, and the only thing I use Railcom for. I don't know much about the Digitrax transponding, but it likely has much of the same features.

 

[Kanpai Keith]

Interesting to read about Railcom, Digikeijs will work with it.  So I think I’ll be starting with a DR5000.  Looks like that’s a nice expandable system for the beginner on a modest (for railway modelling 🤣) that see me right for the foreseeable future. 

 

Thanks for all your responses. 

[chadbag]

One of the nice things about the DR5000-ADJ is it supports Loconet, XpressNet, and Sx / S88 IIRC.  So that you basically have the whole world of DCC that *should* work with it.  

 

One thing I've noticed about Loconet is almost all the newer systems are compatible with it to some degree (NCE not).  Some require add-ons.

 

With the DR5000 you'll need to also get a controller device (throttle) or use a Z21 (or other) soft throttle on your phone.  I use the Z21 WLANmaus series (2x)  plus soft throttles.  I have a Digitrax LNWI module hooked up through Loconet so I can run WiThrottle as well as Z21 mode for soft throttles.  Wired throttles that support one of those standards Martijn mentioned should all work.

 

[chadbag]

Just FYI for people who use the Digikeijs DR5000-ADJ command station or are investigating it.

 

There is a Groups.io mail group for Digikeijs at https://groups.io/g/Digikeijs

 

Just found it today.  BUt it seems reasonably active and a place to ask questions etc.

 

 

[cbet]

On 10/28/2020 at 12:23 AM, gavino200 said:

If I were to start again I'd choose something from ESU

@gavino200which of the ESU controller would you choose?  Have you also checked out the Fleischmann/Roco z21?

 

[cbet]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:22 AM, Martijn Meerts said:

I actually like the Lokpilots so much, I'm going to replace all my non-Lokpilot decoders with them, eventually

@Martijn Meertscan Lokpilots replace the Kato drop-down decoders like the EM13, like for Kato DCC friendly Shinkansens?

[gavino200]

35 minutes ago, cbet said:

@gavino200which of the ESU controller would you choose?  Have you also checked out the Fleischmann/Roco z21?

 

 

I like the  ESU equipment, but I decided to go with a Digikeijs system in the end. Martijn has an ESU system. He could give you better information. I use a Z21 Wilan-multimaus throttle with my system. I like it a lot so far. I like my current system, but I'm only in about my third week of using it so it'll take a while before I can give you some mature reflection. So far the graphical interface has been great and the customer service has been excellent. I even had help from the reps last week on a Sunday morning!

[Kiha66]

27 minutes ago, cbet said:

can Lokpilots replace the Kato drop-down decoders like the EM13, like for Kato DCC friendly Shinkansens?

 

From what I understand, ESU currently has no drop in decoders for kato trains.  They are planning to release a EM13 style decoder in the future, but as of the latest info only will be doing a sound decoder.  

[cbet]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:46 PM, Martijn Meerts said:

or just running some trains, something like a Digitrax Zephyr set, or the Roco Z21 basic would be enough, and they're not priced that crazy either

@Martijn Meerts Thanks for all the info here; I'm learning a lot.  As a beginner in DCC I've narrowed down to z21 (white case) or Z21 (black case).  The white case because it comes in a starter set with Fleischmann locos with sound/cars/z21/WLAN router/WLANMaus/oval track for about 550 Euro.  The Z21 black case is more capable for sure and does not come in a set.  When priced individually, the black case with all the same components as the white case come to about 1K Euro.  Which do you think is a better buy for a beginner who wants to learn and build slowly.  I'm curious, though the white case is much less expensive, it might be very limiting in the near future.  The black case when bought as a set is twice as much, and not sure if worth it.  I appreciate yours and anyone's opinion on this.

[chadbag]

I personally believe in buy once cry once (but don't break your budget).

 

Here is some info on the differences.  The Black has a lot more expandability and Loconet compatibility.

 

https://www.roco.cc/en/service/faq/64-0-0-0-0-0-0-007008-0/index.html

[Martijn Meerts]

15 hours ago, cbet said:

@Martijn Meertscan Lokpilots replace the Kato drop-down decoders like the EM13, like for Kato DCC friendly Shinkansens?

 

As Kiha said, currently ESU doesn't have a drop in decoder for any of the Kato (or Tomix) trains. They are working on an EM13 style decoder,  but only a sound decoder has been announced. I do wonder if they're also going to do a non-sound version, which would make sense, but you never now.

 

 

15 hours ago, cbet said:

@Martijn Meerts Thanks for all the info here; I'm learning a lot.  As a beginner in DCC I've narrowed down to z21 (white case) or Z21 (black case).  The white case because it comes in a starter set with Fleischmann locos with sound/cars/z21/WLAN router/WLANMaus/oval track for about 550 Euro.  The Z21 black case is more capable for sure and does not come in a set.  When priced individually, the black case with all the same components as the white case come to about 1K Euro.  Which do you think is a better buy for a beginner who wants to learn and build slowly.  I'm curious, though the white case is much less expensive, it might be very limiting in the near future.  The black case when bought as a set is twice as much, and not sure if worth it.  I appreciate yours and anyone's opinion on this.

 

For smaller layouts, the white one should be enough. It does offer everything needed for for example computer control / automation. One annoyance can be that there's only 1 track output, so main and programming track will be the same. You'd have to be careful when programming with multiple trains on the track. You can fix that by adding a 2 way switch with 1 output being the layout, and the other being a dedicated programming track.

 

The white z21 would definitely be a good start, and since it comes in starter sets, it's also financially a good choice. All the accessories you might get (turnout decoders, occupancy detectors, boosters etc.) are compatible with the black z21, so if you do decide to update, none of that is actually wasted. The white z21 you can then either sell, or possibly use for something like a small test layout.

 

That said, I don't know all that much about the z21, so maybe someone else has additional / more useful info.