Dead Micro Ace A2858 Keihan 8000

[sandiway]

I've been having issues with a Keihan 8000 motor, pre-premium car edition. Sometimes it would not run at all (short circuit), sometimes after cleaning it would for a little while. Then the last straw was when I decide to install interior lighting. At the same time, I took the motor unit apart and got the motor running. Took me a while to learn how to do it successfully. Confirmed no shorts in the bogies. Suspected the flywheel was shorting against the copper strips due to the wear. Put some tape to isolate it. Put it back together, it runs! Thought I had solved the problem. Let it do loops, and it'd short circuit again after a while. Take it apart, put more tape on to prevent shorts. But in the end to no avail, the motor itself always shorted immediately. I disassembled the thing entirely and testing the motor by itself. It shorts immediately. Anyone know how I can order this chassis? Otherwise, I'm getting by by borrowing the Keihan 3000 motor unit temporarily (last pic).

Edited May 21, 2020 by sandiway

[railsquid]

2 hours ago, sandiway said:

I've been having issues with a Keihan 8000 motor, pre-premium car edition. Sometimes it would not run at all (short circuit), sometimes after cleaning it would for a little while. Then the last straw was when I decide to install interior lighting. At the same time, I took the motor unit apart and got the motor running. Took me a while to learn how to do it successfully. Confirmed no shorts in the bogies. Suspected the flywheel was shorting against the copper strips due to the wear. Put some tape to isolate it. Put it back together, it runs! Thought I had solved the problem. Let it do loops, and it'd short circuit again after a while. Take it apart, put more tape on to prevent shorts. But in the end to no avail, the motor itself always shorted immediately. I disassembled the thing entirely and testing the motor by itself. It shorts immediately. Anyone know how I can order this chassis? Otherwise, I'm getting by by borrowing the Keihan 3000 motor unit temporarily (last pic).

 

MicroAce don't really do parts, apart from a limited selection of generic bits (which are almost impossible to order from outside of Japan anyway).

 

Never come across this issue before myself; have you tried spraying compressed air inside the motor to dislodge any bits which might have gotten inside?

[disturbman]

There are some replacements motors available. Some time at HobbySearch or at Yahoo Japan Auctions. I don’t know if any fits your model, but the ones available are very generic.

 

The alternative is to source a cheap set or power car and cannibalize it.

[katoftw]

The ones on HS are for kiha 40s.

 

I would buy a used motor car from yahoo and part it out.

[Welshbloke]

One final thing to try, dunk the motor in warm soapy water and spin it by hand while in there. Then rinse with plain water and dry. Soap is a mild degreaser which may shift whatever is causing the shorts.

[Yavianice]

If you bought it new, send it back to the seller for repair. Because Micro Ace only repairs items when they have been bought new and sent back with a receipt.

[sandiway]

Not new. Yahoo! Auctions. A friend Got it for me 2nd hand.

[sandiway]

Tried compressed air. No change. Warm soapy water, turn, turn, turn, shake, shake, shake. Blew it out with compressed air. Letting it air dry now - I live in Southern Arizona, so it won't take long. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Edited May 21, 2020 by sandiway

[Welshbloke]

It's about all you can do with the sealed motors. At least Kato have snap-on brush caps so you can take the brushes and springs out to clean them (and get a bit of kitchen roll formed into a point and soaked in lighter fluid down the brush guides, to clean the commutator).

[cteno4]

These are perfect to clean in those tight little areas as they are pretty stiff but absorbent for cleaners. Also the tip is reversible so pull it out and flip it around and you get 2 for 1! I use them cleaning out tight places when I’m too lazy to do the full ultrasonic bath. Also work well for application of oil as you can just put down a film not a full drop.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CW-AU-50pcs-Disposable-Lip-Brush-Gloss-Eyeliner-Wands-Applicator-Makeup-Cosmet/324078521479?hash=item4b7495cc87:g:IQwAAOSw6HJci4Ro

 

cheers

 

jeff

[sandiway]

I had a Japan friend call Micro Ace. No A-2858 motor units are available for purchase.  E-000# units are not compatible. However, they accept repair requests.

 

[sandiway]

Welshbloke, I drink to your health! Other people on this forum too! Sincere thanks for all the help and for a great forum! It's back from the dead (for now). Your suggestion plus one other fix did it. It has survived 30 loops of the track without shorting. Previously, it'd either short immediately or short after a few laps. It may die later, but I'll just have to buy the new edition.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by sandiway

[sandiway]

I made a 1 minute video just in case other people want to see the insides. I must have disassembled and reassembled it over 10 times in two days. I am relieved I did not break or lose any of the tiny pieces. Fingers crossed! 

 

 

[cteno4]

Kanpai! Just having a cognac here! A toast to a running train. Glad it’s working! Amazing how good you get at stripping down a unit like this. 
 

jeff

[sandiway]

Well, after another 100 loops with a Sapporo beer, it died twice again. I can almost strip it down blindfolded. Once more resurrected with compressed air for a few more loops. I figure at this point, these are all bonus loops. After another death, I put the motor in the dishwasher. See if I have killed it tomorrow.

 

[inobu]

Carefully look at the tape for wear. Typically you want to use Kapton tape. It is a lot stronger.

Check your isolation.

 

Inobu 

[Welshbloke]

Don't use the dishwasher. Those tablets are very aggressive and will eat aluminium parts. I have an aluminium Kelly Kettle with a mark down the front after being advised to clean it before use by boiling water plus half a tablet (which bubbled over slightly).

 

Contact cleaner spray might work, it's a bit more aggressive than soapy water but if all else fails...

 

I'm wondering if there's a commutator segment sticking up slightly and chewing the brushes, I have an old Minitrix motor with that problem which growls and needs cleaning every other hour. Keeping an eye out for a good spare one but so far I'm just seeing models which are a bit too good to strip for parts.

[disturbman]

9 hours ago, Welshbloke said:

Keeping an eye out for a good spare one but so far I'm just seeing models which are a bit too good to strip for parts.

I know the issue. I had found a good donnor set for a train that had a dead motor. I snapped it for really cheap, and when I received it, I discovered the box had never even been opened. I haven't dared to take out the motor out of it.

Edited May 22, 2020 by disturbman

[sandiway]

The dishwasher may have been a desperate throw of the dice, but the reassembled motor unit hasn't shorted for two days now. Memories of Hanami at Yawata.

[Welshbloke]

Well, it worked! You might want to add a tiny drop of oil to the motor bearings if you didn't do that earlier, whatever was in there has almost certainly been flushed out.

[sandiway]

13 minutes ago, Welshbloke said:

Well, it worked! You might want to add a tiny drop of oil to the motor bearings if you didn't do that earlier, whatever was in there has almost certainly been flushed out.

I need to order something with a fine needle... any recommendations?

[Welshbloke]

I bought a plastic tube with a needle on top years ago, filled with some sort of light oil. I've seen similar with a few different brand names applied to them. I'm on my second as my first cracked after about a decade, when it empties I'll just refill it with 3-in-1 (the can I have now claims to be plastic safe, and it's the same colour and viscosity as the stuff which came in the tube). Try typing something like "model oil applicator" into eBay.

[sandiway]

3 minutes ago, Welshbloke said:

I bought a plastic tube with a needle on top years ago, filled with some sort of light oil. I've seen similar with a few different brand names applied to them.

ProTecta Needle Oiler 1/2 Ounce Bottle. Precision lubricating Oil applicator okay?

[Welshbloke]

Yep, that looks the same sort of thing. Assuming the oil is safe for plastics and fairly light weight (3-in-1 rather than 10W40) it should be fine.

[Martijn Meerts]

On 5/22/2020 at 6:20 AM, sandiway said:

Welshbloke, I drink to your health! Other people on this forum too! Sincere thanks for all the help and for a great forum! It's back from the dead (for now). Your suggestion plus one other fix did it. It has survived 30 loops of the track without shorting. Previously, it'd either short immediately or short after a few laps. It may die later, but I'll just have to buy the new edition.

 

 

Good choice on the whisky there 😄