Kato viaduct/incline advice

[GCS]

Hi guys,

 

I’ve got a V11 and V12 set and will be getting it out soon (and more regularly). My only concern is the incline, if any of you have a V12 set how do your trains get on with it?

 

Im less concerned with my Kato models, but more so with my UK Farish, and maybe other brands....

 

I was thinking about purchasing 23-049 but I’m a little confused, does it just slot inbetween the current piers with the V12 set or does it extend the incline and make the incline less steep? (hope that made sense)

 

https://www.traintrax.co.uk/23049-double-track-incline-pier-p-316.html

 

Thanks!

 

Guy

[Yavianice]

You can slot it in between or double the length of your incline. I recommend the latter. Even long KATO trains don’t like 4% inclines.

[GCS]

Just now, Yavianice said:

You can slot it in between or double the length of your incline. I recommend the latter. Even long KATO trains don’t like 4% inclines.

Double sounds like what I’m after, thanks!

 

How did your RevolutioN Pendolino cope with the incline, similar to Kato?

[Yavianice]

No problem at all because it has 2 motor cars.

[GCS]

Good, it’s the only upcoming train I’ll be acquiring which was a question mark as for performance. 

[Kamome]

The 23-049 piers are also great if you intend to have an incline on a corner. I don’t have the V12 set but have the same incline start tracks and piers from 23-048. These are fine if you use the 248mm viaduct pieces with a pier on each track join on straight track. I think all my trains can navigate up this without issue with the exception of some small Dapol tank engines which hate any inclines. 
 

The problem comes when you need to have a curved incline, especially on the 22.5 degree super-elevated approach track bends. You suddenly have a short track section but need a support pier on the join to the next track piece. The next pier in sequence would create a short steep incline, so this is where the 23-049 have their use. 
 

Just one last point
The 248mm, 186mm double track viaduct straights and R414 45 degree double track viaduct bends have attachment points to add piers at the mid point as well as where the rails join together. This gives extra stability especially on the corners. 
 

[Yavianice]

I have used multiple of the white connector pieces to connect the short curves to the long curves, putting the pier in the middle of the long curve. It seems to work but it could still be a bit wibblywobbly. I have placed some spare foam cuttings under the corners to make them less wibblywobbly.

[Tuga]

I started my layout with the 20-840 set (no longer available) plus the 23-048 and the 23-049 sets. 

 

 

The elevated track is quite sturdy this way. I have to agree that might not be visually appealing for some people, but it works really good.

If you have enough space you can space them up more but it will became more wobbly.

Edited August 12, 2020 by tavora

[Tuga]

Not the best photo, but if you still have any doubts about the RevolutioN Pendolino can or will cope with the inclines.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by tavora

[GCS]

Great advice and photos guys. Fully sold on the extra pier set, it’s only £20 so I can’t go wrong.

[Kiran]

Rapido Pendolino does fine as mentioned because of 2 motor cars even on 4% grade. Kato ICE4 is also fine with it. Kato Eurostar even with only 1 motor car runs amazingly well pulling the basic and add set. Dapol class 43 HST refuses to go up 4%. Even with 2% just about makes it.

[cteno4]

 Most of the Japanese trains in 8 car units will go up 4% and even up to 6% grades with one motor car, but they can start screaming as you apply more power to keep speeds up the incline and need to back off downhill. We had a club member that did a whole bunch of wild large Unitrak layouts with crazy inclines and elevated sections with helixes and such even. At times it looked like a roller coaster ride! He did blow a few motors (some I think brushes and one fused up and would not turn!) and stripped some drive shafts and even snapped one due to the voltage he had to apply and the abruptness of some of his spectacular wrecks. 
 

he also had transition issues with his steeper gradients and I eventually made him some custom straight tracks that I slit the roadbed and carefully bent the track vertically and it helped a lot to not have the transitions at track joints at hard angles. Also made him several different sets of concretely looking wood piers at different gradients and heights to play with.

 

he had fun with it but again it ended up looking more like a roller coaster than a train and always problems, but it was his joy! 
 

cheers

 

jeff

[Yavianice]

Yeah when you have a 2% incline then the beginning (the "starting" piece of track) is a bit steep. I put a bit of foam under the track to make the beginning of the slope a bit more gradual, because with the expansion pack for the piers the top incline is also gradual. 

[Kamome]

I also forgot to mention, with the standard inclines (23-048) my 0 and 200 series shinkansens always grounded a bit on the summit. Not enough to stop it but did make some light scratches on the underside of the cars.

[EF57]

Hey jeff, you‘ve mentioned that club member with the roller coaster layout several times now.  Any pix?

[cteno4]

Unfortunately no I don’t have picts of his layout when he was in his roller coaster period! I should have brought the camera (pre smartphone days a decade or more back) as he was always changing and evolving his layouts.He started with a 4’x6’ modular train top (I made him 2’x4’ modules of 1” styrene foam insulation board with 1’x3’ wood frames that boot together) that sat on top of part of his large dining room table and it grew to 10’x4’, then shrank back to 6’x4’. It was when the layout was huge he got into many inclines and a 2x helix loop of kato double track viaduct. at one point I cut up a stack of foam Insulation board contours for a 3’ high mountain in one corner that had the faller cable gondola setup going to it from the middle of the layout!
 

He had great fun coming up with new dreams and tearing it up and rebuilding all the time. Id make him more modules or piers or other specialized bits and pieces to help him make his wild ideas work. He really enjoyed it for a few years. He settled back to the last layout he did a little writeup on and by that time he was getting smarter not doing the crazy inclines he was into that were fun but created issues a lot of the time! I also made his a 4’x5’ layout on long spindly caster legs so he could store it over a large chest in his living room. Throttles were ina pull out drawer. It was all single track more rural line stuff for small trains. He finally lost interest in trains and went off into painting. Sadly his email no longer works and I’ve lost touch with him.

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/fredslayout.html

 

jeff