Oldest active trains in Japan -2020

[bill937ca]

How old are the oldest active trains in Japan?  

 

Kintetsu 16000

 

The limited express 2- car trains on the Kintetsu narrow gauge Minami-Osaka Line date back to the 1970s, although the design dates back to  1965. These 16000 trains remain in operation in 2020 per Japanese Wikipedia

16007 -1970

16008 -1974

16051 -1974

16009 -1977

16011 -1981

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/近鉄16000系電車

 

The Kobe Electric Railway continues to run 2 -door, 18m  De 1100 type / Sa 1200 type that date to 1969-1972.

 

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/神戸電気鉄道1000系電車#1100系

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by bill937ca

[railsquid]

The 413 series B11 set on the Nanao Line contains a KuHa 455 built some time between 1965 and 1968 and which still appears to be active according to this:

though probably not much longer.

 

 

[bill937ca]

The Takamatsu Kotohira Electric Railway, known by its nickname Kotoden has two ex-Keikyu sets that date back to the late 1950s.

 

Takamatsu Kotohira Electric Railway 1070 series

 

1071 and 1072 date from 1957

1073 and 1074 date from 1958

 

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/高松琴平電気鉄道1070形電車

 

 

Takamatsu Kotohira Electric Railway 1080 type train

 

1081 and 1082 date from 1959

1083 and 1084, 1085 and 1086,  1087 and 1088 plus 1091 and 1092 date from 1960

 

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/高松琴平電気鉄道1080形電車

 

 

 

[Yavianice]

Seems the Kotoden trains will be retired any day now. 

 

The oldest set being from 1925.

 

https://j-town.net/tokyo/news/localnews/279623.html?p=all

 

Blast. Wish I could have seen them in service before going in retirement.

[bill937ca]

That was the Retro train dating last in regular service in the late 1990s to about 2007 through Kotoden's bankruptcy.

 

On Facebook it was reported Kotoden has largely shutdown due to the Corona virus. The Shido line is not running and the Kotohira line and Nagao line are running every 40 minutes during the day.

[Socimi]

By memory, Tokyo Metro is still running some 7000 Series trains  of 1974 design (altough they were refurbished in the 2010), Tobu is running 10000 Series trains from 1981 still fitted with chopper control and Tokyu has a few 8500 Series trains left on the Denentoshi Line (altough i don't think these will last much longer).

Seibu also has 101 Series trains from 1969 still in service on some of it's branch lines (the Tamagawa and Toshima lines mainly) and some 2000 Series trains from 1977.

Keisei also has some 3600 Series trains from 1982. Sotetsu still has some 7000 Series trains from 1975, but their retirement is imminent.

Chichibu is still using 5000 Series trains (former Toei Mita 6000 Series trains from 1968), Choshi Railway is using 2000 and 3000 Series third-hand (first Keio, then Iyo) trains from the early 1960s.

 

In Kansai, Nankai has some very old-looking 6000 Series trains from 1962 and Keihan also has somewhere some 2200 Series trains from 1964.

 The 10 Series of the Kyoto Subway (Karasuma Line) are virtually unchanged since their introduction in 1983.

Nose Electric Railway runs mostly with various ex-Hankyu trains (2000s et ali) from the early 1960s.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Socimi

[miyakoji]

In the last few weeks I've seen videos of 185 series on I believe Odoriko service.  Although I like them, I can't believe JR East is still running them, let alone in Tokyo.  Must not be many sets left at this point.

[bill937ca]

1 hour ago, miyakoji said:

In the last few weeks I've seen videos of 185 series on I believe Odoriko service.  Although I like them, I can't believe JR East is still running them, let alone in Tokyo.  Must not be many sets left at this point.

I checked Japanese Wikipedia, the replacement of Series 185 with E257-2000 started with the schedule change March 14, 2020.  it appears regular operation is now restricted to the Shonan Liner or Home Liners. These trains date from 1981-82 so they are not as old as some of the minor private railway trains.

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国鉄185系電車

Edited April 21, 2020 by bill937ca

[ranger10178]

Out of curiosity are there any KiHa58's still running? I know there's only one KiHa28 running - on the Isumi railway.

[ranger10178]

I suspect some of the oldest passenger trains on JR must be the KiHa40 series railcars?

Edited April 21, 2020 by ranger10178

[Welshbloke]

Are there still a few 103 Series clinging on in odd corners?

[katoftw]

SL Hitoyoshi 58624 - 1922

[Socimi]

23 hours ago, ranger10178 said:

Out of curiosity are there any KiHa58's still running? I know there's only one KiHa28 running - on the Isumi railway.

 

JR West retired it's last KiHa 58 two years ago, on the 8th of September 2018.

Besides Isumi Railway, JR Shikoku has also preserved KiHa 58 293 and KiHa 28 2002 at Tadotsu Depot. They're used as "depot shuttles" during festival and open-days.

 

12 hours ago, Welshbloke said:

Are there still a few 103 Series clinging on in odd corners?

 

JR West still has some 103s running on the Ako, Kakogawa (103-3550 Series) and Bantan (103-3500 Series) Lines and JR Kyushu has five 3-car 103-1500 Series sets in service on the Chikuhi Line (wich is electrified at 1500V DC, unlike the rest of the network wich runs at 20Kv AC 60Hz).

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Socimi

[chadbag]

12 hours ago, Welshbloke said:

Are there still a few 103 Series clinging on in odd corners?

 

I was pretty sure I saw a 103 somewhere in the greater Osaka/Hyougo area last summer but looking at my photos, I only find 201/205 series.  Except the 103 Osaka Loop Line at the Kyoto Railway museum!   I would have liked to see and ride one.  Maybe one of these last "remote" lines will still be running them next time we are there (cross your fingers for Christmas time).

 

[Welshbloke]

I do at least hope some museum preserves an operable 103 Series. Looking at the list on Wikipedia seems to be the usual story of assorted cab cars stuffed and mounted.

[Sacto1985]

Aren't the Tobu 800/8000 Series train sets that run on Tobu's rural lines some of the oldest on their system?

[Socimi]

2 hours ago, Sacto1985 said:

Aren't the Tobu 800/8000 Series train sets that run on Tobu's rural lines some of the oldest on their system?

 

Good call!

 

While only less than half the fleet is still active (and of those, there are only refurbished ones or unrefurbished 1980-built ones - both with the later front style), their design is of 1963 vintage, as the 8000 Series was designed to be Tobu's equivalent to the JNR 103 Series!

[200系]

Thank you for the very interesting topic Bill, 

 

 

Though I just noticed Socimi had already mentioned them, please allow me to pitch in for, what I would consider one of my favorite non J.N.R./JR group family of trains (and Nankai probably my favorite among the Big 15 private railways), the venerable Nankai 6000 series. I think this series has to be one of the main contenders for the title of oldest EMU stil in regular service in Japan, at least at one of the major railroads.

 

The entire series (11 four car formations (6001F~6035F odd numbers only), and 7+7 2 car formations (6011F~ and 6903F~)) was built between 1962 and 1969 by Tōkyū Sharyō, and were the second series to be built using full stainless steel bodies (i.e. the entire carbody, including the frames where built using stainless steel).

 

Full stainless steel construction (stainless steel body panels spot welded to a stainless steel frame) is a construction method originally developed by the American Budd company in the 1930's. Tōkyū Sharyō was the first, and only, Japanese rolling stock manufacturer to licence the all stainless steel construction method from Budd in the December 1959. All other stainless steel cars built by the other Japanese manufacturers, were actually built using the semi stainless steel construction method (stainless steel plating on a carbon steel frame), which was much less durable then a fully stainless steel carbody. Tōkyū devloped it's own, improved, version of the stainless steel carbody in 1980.  When Japan National Railways started developing the 205 series they ended up choosing the light weight stainless steel for their new series, and Tōkyū had to (reluctantly) agree with a technology transfer to the other participating manufacturers.

 

For the Nankai 6000 series, to my knowledge, as of today only 4 of the four car formations (6009F, 6017F, 6025F and 6035F) and 1 of the two car formations (6905F) have been scrapped, with scrapping of the series only starting in October 2019 (no accident related scrapping either). Contrast this with their carbon-steel built sisters running on the Nankai main line, the 7000 series. The 7000 series were built between 1963 and 1968, and where virtually identical to the 6000 series with the exception of the carbon-steel used for their bodies. They suffered from salt related corrosion since the 1980's and were eventually retired and scrapped between 2007 (7001F) and 2015 (7037F), though all of them still served more than impressive 40~50 year service lives.

 

6001F, completed on December 1st 1962 (with the exception of car 6602, remodeled in 1985, which was built as 6819 in 1969):

 

 

Between 1970 and 1973, Nankai took delivery of 32 6100 series formations (26 four car formations (6101F~6129F+6141F (odd numbers only) and 6 2 car formations (6131F~6137F and 6143F~6145F) based on the 6000 series design. The changes where limited to the introduction of double panel doors (the 6000 series uses single leaf doors) as well as single stage, downwards opening, passenger windows (the 6000 series uses sash type windows), all other parts, including the use of pioneer III based trucks, were identical to the 6000 series. 

 

With the renewal of the 6000 series, starting in 1985, the original Pioneer III based trucks were replaced by the more common Minden Type. This was done because the lighter Pioneer type couldn't reliably handle the weight added by the installation of air conditioning units. As such, it became impossible to combine 6000 series (S type Minden) and 6100 series (Pioneer III)  formations in the same train. The slightly newer Pioneer III type (TS709/709T vs 702/702T) used on the 6100 series could handle the weight increase posed by the A/C installation.

 

In 1996 Nankai started a renewal program for the 6100 series. During this renewal the Pioneer III trucks were replaced by S-type Minden trucks as well as interior updates and body renewal, after the renewal the updated cars would be renumbered and re-organized into the 6300 series. All 76 6100 series cars were converted between 1996 and 2009, and after re-organizing there would be 8 six car formations (6301F~6302F,6305F~6306F and 6311F~6314F) 4 four car formations (6321F~6323F and 6325F) and 6 two car trains (6331F~6336F) in contrast to the other series, the formation numbers are sequential in the 6300 series.

 

As of today, all 6300 series formations are still in active service, with formation 6302F being the oldest (combining 4 cars from the first formation (6101F) and 2 cars from the 2nd formation (6103F)). 6101F was completed on May 25th 1970, while 6103F was completed on June 3rd of the same year.

 

 

Interestingly enough, the Nankai 7100 series (built between 1969~1972), which introduced the changes which were also implemented within the design of the 6100 series, is also still in limited service at this point, though the remaining formations were all built between 1970~1972

 

 

And to keep the Nankai train rolling (pun kinda intended, though still lame), they also operate a limited number of former 22000 series Zoom cars, in the 2200 and 2230 series. These cars were built between 1969~1970.

 

 

All the other major private railways in the Kansai area should still operate at least a limited fleet of pre 1970's stock. Using the 2019 Private railway annual (the 2020 edition shouldn't be out yet as far as I know), as well as some research on the side, I compiled the following list:

 

-Kintetsu also has a few pre 1970 built cars still in service, from as far as I could find, at least the Kintetsu 1820 series (introduced in 1967, the two remaining formations were built in 1970) and the Kintetsu 2410 series (introduced in 1968, as far as I know the oldest formations are still in service) are up there, with older cars still in service.

Other Kintetsu equipement like the 6020 series (1968), 8000 series (1964~1980, though I doubt any 1964 cars are stil in service) and 8400 series (1969~1972).

 

-Keihan has the 2200 series cars, which though they were thoroughly renewed over the years, were built between 1965 and 1968 with a number still active as far as I could find. The 2400 series are also quite advanced in the age department, they were built between 1969 and 1970, I believe al are still in service.

 

-Hanshin should still have a couple 7861/7961 (1966~1968) type formations still in service, though the remaining formations should be all 1968 vintage.

 

-Hankyū still has a couple of 3300 series formations in service built between 1967~1969, with the oldest cars still in service dating back to December 1967.

From the 3000 series, formation 3054F, built in September 1965, is apparently still in service, though this info might be outdated

The 5000 series, built between 1968 and 1969, apparently still has about 8 formations still in service as of January last year

 

Outside of the Kansai area the only other major private railroad with pre-1970's equipment I could find would be the Nishitetsu, though included in the Big 15 section, the company would actually be number 16 on the list.

 

Nishitetsu 600 type, built between 1962~1972. According to the roster on the company's own website, I could deduce that as of June last year, the 8 remaining 2 car formations were all built between 1962~1967, with the 3 oldest (601F, 602F and 604F) all built in 1962.

 

If anyone more familiar/knowledgeable about the fore mentioned railway companies has any additional information/corrections, please feel free to do so.

 

For the Kantō area, I don't believe there are any pre 1970's built equipment still in service. In addition to the other types already mentioned, Keisei is still running a number of updated 3500 series cars, the remaining cars were all built between 1972~1974.

Former Kantō area trains, like for example former Tōkyū 7000/7200 and 7200 series cars were all sold to small private railways after they where retired by Tōkyū. In fact, from what I could find, it is Tōkyū company policy to sell, rather then scrap, all of their stainless steel equipment, this because of the lack of deterioration of the carbody. As such there are still a number of these trains in service by small railroads (though their numbers have dwindled over the last decade). 

A good example is the Yōrōtetsu 7700 series, which started operating last year.

 

 

Also note the assortment of former Kintetsu equipment (Yōrō is owned by a umbrella company owned by Kintetsu), much older then the mentioned 7700 series. The 770 series themselves were former 7000 series updated with new trucks and (AC) traction motors/ propulsion package (Tōyō Denki manufactured GTO elements, one of the very few remaining).

 

Anyway for tldr; I think the Nankai 6000 series is a strong contender for the title of oldest active EMU in Japan, at least at a major railroad (private or otherwise) which would be my own criterium 

 

On 4/22/2020 at 11:42 AM, Welshbloke said:

Are there still a few 103 Series clinging on in odd corners?

 

Besides the ones Socimi already mentioned, there are still 2 four car formations (NS407 and NS409) left on the Nara line. They both have low cab KuHa 103 end cars, with both pairs (KuHa 103-215/216 for NS407 and KuHa 103-225/226 for NS409) having been built in early 1973, the 10th of February 1973 versus the 9th of March 1973. The MoHa 102 and MoHa 103 cars for both formations were all four built in early 1974.

They somehow survived the large influx of 205 series formations between 2016~2018 which resulted in the retirement of most of their sisters. It's anybodies guess how long these 2 formations will keep running.

I took the opportunity to take a ride from Nara to Kyōto on one of the remaining formations (formation NS407) during my trip last October, though I fear that may have been my last trip on either of them.

 

Also in the Kyōto area, JR West runs still runs a number of 113 series 5700 and 7700 sub-type formations on the Kosei line. While the 7700 sub-types are former 2700 subtype cars and therefore "relatively" new, being built from 1980 onward, the oldest 5700 sub-types (former 700 subtype) date back to June of 1974. Though the 7700 sub-types and a number of 5700 sub-types went through extensive life extension work (40N and 30N programs, basically full on renewal, especially the interiors) most of the full 5700 sub-type formations only went through the much simpler N type life extension program (replacing a small number of corrosion points, as well as some minor interior details, but otherwise they are still close to the original) giving a much more authentic experience. 

 

Interestingly enough, it seems that the Kansai region remains the best place to go if you're into (exceptionally well maintained) older, Shōwa era equipment, both in terms of the major private railways as well as JR West. Though even here the oldest designs are/have slowly faded away (though Nankai remains a bit of an exception at this point).

 

On 4/21/2020 at 4:01 PM, railsquid said:

The 413 series B11 set on the Nanao Line contains a KuHa 455 built some time between 1965 and 1968 and which still appears to be active according to this:

 

A very interesting find, railsquid, but after some digging through rosters I'm afraid she's a bit younger then perhaps expected. From what I could dig up KuHa 455-702 was actually built as SaHa 455-6 on the 15th of April 1971 by Kinki Sharyō and was only converted to KuHa 455-702 on the 26th of February 1988. Still quite a respectable aged specimen for sure.

 

Anyway, I hope I could add something to the conversation.

 

Cheers!

[Welshbloke]

The handful of KuMoYa 145s and their KuMoRu/KuRu cousin must be in with a shout, if we include non-passenger stock. They were all rebuilt from 101 Series cars after all. Although that would be an interesting question of whether you go by the build date of the donor vehicle or the rebuild date, as I'm not sure how much of the bodywork was original and how much was new.

[marknewton]

As always, a very interesting and informative post, 200系. Thank you! 👍

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[miyakoji]

@200系 long time no see!

[cteno4]

@200系 great info as always! Thanks for taking the time!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Socimi]

10 hours ago, 200系 said:

Anyway for tldr; I think the Nankai 6000 series is a strong contender for the title of oldest active EMU in Japan, at least at a major railroad (private or otherwise) which would be my own criterium 

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the Nankai 6000 Series should also be one of the last (if not the last) commuter EMU with traditional single-leaf doors still in mainline service (excluding the several second and third-hand EMUs in use by rural local railways such as Choshi or Kotoden).

Edited April 27, 2020 by Socimi

[bill937ca]

 The 1000-1500 series on the very busy Enoden have single doors too.

Edited April 27, 2020 by bill937ca

[bill937ca]

Thank you for a very informative post,  200系.  I'm sorry it took a bit of time to disgust it.