Different Series Together?

[Cat]

I've come across info that JR East runs 5 and 10 car commuter trains, sometimes two strings of 5 coupled together with the second motor unit in the middle.

I suspect not, but curious if they would ever couple together two different strings of 5, one of Series E231 and one of Series E531?

Edited February 20, 2020 by Cat

[disturbman]

JR Central does that. You can sometime see some 211系 and 311系 or some 211系  and 313系 run together.

 

JR West also ran mixed consists of 103系 and 123系. I think on a branch line of the Wakayama line.

[marknewton]

If the couplers, traction/control and braking systems are compatible, I can't see why they couldn't.

 

Mark.

[Socimi]

As mark said, generally, rolling stock sharing the same technologies (so, generally trains from the same generation) are usually capable of multiple-unit operation.

I'm sure all of the trains from shin-keiretsu-densha family (209, E217, E231, E233...)  are compatible with each other, and i'm also equally sure that a 103 Series (or derivatives) is capable of running in MU with a 113 or a 115 Series (and their derivatives too).

[railsquid]

E231/E233 combinations (one 5-car set, one 10-car set) are common on the various Takasaki/Tokaido Line services, which run through Tokyo, e.g.:

 

https://blog.goo.ne.jp/miznetx/e/e386e45f0c437db9e6e56158392301e8

 

I'm not aware of any other current regular mixed coupling combinations in the Tokyo area.

 

Experimental coupling of 113 and 209 series in 1994:

 

https://odoriba96.exblog.jp/26602016/

[Cat]

Thanks folks; so it seems plausible enough to run them together if we get a chance to run the 10 car train on a bigger T-Trak layout.  For regular home operations, we'll only have room to run 5 car trains to allow some travel distance between stations.

I think the E231 is used on the Joban Line and the E531 on the Ueno-Tokyo Line, which run on parallel tracks through Mito and Katsuta Stations, so I'm also not sure if JR East ever uses cars from one line on the other.

There was another pair of hauling locomotives that I had been wondering about because we have one of each, and found definite photographic evidence of the EF64 and EF81 working together: 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/EF64_1030_EF81_95_Cassiopeia_20160604.jpg

Edited February 20, 2020 by Cat

[railsquid]

39 minutes ago, Cat said:

Thanks folks; so it seems plausible enough to run them together if we get a chance to run the 10 car train on a bigger T-Trak layout.  For regular home operations, we'll only have room to run 5 car trains to allow some travel distance between stations.

I think the E231 is used on the Joban Line and the E251 on the Ueno-Tokyo Line, which run on parallel tracks through Mito and Katsuta Stations, so I'm also not sure if JR East ever uses cars from one line on the other.

 

Err, there's no E251, there's the 251 series Super View Odoriko, but I guess you mean E531? I am a bit fuzzy on Joban line operations, but the E531 is dual voltage whereas the E231 is DC-only, so operationally highly unlikely, and Google doesn't show anything. 

[Cat]

31 minutes ago, railsquid said:

 

Err, there's no E251, there's the 251 series Super View Odoriko, but I guess you mean E531? I am a bit fuzzy on Joban line operations, but the E531 is dual voltage whereas the E231 is DC-only, so operationally highly unlikely, and Google doesn't show anything. 

Whoops, E531 it is.  Numerical typo, I'll fix the earlier posts.

 

We've got these E231s coming in for the Joban Line:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10371632

And these E531 for the Ueno-Tokyo (and aha, Bandai lists this as both Joban and Ueno-Tokyo service):
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10382606

Scanning through photos of both on Google Images, it looks like there is just one car with a pantograph in the middle of each 5-car train.  Is that the correct typical arrangement?

Edited February 20, 2020 by Cat

[disturbman]

2 hours ago, Cat said:

Scanning through photos of both on Google Images, it looks like there is just one car with a pantograph in the middle of each 5-car train.  Is that the correct typical arrangement?

Yes, only one pantograph per 5-car sets and two per 10-car sets.

 

Wikipedia would confirm that.

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

On the Joban line in the past, the earlier versions of the 415 series were coupled with the 415-1500 series. By number this sounds like they are the same series, but visually they are very different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR-415.JPG

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/415_series

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Takahama Trainwatcher
Link did not work as desired.

[Socimi]

1 hour ago, Takahama Trainwatcher said:

On the Joban line in the past, the earlier versions of the 415 series were coupled with the 415-1500 series. By number this sounds like they are the same series, but visually they are very different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR-415.JPG

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/415_series

 

 

Yes, the bodyshell of the 415-0s is based on the one used by the 115 Series, and the bodyshell of the 415-1500s is based on the one of the 211 Series, but the differences end there, as their electrical equipment is perfectly identical, therefore there is absolutely no problem regarding multiple-operation.

[Welshbloke]

Somewhere there's a video of an early type 103 Series 3 car (like the Kato Kokuden sets) with a three car 165 Series coupled in the middle. I have no idea why, but it was moving and both pantographs were up.

 

It seems to have been common to mix and match all sorts of stock going for maintenance or scrapping, I've seen photos of 165/101/103/111/113/115 in various combinations with a KuMoYa or retired KuMoYuNi/KuMoNi single cars. While there's some debate about how many of the vehicles in said trains were actually powering, the MU systems must work as some of them were being driven from the cab of the unit being moved rather than the KuMoYa.

[Englehart]

On 3/2/2020 at 12:38 AM, Welshbloke said:

Somewhere there's a video of an early type 103 Series 3 car (like the Kato Kokuden sets) with a three car 165 Series coupled in the middle. I have no idea why, but it was moving and both pantographs were up.

 

It seems to have been common to mix and match all sorts of stock going for maintenance or scrapping, I've seen photos of 165/101/103/111/113/115 in various combinations with a KuMoYa or retired KuMoYuNi/KuMoNi single cars. While there's some debate about how many of the vehicles in said trains were actually powering, the MU systems must work as some of them were being driven from the cab of the unit being moved rather than the KuMoYa.

this one? i think this one was a special train like "Dad Thanksgiving"

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Englehart

[Welshbloke]

That's the one. My Japanese isn't good enough to translate the description.