Concrete Blocks (and other small industries)

[Cat]

Here's an even tinier little business, a propane dealer:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4021404,140.5270482,3a,60y,241.76h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjX0jfOYphUW_ela2CnKamw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Kabuto Models (a dormant forum member) has the 5kg propane tanks on Shapeways:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/ASBBBQC5Z/lpg-tanks-5kg-32pc-n-scale?optionId=57065360

 

**edit**

And with a little modification, this kit is perfect for the building itself:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10283980

Edited May 15, 2020 by Cat

[cteno4]

That worked, thanks! The first link gave me the pin drop for the station and no street view option for the pin, but I’m on the iPad right now and google maps is a little funkier for this stuff on mobile.

 

that is superb! Love the gantry crane! Going to take lots of snaps to record as I want to do that one! Excellent!

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Another nice one! 
 

yep I have a bunch of Toni’s cylinders, they are really nice and a common feature in japan all over the place.

 

jeff

[Cat]

That lovely gantry is bigger than the overhead crane that comes with one of the Tomytec City Factories.  For this, we ordered in a Faller Small Gantry Crane; this was the primary causa emptionis of our recent order with EuroRail:
https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?erh_find=F-222199&so=5&stock=F-222199

(edit, listed as out of stock at the moment, we must have got the last one, EuroRail will not be getting any restocks from Germany until DHL prices come back to the realm of sanity or other shipping options open up.)

There was also much squeeing of joy here when we found that on google maps: "Oh thank you, Iba Lucky, a tiny junkyard!"

Edited May 20, 2020 by Cat

[cteno4]

I have a few boxes of misc n scale building parts I have picked up at train shows for detail pieces and I think there is about 1.5 of one of those faller gantry cranes in them! I had thought to Frankenstein one, but instead I’ll do the half gantry out of some of it and have some parts left over.
 

again thanks, nice find!

 

wonder if they may go back to old palette shipments via container ship.

 

jeff

[Cat]

Since this has morphed into a small industries of modelling delight thread, here's the Onizawa Construction Company from out in the middle of nowhere Hitachinaka City:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3615276,140.5850736,3a,75y,185.23h,93.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7I5v6Yqx9UKPyZvUy9wFlQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Another job for Tomytec City Factory bits — it's very helpful that they make 3 different ones, and their overhead crane will do for this model.  We'll be upgrading them from general construction to Onizawa Swan-Boatmakers. 

 

A) Somebody has to make the swan boats for Lake Senba and elsewhere.
B) We have more swan boats than we can fit in Lake Senba.

C) Swan boats fit on crane trucks.

D) We really like building story-telling elements into the modelling.

 

The cement factory in Katsuta was originally going to be the swan boat company until we went back and took a closer look at the grounds and discovered that it was a modeller's paradise as-is.  So then we looked at the module sketches, saw that we still had available real estate out in the middle of Hitachinaka City, and went on a satellite recon mission for other places that looked city factory-ish and discovered Onizawa.

We'll also upgrade the cement factory with a Tomytec overhead crane too, so they can make the smallest sized tetrapods for the seashore, the half-ton ones.  At a half-ton, they'll need a crane to be able to open the moulds after the concrete has set.  And this will also give a nice story-telling roll for a crane truck on the road for a tetrapod delivery. 
https://www.shapeways.com/product/K723XZV6X/n-scale-10x-tetrapod?optionId=62900231

[marknewton]

That shrine's very modelgenic as well. Thanks Cat!

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[cteno4]

9 hours ago, Cat said:

Since this has morphed into a small industries of modelling delight thread, here's the Onizawa Construction Company from out in the middle of nowhere Hitachinaka City:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3615276,140.5850736,3a,75y,185.23h,93.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7I5v6Yqx9UKPyZvUy9wFlQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Nice little road to go down!

 

if you need tetrapods greenmax and Tomytec make them
 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10447988

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10235798
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10169336

great truck fodder! And if you get a bit of seashore you could have them craned into place scene!

 

but a wave break factory sounds good. Will need to make some negative moulds and a few cement trucks! Stories like that are wonderful for scenes, engages the mind’s eye and imagination and folks will end up seeing way more there than you modeled.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Cat]

Yes, we will have some stretches of seashore which are bolstered with tetrapods.

We are quite wealthy in the giant tetrapods.  GreenMax includes them in a bridge kit that we got duplicates of to lengthen, and Tomytec includes them in their various port kits of which we have a variety.  They get up to 50 tons, and the bigger GreenMax and Tomytec might be that class.  Our little cement factory couldn't handle that size, so we'll get the tiny half-tonners from Shapeways for them.

The crane trucks would probably pop a permanent wheelie if loaded with a 50-tonner!
 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Cat

[ranger10178]

2 hours ago, Cat said:

 

 

Nice little video!

[Cat]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:48 PM, maihama eki said:

This was interesting to me as well, so I created a design in TinkerCAD and will have it printed when I do my next order with Shapeways.  These are very tiny, but they pass the initial design checks on Shapeways, so they have a good chance of working.  I won't know for sure until I actually order it.

 

This is the largest size block on bill937ca's Sasaki Block web page - 19 x 39 x 19 cm in real life.  In N-Scale (1:150) this is ~1.3 x 2.6 x 1.3 mm.  There are 20 blocks attached to a sprue tree.

 

 

 

Maihama eki, I'll be ordering from Shapeways pretty shortly and would be willing to give these a test run if you're not doing them soon yourself.  Worst case scenario, piles of broken cinder blocks are authentic details too...

I just heard from Ngineer who did up pallet loads of blocks.  He's not sure how much of the super fine detail will come out in Shapeways printing, but I'll be giving them a try:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/2W7AY738M/n-1-150-cinder-block-pallets-10pc

I also just asked him if he would be willing to make the mould parts that would fit his small tetrapods.  Having the mould pieces stacked at the factory and/or in use would be ace.

 

 

[Cat]

Wow that was quick, Ngineer has the tetrapod forms up already:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/HKZ2WZ5JK/n-tetrapod-forms-4x4pcs

Shapeways has changed their price structure and the startup costs are up considerably.  Erik did increase the number of tetrapods per set up to 30 at the same cost as before:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/K723XZV6X/n-scale-30x-tetrapod?optionId=62900231

We'll wait til the last week of May and the start of our next fiscal hobby month to place our order.  Going through Kabuto Models shop is adding up the price tag...

Edited May 16, 2020 by Cat

[cteno4]

Wow nice! I was just thinking of adding putty to make forms all together but this lets the whole process be shown easily! ugh there are always some bits at ngineer I also want so a shapeways order may be in the offing! Thanks for putting the project to him!

 

lol you can drop bucks at Toni’s as well! Always need more propane tanks and cases of empties to stack around! Maybe make a propane delivery truck and installation scene, makes a nice story about how tanks are used a lot for cooling instead of gas mains in heavy earthquake area.

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Wonder how those cinder blocks would print on the resin printer. Some slicing programs give all sorts of warnings when a model is too small, but the whole point of a resin 3d printer is to get very good detail on small objects 🙂

 

I'm getting the hang of Blender right now to start modelling some things I need for testing purposes, so might see if I can add some single cinder blocks as well as a stack of them. Don't expect anything too soon though, been quite a few years since I did any sort of 3d modelling, and I've never used Blender before beyond having a quick look at it.

 

[cteno4]

It’s all about those cross supports the. Even for the little stuff. Toni learned a lot there and went thru like 3 rounds of evolution of supports on small bits to make them print better. His flower pots did well and those are smaller than most of the cinder blocks.

 

jeff

[Cat]

Meditating on operations at Katsuta's Tezuka Cement Products Factory, my guess is that they have a mixing machine in the tall building that feeds into the silo which is seen in this streetview:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3890245,140.5230007,3a,60y,252.31h,99.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFKPcOQdQSmHeFDORknmg1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

The presumption then is that they would get deliveries of powder to feed the process.

 

Bandai Working Vehicle Vol.6 includes mixer trucks and powder trucks.  After some sleuthing, discovered that set includes a Hitachi Cement mixer truck which we will hunt down for a nice local company to prowl our roads.  Alas, they do not include a Hitachi Cement powder truck to supply the factory; poking at the companies they do include it looks like either Taiheyo or Ube Mitsubishi would work since they are large companies headquartered in nearby Tokyo.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ワーキングビークル#Vol.6_〜セメント事業者編〜

 

**edit**
Taiheyo wins the contract to supply powder cement to Tezuka, just found that they have a sales office in Mito.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Cat

[Madsing]

This page from Shapeways specifies what can be printed with fine detail plastic: https://www.shapeways.com/materials/fine-detail-plastic

- Min Supported Wall Thickness: 0.3 mm

- Min Unsupported Wall Thickness: 0.6 mm

There seems to be many other minimum sizes to check. 0.6mm translates to 90mm = 9cm in n-gauge, this is not small!

[inobu]

2 hours ago, Madsing said:

This page from Shapeways specifies what can be printed with fine detail plastic: https://www.shapeways.com/materials/fine-detail-plastic

- Min Supported Wall Thickness: 0.3 mm

- Min Unsupported Wall Thickness: 0.6 mm

There seems to be many other minimum sizes to check. 0.6mm translates to 90mm = 9cm in n-gauge, this is not small!

That is why I was saying that it need to be done by sight. It has to be made visually and structurally equal. 

 

Inobu

[Cat]

There are many balances and choices to be weighed.  Such a common item as a cinder block needs to pretty much be in overall scale compared to people figures, give or take a very wee bit.  The thickness of walls has more flexibility, they will still look very delicate at that size, plus the shape and size of the openings does have a lot of variation in style.  For my tastes, getting the closest approximation of the outer dimensions is the more important visual element.

Ngineer mentioned in our correspondence that the tetrapod mould forms look thick, but they are the thinnest possible for Shapeways.  I'm good with that; they will still be a stunning detail.

On the plus side, in N gauge, all small items will look super finely scaled when the flanged wheels of the trains roll by!
: 3

[Martijn Meerts]

Resin printers can get you a lot more detail and thinner walls to a certain point then filament 3d printers. A resin printer with a 2k resolution LCD screen for example (most of the cheaper ones have this, Anycubic Photon, Nova3D Elfin, Elegoo Mars, etc) has an X/Y resolution of around 0.05mm and a Z resolution of 0.01mm. There are also resin printers with a 4k screen, which obviously increases the X/Y resolution quite a bit, but price goes up astronomically too 😄

 

The thickness of walls on resin printers also depends on the model itself. Very short sections of thin walls should be very much doable. I'm not too familiar yet with my printer, I've only printed the test model that came with the printer. I'll be doing some tests once I have some models done though, I need some H0 scale fishplates for example, and I'm looking into printing some axle bearings for the WaFu22000 I'm working on to replace the white metal ones, mainly so I can add some power pickups more easily.

 

[Martijn Meerts]

It's a start 🙂

 

They're so small, the slicing program doesn't know where to put supports. I could print them straight onto the bed, but getting them off would be pretty fragile, so I'll have to model in some supports right inside Blender.

 

[inobu]

Guys,

 

With the PC screen skewing your perception and your minds recreating the visual you lose your reference.   

From the layout perspective when we are standing we are viewing the layout from arms distance.

That is 3 feet real life 480' scale. So the cinder blocks holes are barely visible.

Its your mental perception of the block that is feeding the imagery. In actuality you cannot see the holes in the blocks. You

see shadows but your mind tells you its a hole.

 

So building the blocks you just have to create indents which creates the shadows.

 

It is largely based on what the eye accepts. The eye accepts that this is a block wall because there is

no reference.

This layout is O Scale. 1/48. 1 foot is 1/4".  Look at the Engineer as a reference, those blocks are 2' tall 3' long.

 

 

So, its really about fooling the eye more so getting the dimensions exact.

 

It's better to create one 9'x9' area with scattered blocks than individual blocks for a 9'x9' area.

 

Inobu

[Martijn Meerts]

With resin printers it doesn't matter if they're actual holes or just indentations to simulate the holes. Without the holes it'd likely be a bit sturdier, but that's about it. Of course, with the hole you use less resin, and resin is expensive.

 

I'm doing this also partially as a test for myself and the printer, I'll just add a few of these blocks when I run a test print of some fishplates. Considering the blocks took hardly any time to model, it's really not a waste of time. I'll need more small bits for my H0 project, so these cinder blocks are a good way to also test with placement of supports both in Blender and in the slicing software. I'm well aware the detail will be lost when viewing from a normal viewing distance, but on the other hand, well detailed / interesting areas on a layout usually draw attention and closer inspections from viewers.

 

It's also a personal thing, for example, adding passengers to coaches, especially in a shinkansen, is something pretty much no one looking at the layout will notice at a glance. However, if you know they're there, you start looking out for them. Of course, these blocks are far smaller than passengers, so there's that. There's a lot of things that don't work in scale though, and people still do it. Sound, light, smoke etc. scale terribly, but they're all still pretty common. Also, a lot of people hand lay track, using actual wooden sleepers, tie plates and spikes. From a distance, none of that is obvious, but up close it certainly is.

 

In the end, I think it very much depends on the modeller. Some are content just running trains, others want super-detailing, and there's plenty room in between. Some also change their interest over the years in the hobby from for example running as many trains as possible, to focusing on realism. I think it's just great that the tools are available to do the things that modellers want to do. There's no wrong way to do things in this hobby, as long as you enjoy doing it.

 

[cteno4]

I agree with inobu that this detail will only be seen really up close and can easily be done without holes and with just dots of darker color to trick the mind’s eye into filling in the details.

 

But Martijn is correct, many times fun, detailed scenes, especially the story kind Cat is interested in, really draw the viewer in for close looks if they can and at times them seeing the tiny holes up close make them go oooohhhh and can also make a deep impression. Also doing close in photography tends to pull the veil off the tricks of using the mind’s eye and then requires going for more realistic.

 

but then there is the consistency factor with details. You always get a grade up in the viewer’s mind if you are consist in the level and/or quality of detail. When the detail level and/or quality are inconsistent then you actually get graded down even if a few bits are great. We run into this all the time in exhibit work with artifacts, graphics, casework, etc. it’s a constant juggle to get everything to a nice consistent level working well with each other or it just looks off in the end. This is a struggle with the budget and time as well as the client who at times will get uber focused on one aspect of the project to the detriment of everything else.

 

always tradeoffs and it’s all in what you enjoy and want to do!

 

while I love to play with the mind’s eye and get more in the memory than what was actually there. I was intrigued to see if I could actually make a cement brick by hand and how it might look! I’m interested to see how the resin print ones work out!
 

jeff

[Cat]

On our layout, the cement factory will be right up at the front edge of the module, in front of the tracks, a spot for very close scrutiny by observers, as well as our own enjoyment.  For the subtle story-telling, when folks spot individual blocks scattered in other locations around town (as cinder blocks are want to do), it should trigger a 'wait, is that...' response and then close scrutiny.