Kato - Steam Locomotives

[Steve]

Hello,

 

which (up-to-date Models of) Steam Locomotive Classes do Kato have in their Portfolio?

 

8620 (soon)

C50

C56

C57

C62

D51

 

did I miss anyone?

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Steve

[bill937ca]

C11

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/1703/0/1?Make=Kato

[Kiha66]

Off the top of my head these are all the "modern models" with updated motors and molding.  Kato has made more classes but all the others have cab motors and more basic detailing. 
 

8620 (soon)

9600

C11

C12

C50

C56

C57

C59

C62

D51

[bill937ca]

A Japanese language Kato steamer reference site.       http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/kcat_1.htm

[Christopher_R]

Greetings people.

 

I'm planning on having an steam excursion train on my Nj layout. It's just a generic Japanese scene and the train does not necessarily have to be 100% prototypical. 

 

The locomotive I'm planning on getting is an Kato D51 Mikado. I would like to get some cars for it also, and I have seen the JNR 61 series by Kato. My question is, were these cars hauled by the D51 when they were in regular service?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[roadstar_na6]

@Christopher_R The 60 series and 3*/4* series coaches could be used behind a D51 I think, but Kato recommends the latter on their operation examples. They‘re not that expensive as well 🙂

Edited September 7, 2020 by roadstar_na6

[Christopher_R]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:15 PM, roadstar_na6 said:

@Christopher_R The 60 series and 3*/4* series coaches could be used behind a D51 I think, but Kato recommends the latter on their operation examples. They‘re not that expensive as well 🙂

 

@roadstar_na6 apologies for responding late and thank you for the information. I too have seen that Kato recommends the 3* and 4* series coaches behind the D51. But like I mentioned, this would be a fictional excursion train and I kinda like the roof line of the 60 series better. So was just wondering cause, very much the locomotives and those coaches existed together. I missed out on buying Kato's 10-034 old time car set and I'm on a tight budget. So.......bruh.

 

Best regards!

 

 

[chadbag]

Your train, your rules.

 

Since you are fictional, there is no strict prototype to compare against anyway, just general ones. And again, your train, your rules.  If you like it, do it.  

[Kiha66]

I vaguely remember seeing 60 series behind D51 locomotives.  The 60 series were rebuilt from prewar wooden cars, and were less numerous and older than 3* and 4* series coaches.  I suspect when JNR and later JR was choosing coaches to restore for heritage use, they chose the rolling stock in the best shape which usually lead to more modern cars being chosen.  According to Japanese wikipedia, at least 2 60 series coaches are currently being used in steam service.  Oigawa Railway has one, as does JR east.  8 more are currently stored or displayed around japan but are not used on the main line, and 12 more have been dismantled after being saved.

 

Long story short, 60 series coaches will look fine behind a D51, and have been used for this purpose usually mixed in with other coaches to the modern day.  More importantly, its your railroad so run what makes you happy!   

[Christopher_R]

@Kiha66 thank you. Yes I too read that the 60 series cars were old pre war chassis/boogies with new steel car bodies. 

But thanks, after all, it is my railroad to bend reality a bit!

 

Regards......

 

[Christopher_R]

@chadbag as simple as that right.

 

Thanks and regards

 

[Christopher_R]

@Kiha66  @roadstar_na6 @chadbag

Greetings again friends,

 

Didn't want to start a new thread as this is again regarding the old time 30/40/60 series coaches:

 

What is the difference between the tea (brown) and blue coloured ones of the above mentioned coaches?

 

Thanks in advance.

[roadstar_na6]

nothing but the color in terms of the Kato ones with the same article number (bar the number after the dash)

[Kiha66]

From what I remember, coaches began being painted blue as steam engines were beginning to be retired (both from diesel replacements, but also much earlier as lines were electrified).  The thought was brown would hide the smoke and coal stains, while blue would look modern as those began to be less of a concern.   Any mix of blue and brown was possible after that point, so feel free to choose what you like best.  Some of the kato blue coaches also have different molding, representing rebuilt modernized coaches.  The changes between them are not large, the most visible one is usually the change of the doors from wooden panels to a steel design.  Both types were found in use until the end of the loco hauled coach era. 

 

I'm sure some of our Japanese members are much more knowledgeable, but I hope this was helpful.  In short, feel free to run a mix of whatever you like, unless you are trying to model a particular train at a certain point, it's likely to be fairly close.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Kiha66

[Christopher_R]

@Kiha66

 

Thanks 🙂. 

 

I was under the impression that the blue ones were for 'cold region or sleeper trains' 😁.

 

Thank you for the nice information, it was helpful indeed.

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is gonna be a fictional steam excursion train (all my other rolling stock is fairly  contemporary/modern) so was wondering as I think the blue coaches look nicer (also seen in videos of some steam excursion train in Japan with blue cars namely the series 1*).

 

Yet, like you said earlier, it's your railroad so run what makes you happy!

 

Thanks again 👍

 

[Kiha66]

I can see how you'd get confused, as "blue train" is the nickname for sleeper trains!   Railfans tend to split up coaches into two categories, "Old passenger car" of which the 3#, 4# and 6# are a part, and "new passenger car" which are cars from the 10 series onwards (10, 20, 50 and such).  

 

"Old passenger car" can also be called general passenger coaches, ie. coaches that are in general use and can be mixed and matched with other coaches of the general coach pool.  These usually have steam heat supplied by the locomotive, and if air conditioning is equipped (which is rare on these coaches) it is powered by a diesel generator under each coach.  These coaches could be painted any mix of blue and brown, depending on when and where the cars were built or repaired.  They were originally used on both local and long distance trains, but in later years were mostly found on more rural local services and the long distance duty got taken over by "new passenger car" types, which were more comfortable for the long journey.  They are much more nostalgic to many than the newer types, and they are usually what are used on SL heritage trains in japan.  Even trains which have gotten all new coaches recently like SL Yamaguchi have had the new coaches built to look like "old passenger car" styles! 

 

"New passenger car" are the blue sleeper trains you are thinking of, these were generally consists of cars that were made to only run with coaches of the same type.  They usually had electric heat and air conditioning, and each consist would require a generator car to power the set, rather than requiring power from the locomotive.  These coaches usually ran in fixed consists on the same route, and and most were painted all matching blue with white stripes.  As those regular long distance trains with matched consists were often sleeper trains, the term "blue train" came to be known as a shorthand for a sleeper train in japan.

 

When looking at coaches on Hobbysearch, they even have a tag for old passenger coaches, which makes it very easy to see what is available in model form!

You find it under "Oldtimer Coach"

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Kiha66

[Christopher_R]

@Kiha66

 

Wow, thank you for the explanation!

 

Very interesting and thanks for clearing the doubt about blue/sleeper trains.

 

I personally like the looks of the 3*/4*/6* series cars better than the other 1*/2*/5* series as they also remind me of the Romanian coaches found in my country in Sri Lanka.

 

So, will be purchasing some 3*/4*/6* series coaches soon hopefully for my fictional steam excursion train on my layout.....may have to toss a coin if to get blue or tea(brown) ones😁! Both look nice!

 

Thanks again my friend and best regards.

[disturbman]

12

On 11/2/2020 at 8:24 PM, Kiha66 said:

"New passenger car" are the blue sleeper trains you are thinking of, these were generally consists of cars that were made to only run with coaches of the same type.  They usually had electric heat and air conditioning, and each consist would require a generator car to power the set, rather than requiring power from the locomotive.  These coaches usually ran in fixed consists on the same route, and and most were painted all matching blue with white stripes.  As those regular long distance trains with matched consists were often sleeper trains, the term "blue train" came to be known as a shorthand for a sleeper train in japan.

Though, the 12系 is just a regular car, not a sleeper car.

[roadstar_na6]

14 minutes ago, disturbman said:

12系

There’re some non-sleeper 14(/15) Series cars as well I think

[Kiha66]

3 hours ago, disturbman said:

Though, the 12系 is just a regular car, not a sleeper car.

 

The 12 and 50 series fall unto the "new passenger car" category, as they must be run in a consist of other cars of the same series to provided the needed power for the set.  They can not be freely combined with other coaches due to this power requirement.  

 

"Blue train" as a term generally refers to just the overnight sleeper trains.  Many later non-sleeper series were also painted blue as you mention, but would not be called a blue train due to its meaning of just long distance named sleeper trains.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Kiha66