Gavino's module build

[gavino200]

I'm going to attempt my first layout module build. My woodworking skills are extremely basic, so I'll be learning everything as I go. This will be the first module in a new layout. But I'm going to focus solely on this module for now. If it doesn't turn out well I may even start over again and repeat until it's acceptable, and I'm not in a hurry. 

 

The module will probably be approx 2 x 4 feet. These are the things I'm hoping to achieve with it. 

 

Fairly solid frame with a top that has decent noise absorbing properties. 

Fairly easy to connect securely with adjacent modules.

Standard wiring and quick bus connectors.

 

For methods of support I have three possibilities in mind. 

a) Four legs possibly removable

b) Two legs on front and fixed to the wall behind by something like a picture hook.

c) Rest on furniture on front and have either legs or a hook support on back.

 

Perhaps the module could be designed so it has the ability to be supported in any of these ways.

 

[gavino200]

The post is a place holder for now. I'm going to add information as I learn and collect information.

 

Materials

 

Instruction videos

 

Instruction sites. 

 

[gavino200]

I'm thinking about using the simplest possible method of table leg attachment. It's depicted pretty much on this etsy picture. 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/417990409141736831/

 

1. I'll use a deeper piece of wood for the frame. Probably inches (15cm). That should add stability. It will be hidden by the fascia anyway.

2. Four bolts, two pairs of two 90 degrees off from each other. Each bolt going through the leg and the outside frame. Wingnuts on the inside maybe. I would inset the bolts on the outside frame. 

3. I'll probably leave out the inner cross strut to allow access to the bolts. I may make a shallow "socket for the leg to help getting with placement. 

 

tablelegs.com seems like a good source for table legs. I was thinking of 2.5 inch or 3 inch simple square legs. 

 

I have zero experience with this. Can anyone see any problems with this method? Or suggest any modifications?

 

A problem I can see is how to get the holes for the bolts complete square. I don't have a drill press. I was thinking of clamping the legs in place within the frame and drilling the holes in place. 

 

 

[chadbag]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

A problem I can see is how to get the holes for the bolts complete square. I don't have a drill press. I was thinking of clamping the legs in place within the frame and drilling the holes in place. 

 

All good projects are excuses to buy new tools.

 

[cteno4]

Yep that works! I made a scad of 4’x8’ tables like that with 1/2” ply top, 2x6 frame and 4x4 legs that were about 40” high. You could dance on them!

 

yes all you would need to do is clamp the leg in the corner and drill your hole and insert you bolt and go! You don’t have to be perfectly square as drilled in place there they are perfectly lined up and can only be in one place! Use carafe bolts as the square shank will bite in and you don’t need a full bolt head on the outside, nuts rounded cap head.

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-1-4-in-x-2-in-Zinc-Plated-Coarse-Thread-Carriage-Bolt/3058611

 

for legs I would just go with clear 2x2 fir, usually comes with nicely rounded edges and should be much cheaper. Put a threaded inert in the bottom and you can use a bolt or threaded inert if you need leveling (depending on how level your floor is) w,o having to shim.

 

might also look at these, cheaper than the tableleg.com option, just put a 6” pieces of ply across the end of your fame on the bottom and screw the plates onto it

 

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/olov-leg-adjustable-black-30264301/

 

This is how we did Renato’s base frames his modules sit on. Making larger support frames made it a lot more flexible to have the thinner, lighter modules drop on top as needed and recessed leg/support frame looks visually nice with the thinner modules floating on top.

 

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/12208-what-did-you-do-on-your-layout-today-n-scale/?do=findComment&comment=156289

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/12208-what-did-you-do-on-your-layout-today-n-scale/?do=findComment&comment=156308

pjeff

[cteno4]

4 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

All good projects are excuses to buy new tools.

 

actually a drill press would not work well for this to get perfect alignment. It would take a lot of careful jigging to get it perfect. Building the frame and clamping the legs in place in place and hand drilling will give you, but you are spot on a small drill press is really a very handy tool to have and I’ve been nudging gavin that way for a long time!

 

but these are useful in these circumstances where you want to get good perpendicular holes with a hand drill. I have one I end up using every few months!

 

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/milescraft-accudrillmate-1318-drill-guide
 

to work on corners like this you have to bolt on a flat piece of ply on the bottom, but you can then put a block on that so you drill all your holes easily a fixed distance from the edges! 
 

yes more tools!

 

jeff

[gavino200]

I bought and prepped the lumber today. I made a few rookie discoveries, fortunately at no cost. 

 

1. Lumber yard workers are not cabinet makers. I won't expect usable cuts from them in future. I was shocked that the cuts weren't at right angles. Fortunately the cuts all strayed away from their mark so I was able to use the pieces after correcting them. This is probably their convention. In future I'll just get longer pieces and cut them myself.

 

2. Delighted to find that I can make accurate cuts easily with a miter saw. I thought I would be able to but I wasn't sure. Sand paper makes perfect. 

 

3. Don't trust the Lumbar guys pick. There are a few pieces of wood that I wouldn't have picked. Next time I'll be more careful. 

 

4. Don't by a giant rectangle of plywood without first measuring the trunk of your car. I had to get the 6'x4' plywood piece cut in two, to get it to fit. 

 

5. Unfortunately 3x3's are not commonly stocked. I'm going to call around tomorrow to find some. I may have to travel to get some. But 2x2 is very spindly, and 4x4 is too big. I could use 4x4 if I can't get 3x3 but I'd prefer not to. If I find some I'll get enough for a bunch of table legs. 

 

On a hunch I bought a wide clamp vise grip. It came in handy as the 1x6 was too wide for the miter saw clamps. I also got this corner clamp that I hope will allow me to assemble this thing without asking my wife to hold it for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Yep, they are rarely much better than bigbox on their cutting abilities. Usually it’s just to whack down longer stuff when needed for transport so they figure you will be squaring it up later and may not sit the wood in well to cut square and probably never check to see if the radial arm is square both ways! I always just have them cut w.in 1/2-1” if I have them trim stuff down for transport.

 

LOL yes that my usual fiddle of knowing the size of the Prius V trunk for ply! Won’t matter if cut it was cut in two there.

 

yep the miter box will give nice cuts, don’t force it let the saw do the work. Clamped in well it will give good square, clean cuts. Just some time and energy, good upper body work out! Sanding block is a good way to keep it square while sanding.

jeff

 

[Grant_T]

Nice start. I love the woodworking phase of layout building. 🙂

[cteno4]

Gavin,

 

Here’s a little trick for doing butt corner joints I use. I have at least 6 different kinds of corner clamps and none are as fast and easy as this. They all can be a bit fiddly to get just right and also hard to use in top and using on the bottom requires blocking up your two pieces to the right height.

 

I just clamp a nice square 2x4 (you can get a hunk of this very clear and milled flat at the big box stores and hack it up into a few different sized pieces for use in doing joints like this and other jigs, handy to have some very flat, square and true blocks around) up against her edge of the workbench sd at a right angle to the face of the workbench (use a larger square to do this) the  put one piece of your stock against the block and place the other along the edge of the workbench with its end flush up against block. Then slide the piece along the block so you have your butt joint tight at the edge of the bench and clamp the piece along the block to the block. Now you can easily hold the piece along the front of the workbench flush into its butt joint to the clamped piece along the block and drill and screw or brad nail in place! Very easy peazy. When I’ve had little projects that require a lot of these I actually just screw some blocks onto a piece of ply to clamp to.

 

here’s a very fast mock up of it. It’s the left handed version as the right side of the saw had something clamped to it! 

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gavino200]

I assembled the main frame today. I took it nice and slow and it went well. There's no place where I can buy 3x3 lumber, but I spoke to a cabinet maker who will cut down 4x4. Most places were closed today so I wasn't able to shop around. The price isn't super low $25 per leg. Better than tablelegs.com but not by a ton. Since I may be getting a lot of these I'll shop around before committing. He first wanted to glue thin pieces together to make a laminate. I'm not keen on that as I want to put heavy bolts through it 90 degrees from each other. I don't want it to split. He agreed to cut down a 4x4 though. It's going to take at least a week so for now I'll give some thought to modular wiring.

 

Outside frame. The corner clamp came in handy here. It held one corner approximately in place while I connected the other corner. Didn't need to bother my wife. 

 

 

The completed frame.

 

 

With the plywood sitting on top. The top isn't fixed in place. I think it's going to be easier to attach the legs with the top off. I'm thinking of setting the whole thing up with the legs secured by clamps. Then after checking everything is level and square I'll drill and bold while in position. Then add the top. 

 

[gavino200]

6 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Gavin,

 

Here’s a little trick for doing butt corner joints I use. I have at least 6 different kinds of corner clamps and none are as fast and easy as this. They all can be a bit fiddly to get just right and also hard to use in top and using on the bottom requires blocking up your two pieces to the right height.

 

I just clamp a nice square 2x4 (you can get a hunk of this very clear and milled flat at the big box stores and hack it up into a few different sized pieces for use in doing joints like this and other jigs, handy to have some very flat, square and true blocks around) up against her edge of the workbench sd at a right angle to the face of the workbench (use a larger square to do this) the  put one piece of your stock against the block and place the other along the edge of the workbench with its end flush up against block. Then slide the piece along the block so you have your butt joint tight at the edge of the bench and clamp the piece along the block to the block. Now you can easily hold the piece along the front of the workbench flush into its butt joint to the clamped piece along the block and drill and screw or brad nail in place! Very easy peazy. When I’ve had little projects that require a lot of these I actually just screw some blocks onto a piece of ply to clamp to.

 

here’s a very fast mock up of it. It’s the left handed version as the right side of the saw had something clamped to it! 

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

 

 

That's a great trick. I'll use it in the future. 

[gavino200]

2 hours ago, Grant_T said:

Nice start. I love the woodworking phase of layout building. 🙂

 

Thanks. I've never done it before. I was a bit nervous about it, but I'm enjoying it so far. Quite a lot. 

[cteno4]

It’s all about just getting to it and learning as you go along! Looks great!

 

if the frame is sitting flat on the floor (ie no twist to it) the I would just attach the top and put your legs on upside down. Should be perfect if your legs are all cut properly to the right length. Trying to clamp it all up standing up will be a chore and hard to make sure really level. If legs are all the same length and the module is flat then it will all be good! You may find inevitable tiny dips in the floor or later torsion occur on the frame that may need a few slips of cardstock under a leg here or there to level up perfectly. It’s heavy enough to hopefully settle out with a little time.

 

yikes! $25 each?! It will take all of 2 minutes to make the two milling cuts and 2 or 3 minutes to toss it thru the planer to smooth off all 4 sides! 2 more minutes to run the edge trimmer to round the edges with a small radius. A minute to trim to length. Like 8 minutes per leg so he’s like $200/hr.! or was he planning on making table leg taper cuts? That would take some time, but once the taper jig is set only like another 5min per leg and a tad more time using a joiner rather than a planer to smooth the sides.
 

Laminating would work for as with decent resin glue they will never split at the seams, but a lot more work to laminate up and mill down and would be way more work than cutting 4x4s down. Getting really straight and fairly knot free 4x4 even in fur can be expensive. One issue with 4x4 is that they are thick and sometimes still pretty wet these days when you buy them and as they dry out they can twist. Also if a little wet when you cut them the can twist on you or even bow. If the price is close I bet the hardwood legs are nice and true and all exactly the same length and probably a good quality hardwood.

 

too bad you don’t live around here, we could cut this out and pay me a six pack.

 

Jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

It’s all about just getting to it and learning as you go along! Looks great!

 

Thanks. Couldn't have gotten that far without the advice and knowledge of you and others here!

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

if the frame is sitting flat on the floor (ie no twist to it) the I would just attach the top and put your legs on upside down. Should be perfect if your legs are all cut properly to the right length. Trying to clamp it all up standing up will be a chore and hard to make sure really level. If legs are all the same length and the module is flat then it will all be good! You may find inevitable tiny dips in the floor or later torsion occur on the frame that may need a few slips of cardstock under a leg here or there to level up perfectly. It’s heavy enough to hopefully settle out with a little time.

 

I was thinking that I could make small adjustments with cardstock between the legs and the frame If there were wobbles. I'd put the frame on one of the old layout tables, add the legs, and then place it on the floor. I'd check with a level, some plane old eyeballing, and just applying a little manual stress to see if it wobbles. It's a modular process. If it doesn't work, I can try something different on the next. 

 

Another thought: I have two old layout pieces that don't have legs. They were bridging pieces. I may get four extra legs and experiment by adding legs to one of those. I'd like to give them legs anyway. 

 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

yikes! $25 each?! It will take all of 2 minutes to make the two milling cuts and 2 or 3 minutes to toss it thru the planer to smooth off all 4 sides! 2 more minutes to run the edge trimmer to round the edges with a small radius. A minute to trim to length. Like 8 minutes per leg so he’s like $200/hr.! or was he planning on making table leg taper cuts? That would take some time, but once the taper jig is set only like another 5min per leg and a tad more time using a joiner rather than a planer to smooth the sides.

 

I agree. I think that's too expensive for very little work. I wasn't a big fan of the guy anyway, and he's not super close. He was the only cabinet maker who called be back on the holiday weekend. That in itself may not be a great sign. I was pretty clear I was just talking about a straight square leg. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

Laminating would work for as with decent resin glue they will never split at the seams, but a lot more work to laminate up and mill down and would be way more work than cutting 4x4s down. Getting really straight and fairly knot free 4x4 even in fur can be expensive. One issue with 4x4 is that they are thick and sometimes still pretty wet these days when you buy them and as they dry out they can twist. Also if a little wet when you cut them the can twist on you or even bow. If the price is close I bet the hardwood legs are nice and true and all exactly the same length and probably a good quality hardwood.

 

He didn't seem to think it would be a problem. Just didn't have any 4x4 in stock and said he'd have to look in the lumber yard. I also said that I'd expect it to be cheaper to cut down a 4x4, than to glue up some smaller pieces.  He said he'd get back to be. I wouldn't be surprised if I don't hear from him. 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

too bad you don’t live around here, we could cut this out and pay me a six pack.

 

 

You'd soon get annoyed when I returned for the tenth time with a six pack in hand and an arm-full of lumber. 

[cteno4]

Yep just doing is most of the learning! May have a few goofs but that sometimes teaches the best (as long as no blood is involved...)! 
 

I think you are overthinking the whole leg attachment. If the frame sits flat  on the floor as is then your best way to get it all perfect is to just apply the plywood and set the legs with the module upside down on the floor and the top ends of the legs fitted flush against your ply top. This will give you a consistent setting of the legs. It will also let you securely clamp it and work on it in place better than upright where leg stresses could wiggle it some while drilling. you can lift the whole thing off the floor with a block or 2x4 at each corner to make your drilling easier
 

Don’t try to set the legs to the actual place on the floor it will be to adjust for a bit of floor deflection there as you’ll never get it perfect and it a world of hurt to try to customize it all. I expect with a floated concrete floor you won’t have more than some very tiny differences there and just weight sag will probably get you a mm or two and if needed just do some little shim as needed in place. If the floor is really bad then adjustable feet are the way to go. Your new flooring will also help even out any little dips and such (assume a floating flooring with a thin cork pad under it, really does well on top of concrete).

 

once you have your modules in place and leveled with any shims (if needed) you can then just put a couple of small bolts thru the ends of the modules to lock them together. Then any tiny difference left on the module tops you can shim the tracks to be perfect. Even good plywood’s these days will have some thickness variance. Could just take a belt sander and stand the tops level to take out any little interface imperfections. Little 3” belt sander is really handy to clean up the all the frame and play wood edges. It’s a safe power tool worst you can get is a hamburger, but I’ve never done that! Probably something you can pick up cheap here on sale. Also watch Craig’s list.
 

https://smile.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-DS321-Dragster-21-Inch/dp/B0002ZU73I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Belt+sander&qid=1606680325&sr=8-2

 

might look around more for premade legs. There may be some round out there with the screw in plate you could attack to cross pieces to the underside of the frame. Would inset the legs a bit to keep your toes from catching them, with your tall frame you would then need shorter legs. There may be steel tube legs out there cheaper. Also are you going to just live with the bolt heads sticking out? Even rounded carriage bolts stick out like 1\4”. You can counter sink them by drilling larger head holes part way. Shouldn’t reduce strength too much. You could probably get away with 3 good deck screws from each side as full bolts from each side is getting into overkill on these, it will work great but doesn’t need that. Could drop down to 3/16”  then cover it with a thin fascia board that you can contour the top of to scenery. 

 

nope, always fun doing this stuff with others, especially with those  wanting to learn! Hey free beer?! This kid of work is really easy to do and I’ve done tons of it. That’s why I’m surprised the cabinet guy was so high as in a production shop you could just whack that out in no time! Many times shops like that have an open afternoon and little fill in jobs just make some extra money easy. My shop area is not all that big so it’s more of taking time to move stuff around and set stuff up for larger cutout jobs. Just helped a friend make a lovely butcher block high kitchen table for his micro apartment in dc and we had a blast! That’ll probably cost him a sushi dinner! Last job with him on his house was a complex wooden banister handrail (luckily an architectural metal worker friend was able to make all the base rails and supports beautifully) that had a scad of tiny piece needing joining at different angles. He was selling the house and we realized the banister had to be just perfect as literally was the first interior detail you saw when you opened the front door! Came out stunning, really felt nice in your hand and it was simple and clean so didn’t catch the eye completely — I claim it got him a premium price!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

I think you are overthinking the whole leg attachment. If the frame sits flat  on the floor as is then your best way to get it all perfect is to just apply the plywood and set the legs with the module upside down on the floor and the top ends of the legs fitted flush against your ply top. This will give you a consistent setting of the legs.

 

 

I agree in theory. But in practice small differences become important. One degree translates to about a centimeter at the end of the leg. bolting on the legs with the assembled frame upside down was my first thought. But I it turns out to be inaccurate it would be extremely difficult to fix without throwing out the legs. 

 

Quote

 

It will also let you securely clamp it and work on it in place better than upright where leg stresses could wiggle it some while drilling. you can lift the whole thing off the floor with a block or 2x4 at each corner to make your drilling easier

 

The frame without the plywood isn't all that heavy. It should clamp securely. 

 

Quote

Don’t try to set the legs to the actual place on the floor it will be to adjust for a bit of floor deflection there as you’ll never get it perfect and it a world of hurt to try to customize it all. I expect with a floated concrete floor you won’t have more than some very tiny differences there and just weight sag will probably get you a mm or two and if needed just do some little shim as needed in place. If the floor is really bad then adjustable feet are the way to go. Your new flooring will also help even out any little dips and such (assume a floating flooring with a thin cork pad under it, really does well on top of concrete).

 

A very good point. I don't expect perfection. I'm expecting a percentage of what I aim for. That's why I'm trying to control as many variables as possible. The floor is pretty level. If the floor inconsistencies are the biggest imperfection I'd be very happy. I fully expect to be using some shims for adjustment. 

 

 

Quote

 

once you have your modules in place and leveled with any shims (if needed) you can then just put a couple of small bolts thru the ends of the modules to lock them together. Then any tiny difference left on the module tops you can shim the tracks to be perfect. Even good plywood’s these days will have some thickness variance. Could just take a belt sander and stand the tops level to take out any little interface imperfections. Little 3” belt sander is really handy to clean up the all the frame and play wood edges. It’s a safe power tool worst you can get is a hamburger, but I’ve never done that! Probably something you can pick up cheap here on sale. Also watch Craig’s list.
 

https://smile.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-DS321-Dragster-21-Inch/dp/B0002ZU73I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Belt+sander&qid=1606680325&sr=8-2

 

That looks nice. I have a circular sander, which does a decent job of levelling if watched carefully. 

 

 

Quote

 

might look around more for premade legs. There may be some round out there with the screw in plate you could attack to cross pieces to the underside of the frame. Would inset the legs a bit to keep your toes from catching them, with your tall frame you would then need shorter legs. There may be steel tube legs out there cheaper. Also are you going to just live with the bolt heads sticking out? Even rounded carriage bolts stick out like 1\4”. You can counter sink them by drilling larger head holes part way. Shouldn’t reduce strength too much. You could probably get away with 3 good deck screws from each side as full bolts from each side is getting into overkill on these, it will work great but doesn’t need that. Could drop down to 3/16”  then cover it with a thin fascia board that you can contour the top of to scenery. 

 

I don't like those tube legs. Just the aesthetic. 

 

I'm not gong to pay this guy 20 bucks to cut down some 4x4. I'm sure he was a sheister. I used to have a local cabinet maker make cuts for me. He charged me almost nothing. Also, I should probably just buy some 4x4 and look for someone to make the cuts. That would simplify the price talks. "How much to cut this wood down to 3x3?". Eventually, I'll find someone to do this for a decent price. It's worth waiting for as I'll be using a lot of these things. 

 

Not leaving the bolts sticking out.That would interfere with the modules fitting together. I bought a set of countersinking bits. 

 

Yes, there's going to be a fascia. So this part of the table won't be visible. I'll add it later after the ground level/land scaping has been done. In the meantime I'm going to paint the frame. 

 

I was thinking for two bolts from each side. If the legs don't stand straight I can made slight angle differences by differentially placing this shims between the frame and the legs at the level of one but not the other bolt. 

 

I'm not super worried about the legs being close to the front. I want to keep this module as simple as possible. But I'm realizing now that but by adjusing the framework I can pretty easily put the legs wherever I want. I'll probably experiment as I go based on my experience using it. 

 

 

Quote

 

nope, always fun doing this stuff with others, especially with those  wanting to learn! Hey free beer?! This kid of work is really easy to do and I’ve done tons of it. 

 

 

There are probably a couple of people I could ask. But I prefer to be independent and not have to work around other people's schedules. Also, I'm going to be working on this project for quite a while. I think it's bordering on an imposition. Someday I'll come down there with a six pack and no lumber just to shoot the breeze though.  

Edited November 29, 2020 by gavino200

[gavino200]

Actually, on thinking about this and looking at the photo again, I should be able to control the verticality of the legs quite precisely in the upside down position using a very large right angle ruler. That option is becoming tempting. 

[Kiha66]

Woah, these modules look incredibly professional!  I may need to kidnap you when I build my next layout!  😁

Edited November 29, 2020 by Kiha66

[inobu]

Keep track of your cost. Do you know whats its cost so far?

 

I'm interested in knowing what the average guy is going to spend after it is all said and done.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

[gavino200]

29 minutes ago, inobu said:

Keep track of your cost. Do you know whats its cost so far?

 

I'm interested in knowing what the average guy is going to spend after it is all said and done.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, I'll let you know. 

[gavino200]

I was thinking about the module further while tidying up downstairs. Applying the legs with the top frame upside down will allow me to apply bus wiring to the frame while waiting for the legs to be cut. I think I'm sold on the upside down approach. 

[cteno4]

As long as you made the fame flat it should be fine. I built about a dozen 4’x8’ tables like this using 2x6 frame and 4x4 legs and then 3 carriage bolts (one in the short side  and two in the long side of each corner) for the 3/4” scale exhibit model of the whole Monterey bay aquarium. I just had a hand power drill and circular saw! None needed shimming...

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Speaking of costs I was sort of shocked a couple of weeks back when I walked down the dimensional lumber isle at homedespot! Yikes it seemed like it was twice the price I had in my head! Nother reason I love ripping my own dimensional lumber from good cabinet grade 3/4” birch and 1/2” Baltic birch! Going to have to do a price comparison here again.

 

clear stuff is really getting pricy. At times on the way out of home despot I walk down the lumber isle I’ll take a glance to see if any especially clear and straight pieces of the premium clear pieces to grab to have for making jigs and other things that require a really clean piece of wood. Yikes those are really expensive now! Sadly our local lumber yards stock little of the premium grade soft woods.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

That looks nice. I have a circular sander, which does a decent job of levelling if watched carefully. 

little orbitsl sander is good for finish work, but won’t cut well and flat over a larger area or take off a little like 1/16” lip of ply sticking out. Belt sander eats it right off. Have to be gentle as you can rip into stuff, but it’s the tool of you find you need to flatten stuff out anywhere. It will flush up any little lips on your frame as well. 
 

jeff