Lubricants

[alpineaustralia]

Gun oil and auto transmission fluid?

[Bernard]

Great post Maged! I have 2 noisy trains that I've lubricated and are still not any better. I have to try your method.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Gun oil and auto transmission fluid?

 

Gun oil is a metal cleaner designed to breakdown carbon deposits. We're not trying to blue the rails. :)

 

Use it liberally to test. Automatic Trans fluid is great for drowning rusty parts and its cheap. To each his own.

[FFISKIV]

I worked for a microscope dealer in sunnyvale, they were cheap and wouldn't purchase the recommended HIGH DOLLAR Olympus lubricants from japan so we used NYE gel instrument lubricant which looks suspiciously like the Aero Locomotive Lubricant stuff. 

Nye didn't work near as good as the real Olympus factory lubricants (which I use religiously now) so I use the NYE on all my RC planes, cars boats.

I never thought of it for trains as Rheolube from NYE has served me well. I also use Labelle 102 plastic compatible gear lubricant.

 

Here is the main NYE web site.

http://www.nyelubricants.com/nye_news.shtml

 

Micromark sells some too.

http://www.micromark.com/Synthetic-Lubricant-Kit,8430.html

[kuro68000]

I have a couple of questions about cleaning and lubricating motors if you don't mind me asking :)

 

Can an ultrasonic cleaner be used on the bogies or the motor itself? Obviously it is going to need re-lubricating afterwards but ultrasonic cleaning is hard to beat for removing old and difficult to get at crud. Will lubricating just the bearings and brushes afterwards be enough for the motor, and the worm drive and gears for the rest?

 

My other question isn't really about lubrication, but is related. There is some grey stuff on the motor coil, solid and difficult to remove. Having said that it looks like some has come off at some point. I don't know what it is, some kind of grease that has set perhaps. It sits directly on the wire between the metal bits. Should I just ignore it or..?

[cteno4]

mojo

 

yes you can use an ultra sonic cleaner on trucks, truck parts and even motors. i use mine by putting the parts into those little plastic condiment holders with isopropanol and then floating that in my small ultrasonic cleaner.

 

motors i would only do as a last resort when they appear to have some real nasty stuff in them and are grinding. ive talked to folks that have actually gotten really old and grungy non running n scale motors and by soaking in some brake fluid and isopropanol getting them running well again.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[KenS]

Brake fluid will eat plastic very effectively (been there, done that), and most modern motors have plastic parts in them, so I wouldn't advise that particular solvent.  I bet it works really well on 60's era motors of steel and bakelite though.

[cteno4]

Yep thats why I mentioned it only for old an very grungy motors. Also a quick ultrasound in break fluid peobablt won't soften plastics much. That's the Bennie of the ultrasonic cleaner, much shorter times in the stuff.

 

Isopropanol is my solvent of choice for mechanism cleaning.

 

Jeff

[keitaro]

i got the aerocar lubricants last week not bad put on my gm models they are noticeably quieter still noist though  :laugh:

 

but it is definately less.

[cteno4]

keitaro,

 

thanks for reminding me to get that set! i had found it at a dealer site and forgot to place the order. unfortunately aerocar's site wants to do cc w.o a secure server! i have a dozen trains that need overhaul here and want to do it before cherry blossom festival if possible.

 

jeff

[keitaro]

no worries it didn't help my MA locos. i guess they are just not good runners

[cteno4]

if you have run them for a while they may need to be cleaned out well. new ma if the growl i lube and they go quiet. i have had a couple of second hand ones that lubing alone did not solve the problem and i had to pull the trucks apart and clean them which is not fun as some ma trucks are a devil to pull apart, they seem to have used many different truck designs over the years! good cleaning and relubing has them running just like any kato or ma power unit.

 

jeff

[CaptOblivious]

I love my Aero lubricants; best of all, one set will last a lifetime!

[kuro68000]

Thanks, I will try ultrasonic cleaning on just the gearing but not the main motor, maybe in a iso bath. Reassuring to know I won't kill it. The Portram is more of a worry...

 

How about the grey stuff? I took a couple of pictures:

 

   

 

It is solid and hard to remove. I am concerned that the side where there isn't much of it might be unbalancing the whole thing.

[cteno4]

hmm that is snotty stuff! not sure exactly what that is. i have seen some motor windings painted with some paint, but this looks more like putty.

 

the new kato portrams are a whole nother story with the micro miniaturization they have and the integrated tiny can motor its going to be a challenge to work on them! im not sure how easily the motor comes out of the truck mechanism, i have yet to pull one apart and only looked at photos of the disassembly of one.

 

they were selling the powered trucks as spare parts for 1800Yen, but unfortunately they are completely sold out of them. they would be great to have for spares if they get killed in overhaul attempts or for kitbashing other interesting things with.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[KenS]

It may have been put there intentionally to balance the weight of the rotor.

 

I've never seen it on any of the Kato motors I've had apart, but that could be because they do a better job of balancing them, or conversely because they don't care about a small imbalance.

 

Motors spin at around 10,000 rpm at full speed, so an unbalaned rotor can cause a lot of vibration, leading to both noise and wear.

[Lawrence]

Must admit to being quite surprised at the mention of lubricating brushes, I was always under the impression you should never lubricate carbon brushes as it softens them and they deteriorate more quickly and that the carbon acts as a natural lubricant anyway.  I would be interested to see how this works in the longer term.

 

On ultrasonic cleaners, has anybody tried this one from Maplin  http://www.maplin.co.uk/ultra-7000-ultrasonic-cleaner-223108?c=froogle&u=223108&t=module any feedback on this or a better option would be welcome

[KenS]

Must admit to being quite surprised at the mention of lubricating brushes, I was always under the impression you should never lubricate carbon brushes as it softens them and they deteriorate more quickly and that the carbon acts as a natural lubricant anyway.  I would be interested to see how this works in the longer term.

 

I'm inclined to agree. Brushes are mostly carbon, and as they wear down they're essentially producing graphite, and self-lubricating.  Also, any lubricant used on the face has to be conductive to be effective, and if there's too much it could cause a short, so it's definitely something to be careful with.  On the other hand, brushes have to move freely in their mounting to follow any irregularity and to stay in contact as the face wears down.  It does make a bit of sense that that portion, particularly after cleaning, might have a need to be lubricated.

 

Caboose Hobbies has a tech tip that suggests that the real issue is cleaning the commutator of "gunk" that builds up to maintain good conductivity, and that Atlas "Conducta-lube" is both a cleaner and a lubricant:

 

http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/techtips.php?techtip_id=3

 

It also suggests that other substances (like track cleaner) can work, and that burnishing the commutator with a stick of balsa after applying the cleaner is a good idea.  This is probably more useful advice for large-scale motors, which are easier to disassemble. But I believe at least some Kato motors have replaceable brushes, although I've never tried to take one apart.

[Lawrence]

I certainly remember cleaning the commutator from my motor & generator training days but not the brushes, we always just wiped them with a paper towel (ok they were a bit bigger than N scale  ) certainly were always warned about keeping the brushes away from any contaminants.

[CaptOblivious]

Having seen Caboose Hobbies's repair department in person, I'm inclined to accept their advice…It's quite a large operation.

[Lawrence]

Having seen Caboose Hobbies's repair department in person, I'm inclined to accept their advice…It's quite a large operation.

 

So was the Royal Air Force  :laugh: , but I'm sure they wouldn't recommend it if there wasn't some merit in it

[keitaro]

so you don't need to lube the flywheel? or if you can what one to use? not that mine do but surely they must get dirty or dry in there ?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

It's been years since I raced radio controlled cars. I remember we used some sophisticated lubes for the motors and gears.

 

Some train brands pack the grease in. After they sit it becomes like cold bacon grease with maple syrup.

 

How does Labelle Lubes compare to the Aero brand?

[Mudkip Orange]

My new Keihan 9000 that just arrived croaks like my Athearn diesels that are 15 years old, and there's a fair amount of the herky jerky at low speeds. What should I be looking at lubricating? The truck gears?

 

---A

[cteno4]

yeah thicker oil for the truck gears. add a tiny bit sparingly (tooth pick or micro applicator brush works well), run a little and then repeat if it still looks really dry and cranky. if the motor is growling it may also be those bearings, and those should get a tiny bit of very fine oil.

 

if its still jerky you may have to open the trucks up. ive had a couple suck some schmutz up into them in the past. take out the gears and clean everything then reassemble and lube some.

 

track and wheels all clean? assume other trains are running fine on that bit of track. sorry thats a "is it plugged in" question, but always worth just checking.

 

jeff