Hitachi to bid for SNCF TGV replacement contract

[bikkuri bahn]

SNCF will issue a request for bids next year to replace TGV trainsets.  Hitachi appears to be realistic about it prospects (i.e. a long shot), and Alstom seems unconcerned.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aWDb8VO.Yplc

[westfalen]

Stranger things have happened, look across the channel at Britain. As it says in the article Japanese built Hitachi class 395 trains have recently started operating there on the high speed line from St Pancras, and the country is full of EMD diesels which would have been unimaginable thirty years ago.

[Mudkip Orange]

Motraghi said the Japanese company is also encouraged by developments in the U.S., where the economic stimulus package passed by Congress in February included $8 billion to develop a high-speed network and President Barack Obama in April identified 10 potential corridors where the trains might run.

 

If they selected 500- or 700- series stock for California High Speed Rail, I think I would faint.

[qwertyaardvark]

If they selected 500- or 700- series stock for California High Speed Rail, I think I would faint.

 

I probably would faint as well! you can see the 700 in the fly california livery in their video and i found this on pixiv, which i think you'll very much enjoy  

[Mudkip Orange]

I probably would faint as well! you can see the 700 in the fly california livery in their video and i found this on pixiv, which i think you'll very much enjoy  

 

Nice!

 

Although I do hope that the stations for the California High Speed Rail are a bit less drab then the "basic Kato platform set 20-815" in the photo.

[Bernard]

If they selected 500- or 700- series stock for California High Speed Rail, I think I would faint.

 

I probably would faint as well! you can see the 700 in the fly california livery in their video and i found this on pixiv, which i think you'll very much enjoy  

 

Looking at the photo....I don't know but I think it would really make traveling by rail in the US more attractive.

[to2leo]

Anything is better than what we have in N. America right now.

 

In fact, I think using the retiring ICE or TGV models would be light years ahead of what N. America has right now! 

 

If I am SNCF, I will divide the contract and invite Hitachi into the competition to create more bargaining power.

 

But I think Hitachi should better redesign the look of E5 for the French and the Europeans.

[bikkuri bahn]

But I think Hitachi should better redesign the look of E5 for the French and the Europeans.

 

They most certainly would.  The nose of the E5 is not a styling exercise- it is there for the express purpose of reducing tunnel boom, as the environmental noise restrictions in Japan are strict.  As the tunnels are wider in Europe or N. Am, tunnel boom is not a big issue, thus the nose shape is not as critical in the design.

[qwertyaardvark]

They most certainly would.  The nose of the E5 is not a styling exercise- it is there for the express purpose of reducing tunnel boom,

 

As an existing example of nose re-engineering, just take a quick look at the difference between the Japanese 700 and the Taiwanese 700T. The 700T's nose is considerably shorter since Taiwan has the luxury of wider tunnels.

 

700:

 

700T:

[David]

Anything is better than what we have in N. America right now.

 

In fact, I think using the retiring ICE or TGV models would be light years ahead of what N. America has right now! 

 

If I am SNCF, I will divide the contract and invite Hitachi into the competition to create more bargaining power.

 

But I think Hitachi should better redesign the look of E5 for the French and the Europeans.

 

Does JR West/Central have any 0 series sets sitting in a yard that haven't been cut up or put in a museum? 

[to2leo]

Thinking out loud, I wonder if Japan is still building tunnel the way it was or has it adapted the wider tunnel standard of the TGV and ICE?

[bikkuri bahn]

Thinking out loud, I wonder if Japan is still building tunnel the way it was or has it adapted the wider tunnel standard of the TGV and ICE?

 

 

That's a good question.  I have a hunch that the answer is no, for the reason that tunnels are very expensive (most expensive engineering aspect of railway building, I believe).  Given the number and length of tunnels on the Tohoku/Hokkaido Shinkansen route, I would think maintaining the existing standards would keep costs down a bit.  Thus cheaper mitigation measures such as nose cone design and sound baffles at tunnel entrances are necessary.

[EWS60008]

I think the JR 700 would be a perfect replacement for the Class 91 225 sets that operate on the East Coast Main Line in the UK .

[Guest ___]

Motraghi said the Japanese company is also encouraged by developments in the U.S., where the economic stimulus package passed by Congress in February included $8 billion to develop a high-speed network and President Barack Obama in April identified 10 potential corridors where the trains might run.

 

If they selected 500- or 700- series stock for California High Speed Rail, I think I would faint.

 

Don't expect to see any new HSR lines here anytime soon. Keep in mind that we're already five years past due on the feds selecting the city that was to get the maglev. Pittsburgh and DC have had this battle going on for years over who would get the USDOT/FRA approval for this. Out of the blue, it got put on hiatus for years until the Obama administration decided to green light it again.

 

Obama is good as doling out the funds, but in the end, little of that stimulus money has not really gone anywhere.  Case in point, there's a lot of shovel ready project that got finding that have yet to still begun. (Not to blame the administration, but rather the internal politics and bureaucracy that comes both all levels of government involved.)

 

With the problems CA is having with everything else on the dollar front at the moment, I would not expect that HSR or any other transportation projects are going to get the priority promised. And any such money that the feds give to the state find themselves diverted to other projects. (As they have been here in MD)

[Mudkip Orange]

Don't expect to see any new HSR lines here anytime soon.

 

Blah blah blah... no, high speed rail won't happen on the east coast with its cold and snow and machine politics. It'll happen in California, or Florida, or Texas first. My money's on Cali.

[harukablue]

Alsthom the constructer of the TGV sets are having a pretty rough time at the moment here in Europe, they have pulled out of the running to construct the EMU commuter sets for London Transports new Thames link line with the Xtrapolis train sets.

 

French businesses normally are very loyal to French business, thus Connex the French operator of trains in Australia and other parts of the world has bought French trains to run in Australia, I would be very suprised if Hitachi win a contract to supply SNCF with trains, here in the UK people either love or hate Japanese products from TVs to cars but the Hitachi sets have been met with great approval as they are billed as being based on the Shinkansen where they are more like SONIC units, but most people think a Japanese SONIC is a hedgehog thats owned by SEGA lol.

 

Lew

[quinntopia]

Okay...this is waaaaaay late, but Mudkip's comment on the 'fly california' photo cracked me up:

Although I do hope that the stations for the California High Speed Rail are a bit less drab then the "basic Kato platform set 20-815" in the photo.

 

That. is. hilarious! 

[Guest ___]

Don't expect to see any new HSR lines here anytime soon.

 

Blah blah blah... no, high speed rail won't happen on the east coast with its cold and snow and machine politics. It'll happen in California, or Florida, or Texas first. My money's on Cali.

 

Not going to happen without the money from DC.

[Mudkip Orange]

Not going to happen without the money from DC.

 

I think Cali's got that under control already.

[bikkuri bahn]

Although I do hope that the stations for the California High Speed Rail are a bit less drab then the "basic Kato platform set 20-815" in the photo.

 

Oh, you can bet the consultants and contractors will make sure to build the fanciest (and most expensive) "award-winning" platforms around-this is California, after all.  Actually being a good design from a practical, operational viewpoint is another matter however- see the example of the Millbrae Caltrain/BART station and SFO connection.

 

btw, that's a scary picture of Pelosi, photoshopped or not...

[quinntopia]

Oh, you can bet the consultants and contractors will make sure to build the fanciest (and most expensive) "award-winning" platforms around-this is California, after all.  Actually being a good design from a practical, operational viewpoint is another matter however- see the example of the Millbrae Caltrain/BART station and SFO connection.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, at least for me, that's part of what killed the now-defunct "Seattle Monorail Project".  Seattle's 2000-2005 project to install an urban transit system using monorail's had all the potential to be the coolest thing around.  Unfortunately, so much money was going into creating elaborate stations (and other 'extra's') that an already expensive proposal got even more out of control and ultimately voter backlash killed it off.

[Mudkip Orange]

Yeah, unfortunately, at least for me, that's part of what killed the now-defunct "Seattle Monorail Project".  Seattle's 2000-2005 project to install an urban transit system using monorail's had all the potential to be the coolest thing around.  Unfortunately, so much money was going into creating elaborate stations (and other 'extra's') that an already expensive proposal got even more out of control and ultimately voter backlash killed it off.

 

I worked on that project (as an intern).

 

Let me tell you, everything that happened, happened because of NIMBYism. Prior to the "full" vote (when it was still referred to as the "Elevated Transportation Company," and Dick Falkenbury still showed up to meetings - often in the same shirt he wore the night before), it was a skeletal agency that ran everything 5% under budget. We had actually gone over the cost estimates for the (then) under construction Las Vegas monorail and compared them to highway projects to try to figure out where contractors were gouging on price (because it's a "transit" project). And we were seriously courting Hitachi. We actually had moved into offices in the Seafirst building because, as one of my bosses put it, "the Japanese don't respect you unless you're in a big building."

 

All that went out the window when we got funded and the project went to the "serious" stages, and the community groups came out of the woodwork. The original Seattle Center monorail had a unique beam design, so in order to use off-the-shelf technology (whether Bombardier or Hitachi) we had to either knock it down or else find a new route. Of course no one in their right mind is going to knock down the original World's Fair monorail, so that put us down 2nd Avenue, rapidly gentrifying with condo after condo of douchebag yuppies.

 

It was 2nd avenue's opposition to monorail stations "blocking their view" that led to the "Iris" design, which is what jacked up the cost so much. Then there was the difficulty negotiating with various players in "SoDo," which transformed a high-speed north south line into a twisty-turny route that zig-zagged back and forth like Chicago's Ravenswood 'L'.

 

Combine all that with a poorly-worded ballot measure (some people who thought they were voting for it were actually voting against it) and the general public backlash against Sound Transit's cost overruns and you had a recipe for disaster. But even then, the vote was close. Incidentally, a decent chunk of Sound Transit's cost overruns were ALSO NIMBYism. The original route for Link ran as a surface route in the SR-99 median from Boeing Access all the way to Sea-Tac. But Tukwila made a fuss, they didn't want it running down "their" boulevard, and so you got the continuous elevated line that backtracks over to Southcenter (but doesn't actually make it to the mall) and then winds back up SR-518.

 

So yeah, don't blame the agencies. Blame the NIMBYs.

[to2leo]

I think that's one of the reasons why I didn't pursue urban planning...

[quinntopia]

All that went out the window when we got funded and the project went to the "serious" stages, and the community groups came out of the woodwork.

 

Mudkip....I LOVE the inside line on this!  Thanks for sharing!  Its actually quite sad, but Seattle, despite its so-called veneer of progressivism is one of the most reactionary cities in the world.  The result of this is that the "NIMBYS" are all over the place here, and have the political and cultural power to dictate how the majority of us live.  Also, I don't mean to 'blame' the agency...I'm also aware that our fabulous state mandates that X% of the budget of all public projects be set aside for 'public art' (which I put in the 'nice to have' not critical part of the design), and your explanation for how things went out of control with the 2nd avenue/Sodo stuff makes total sense.    We see it everyday with the Alaskan Way Viaduct 'emergency' (its an emergency during election years, then its not), the long delayed 520 bridge replacement, the embarrasing 405 and I-5 gridlock, grr.......

 

Okay, "rant off".  Mudkip...you should write a book.  There's still many of us angry at how that turned out.

[bikkuri bahn]

Seattle, despite its so-called veneer of progressivism is one of the most reactionary cities in the world.  The result of this is that the "NIMBYS" are all over the place here, and have the political and cultural power to dictate how the majority of us live

 

Not just Seattle, you just described the San Francisco peninsula communities.  They are always quick to brag about their tradition of innovation and embracing of new ideas, but under all this navel gazing lies a basic conservatism and preservation of the status quo.  This hypocrisy really turns me off about this place, as it does a lot of other people of my generation (so called Generation X), who were raised there.  It doesn't help that the region is well near impossible to afford living in, much less raise a family, unless you make more than 100K a year.