Tomix: The Great Debate

[David]

Tomix has a market advantage in that they (though their parent company) target a much wider audience, giving them a better brand name to sell with. Kato's brand is only of meaning to one market - model train enthusiasts who aren't rich or have way too much time on their hands (Micro-Ace/GreenMax).

 

While Tomix doesn't compete directly with the high end market, they do dominate the toy and low range market through the Takara Tomy brand (young children) and the Tomytec brand (older children and early teens, as well as the budget market). This gives the Tomy/Tomix brand a big leg up when these buyers move from toy trains to full on model trains. By comparison Kato does have a leg up for international buyers, as the Kato brand is known and trusted outside of Japan for their American and European prototype models (which are usually superior to their American counterparts, and less expensive then their European counterparts).

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I suppose this is all relative...

 

As a long-term UK modeller I have been on the receiving end of some real stinkers in the past. Instant favourites include:

 

The Farish class 56 (wrong in just so many ways; appearence, dimensions etc.);

Class 101 DMU (nice body but a truely rotten mechanism (even after the single power bogie was replaced) which fortunately could easily be replaced by a Green Max chassis thus giving many British modellers their first taste of Japanese quality);

Castle Class locomotive with their stupid little pony wheels (which in fairness effected almost all Farish steam engines); 1970's body; 1980's motor; 2000's prices  ;

The infamous ill-fitting black plastic gears that almost always split leading to the locomotive bunny hopping down the track before either burning the motor out or locking the chassis up completely;

Various ridiculous livery errors (incorrect numbers to the livery, basic mistakes in colour and shade of the livery) that could have been cured by simply looking in a book;

The legendary Dapol quality control that lead to seized motors because they used the wrong lubrication, locomotives failing to negotiate curves they were advertised as being able to handle and notoriously weedy haulage capacity;

The PECO GWR engine that couldn't pull anything more than about two carriages, but still cost well over £100.00;

6 foot scale gaps between carriage coupling;

Printing so thin that light could show through carriage sides;

 

This list goes on and on and one - and that only includes the N Gauge stuff...

 

Is it any wonder I switched to Japanese  

[Martijn Meerts]

Ok, getting back on topic and away from DCC. Though I'll buy from any Japanese manufacturer, (most US N scale manufacturers could take lessons from any of them), if Kato makes the model I want as well as someone else I'll go with Kato every time. I've always felt Tomix mechanisms weren't made with the same degree of precision as Kato's and the detail was not quite as fine. Kato's slogan "Precision Railroad Models" IMHO is not just idle boasting, Tomix being the No.1 seller in Japan may be more a case of mass production in China and getting more product to market. I look at Tomix as being the Atlas of Japan, and Kato, well they're Kato.

 

It changes per train.. Sometimes the Kato model is better, sometimes the Tomix model. MicroAce is hard to compare since they mostly release trains that the other brands don't release.

 

I really like Kato's Sunrise Express, E4 MAX, EF58-61 and their Orient Express. Tomix's DD51's are real nice, as is their C57, and of course the N700 and the 0-series. As for MicroAce, pretty much all their steamers are great, and I love their 0-series Dr. Yellow.

[Bernard]

Claude - Back in the 80s, I was had 4 gift sets of Bachmann N scale trains, they were all of poor quality and none of them lasted that long. Years later when Bachmann came out with their high end Spectrum line, some modelers were giving it very good reviews, but I still associate it with their earlier models. When I found out that the price of the Bachmann Spectrum trains are comparable to Kato, Atlas, MicroAce and yes even Tomix, I'll go with the later train makers.

 

On another thought, does anyone know if Tomix has redesigned their earlier models and replaced that "spring worm"?  

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't think I have a single Tomix train with that "spring worm" mechanic, but I haven't checked all of them very thoroughly yet ;)

[Hezekiah Strawbody]

Right now I really like the Tomix Odakyu 50000 Romance train BUT which drive system will come with it if I decide to get it??

 

Hezehiak - In anther post you stated that Tomix is the #1 as a seller with the people in Japan, but resting on your past reputation doesn't always mean you're going to stay the best if you don't make advances or modifications with your product.

 

Tomix have not used the spring worm for many years on new products - only for re-releases that are not re-tooled. However some new re-releases eg Meitetsu Panorama Cars will have a 'proper' drive system 

[Bernard]

 

 

Tomix have not used the spring worm for many years on new products - only for re-releases that are not re-tooled. However some new re-releases eg Meitetsu Panorama Cars will have a 'proper' drive system 

 

Hezekiah - Do you know if the Tomix Odakya Romance 50000 VSE set that has been re-released is using a drive shaft to turn the gears in the trucks?

[Guest ___]

Claude - Back in the 80s, I was had 4 gift sets of Bachmann N scale trains, they were all of poor quality and none of them lasted that long. Years later when Bachmann came out with their high end Spectrum line, some modelers were giving it very good reviews, but I still associate it with their earlier models. When I found out that the price of the Bachmann Spectrum trains are comparable to Kato, Atlas, MicroAce and yes even Tomix, I'll go with the later train makers.

 

On another thought, does anyone know if Tomix has redesigned their earlier models and replaced that "spring worm"?  

 

Well, the Kiha 40 came out last Feb uses the M-5 motor with worm drive so I would answer yes.

[Guest ___]

 

 

Hezekiah - Do you know if the Tomix Odakya Romance 50000 VSE set that has been re-released is using a drive shaft to turn the gears in the trucks?

 

I believe they use a proper drive system. We have one that runs all the time on the club layout, and is one of my fav models, and one of the very few TOMIX models I like enough to buy. I recall Dmity (romd) opened the power car up once to clean it (though it may have been Jeff) and it had a shaft.

[ToniBabelony]

From what I've noticed with re-releases from Tomix is that they don't have the motor visible any more through the windows of the powered car. This evolved with most models, but some seemed to be stuck in this pattern, up until now, where some of the oldest models (Meitetsu Panorama cars, 2nd gen. KIHA 183 series, 211 Series, Odakyuu Romance Cars, etc.) are being upgraded. Some even receive the status of 'High Grade'.

[alpineaustralia]

All I want to say here is that most people's negative experiences seem to be 'Tomix' versus 'DCC'. As has already be said, Tomix do not seem interested in catering for DCC, so if you try to convert one of their trains to DCC, then that is doing something with their product that they never intended.

 

So it seems that Tomix products are not condusive to conversion to DCC - in that case, don't buy them and try to do it. If it all works out, well and good, however if you stuff it up, then that is not Tomix's fault, and you have no grounds at all to say anything negative about Tomix because of your own lack of skill, knowledge, whatever. Just stick with Kato's limited "DCC Friendly" releases, then you won't have anything to complain about 

 

Of course the same logic applies to any other brand, whether it is Atlas, Life-Like, Fleishmann, Dapol etc etc etc as well that has to be converted by yourself doing cutting, soldering etc etc etc, so lets not single out Tomy as the 'only' brand that is no good.

 

I dont recall anyone ever saying that Tomix was no good. The comments made by me and any others can't be read in abstract. They must be read in the context in which they are made. What kicked off this debate was my comment in relation to how my Tomix's behave - of course, they have all been converted to DCC and I have made no secret about the inconsistent performance in DCC operation.

 

I have in a number of posts made it clear that in relation to DCC, Tomix has proved problematice for me (and some other) but I also hasten to add that I cant fault them in DC operation as I dont have a DC layout and have not heard of many compaints in relation to DC.

 

I dont believe that the problem is me (or anyone else) "stuffing it up" or our "lack of skill or knowledge". We actually dont know what the problem is and through this post we are slowly eliminating various options. Capt Oblivious's thread introduced another potential solution by discussing the problems that he had with his train. Isnt that what this forum is about?

 

As I have only a DCC layout, I do almost exclusively stick Kato because even there non-DCC friendly trains dont have the same DCC problem. This is a shame really because Tomix do produce quite nice trains that Kato dont and they look as good.

 

Yes, Hezekiah is right that the same logic also applies to any other brand, whether it is Atlas, Life-Like, Fleishmann or Dapol.

But then again, they dont produce Japanese trains.

[Guest ___]

Yah, but then again, no one builds a train like IHC AHM 

[alpineaustralia]

Translation please: what is "IHC AHM"?

[bikkuri bahn]

Translation please: what is "IHC AHM"?

 

I think Shashinka is referring to the American manufacturer/distributor Associated Hobby Manufacturers (AHM), which offered a lot of rolling stock in HO scale back in the 60's and 70's. It was a step above Tyco crap and perhaps on the same level or just below Athearn.  I remember they were noted for offering plastic HO scale steam locomotives like the NKP Berkshire, manufactured by Rivarossi.  My childhood friend had an AHM Alco C425, which I recall wasn't too bad given there were no other alternatives, as this was before the age of Atlas with its (then) Japanese imports, not to mention made in China LL proto 2000.  IHC, which is still active (?), has a lot of the original catalog lineup of AHM/Rivarrossi rolling stock, I believe.

[Guest ___]

AHM lasted until the mid-80's. I'd place them on par with Bachman and Life-Life. I think they were a few steps below Athern. At least with Athern you could swap parts out, and the motors were not molded to the plastic trucks like most of the Bachman, Tyco, and a lot of the Life-Like junk.

[alpineaustralia]

Ive got an Athearn N scale challenger with DCC and sound. I must say I love it!

[David]

6 foot scale gaps between carriage coupling;

 

I should show you a picture of my Atlas 70 ton ore cars - The "Lake Superior" design for dock side loading meant the cars where short, stubby little 24' things - and Atlas put on their giant accumate couplers.