Train Operation - goods wagon over turnout/points

[NXCALE]

Hi. 

Does anyone know if a goods wagon can be left over a set of points (turnout) in real (JPN and/or UK) operations?

 

Checking an UK magazine , I found the pictures below where it looks that goods wagons are left over the points (see inside the red/yellow square).

This is from a train model magazine so it could not be "real" operations but I was curious about this info.

 

 

 

I remember reading somewhere that trains or wagons should not stop or park over points but I cannot find that source.

Cheers,

 

[katoftw]

It is problaby more yard dependent. Some yards yes it would be fine. Due to limited operations as the yards are small. Other big yards would be a no no as lots of movements happen.

Edited February 13, 2020 by katoftw

[Tony Galiani]

Maybe it is allowed during a run around move?  Looking at the picture, maybe the assumption is that the blue diesel in the center had pushed the cars to that location and has just run around them to recouple in order to place them into the building at the top right?

Or it could just be a random drawing ....

 

I have seen that drawing in the original article in Railway Modeller and thought it might be a neat layout project.  I even obtained a Peco crossing when I was thinking of doing something like this but the wiring required for a crossing intimidated me and I never got around to trying it.

 

Cheers,

Tony Galiani

[Sheffie]

I’d guess that a civil engineer would not be happy with the thought that the weight of a rail car might be left on the points for an extended period of time. But I don’t *know*

[Cat]

Hmm, morning coffee and the lure of railway research.

Oddly, Model Railway Operation In Accordance With Prototype Practice by C.J. Freezer, 1993 says nothing on the topic for or against.  And he likes to grouse about everything that other modellers do that is not prototypical.

Brewery Railways of Burton on Trent, Cliff Shepherd, 1996 has one close up photo of a single coal wagon sitting smack on the middle of a point for no discernible reason (p.43).  I'ld wager a pint that it was rolled to that spot just for a photo op.  The book is packed with actual track schematics of brewery operations, and none look like they have any shunting spurs that would require leaving a wagon where it would foul the point.  [If anyone wants to do a British shunting layout on something bigger than a plank, a brewery in its heyday is the way to go!]

My best guess is that is just a convenience for the tight confines of the ubiquitous British shunting layout on a plank.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Cat

[marknewton]

Way back in the dark ages when I was in shunters school, I was taught not to leave vehicles standing on points. Mainly because they'd be fouling subsequent shunting moves. I was learning in the yard at Darling Harbour, where there were many curved tracks, and you often couldn't see all the way to the other end. In those days most of our yards had clearance markers to indicate where a standing vehicle would be clear of the converging adjacent track. They were a wooden post painted white for visibility, and had a mounting bracket on the top for a kerosene lamp for nighttime.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

6 hours ago, Sheffie said:

I’d guess that a civil engineer would not be happy with the thought that the weight of a rail car might be left on the points for an extended period of time. But I don’t *know*

I asked our perway blokes about that when the track in the stabling yard at Waterfall was being relaid. They said it would only be a problem on a turnout with loose heel switch rails if the fishplate/joint bar bolts or gauge bar connections were loose or damaged. 
 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Socimi]

Here in Italy, you can park wagons only over manual, unmotored switches not directly connected to the mainline and with atleast one axle over a closure rail to "block" the switch from moving again. Wagons parked on the switches must also be with the handbrake fully applied and the main reservoir air fully dumped.

Parking on electrically or wire-operated switches (if there are still any) is strictly forbidden at all times.

 

Needless to say, parking over a switch is practically never used.

 

To delimit the shunting area we use something called "Traversa Limite" ("Limit Sleeper"), wich is in fact an actual, old wooden sleeper painted white and placed between two tracks.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Socimi

[NXCALE]

Interesting information, thanks all for that.

 

I was not able to find the source where it says about this practice. However, I remember something like trains/wagons over points can damaged the points if these are operated. This practice can also lead to derailments. I imagine that if this practice is unavoidable, interlocking will be required or any sort of safe working system.

 

For our train layouts, leaving trains/wagons over points could lead to a short circuit (depending of the layout's circuit) in the worst case scenario or to a derailment as the most common scenario. Maybe it is just a random picture but I have not seen many like this and I was searching ideas for a micro size yard.

 

Cheers,

[nah00]

As far as I know it's a no-go generally (in the United States). Most yards now have excess space so they're not crammed to the point where this would be an issue. Even on a smaller railroad you're still fouling a switch by having a car on it and likely you need that switch to make a move around said car. 

 

That being said I do have one switch that does sometimes get blocked on my layout in a yard but generally I just keep a short string of KoKis on it to not block the points. I rearranged a yard specifically to deal  with this issue since there was too much track and it wasn't allowing for movement without completely fouling the yard and the mainline. 

 

All that being said though, sometimes you have to compress things and you do end up with something like a turnout that a car sits on. Nothing is wrong with it as long as you like it.