Does a D-51 and an "old passenger car set" go together?

[Scoobster28]

I will be the first to admit I don't know much about Japanese prototype trains. I am primarily an American modeler. But, I wanted something to run when I exhibit my Japanese-themed T-trak module at shows. Instead of randomly buying stuff online and having it shipped here, I found a couple of vendors at a large American train show (Springfield) who had a couple of things for sale that caught my eye. One was a Kato D-51 mikado locomotive (2016-9), and the other was a set of Kato "Old Passenger Cars" (#10-034). After seeing what I thought was the D-51 on the back of the passenger car box (and checking with the Kato display table at the show... why not go to the source!) I bought both items. But, now I have a couple of questions:

 

1.) Will the engine look somewhat correct pulling those coaches? They don't have open vestibules which is what older American coaches have, and aside from looking dark brown I am not sure. I think they look nice together, that's for sure.

 

2.) If I wanted to purchase some period-correct freight cars for the engine to pull, what would you recommend?

 

3.) What era would the engine and coaches fit in? Some companies list it on the box and Kato might have but I don't read Japanese!

 

Thanks all!

Edited January 27, 2020 by Scoobster28

[disturbman]

Others will be more accurate, but I would recommend reading the Wiki with the auto-translate (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国鉄D51形蒸気機関車) and then take a look at an image search (google image).

Edited January 27, 2020 by disturbman

[nah00]

What was the product number for the Kato coaches? D51s were used until the 60s on freight and there is a preserved example that still runs excursions currently. 

[Scoobster28]

Oops, the coaches were the 10-034 set. I updated my original post to include this information.

[MichiK]

1. I'm not 100% sure, which the set the 'old passenger cars' exactly is, but I suppose it is Kato 10-034? If so, the combination is perfectly valid. There is one suggestion on the Kato home page on that train set, which demands a D51 (plus two more coaches - note that the white rectangles in the roster are the coaches in the set, the grey ones are models outside of the set)

 

2. Pretty much every 2-axle JNR freight car should fit (mainly WaMu and ToRa), plus at least (most of) all bogie cars with archbar trucks. Again, the Kato home page provides suggestions, though the diagram unfortunately is in Katakana only. If in doubt, just ask about specific models.

 

3. The D51 originated in the late 1030s and lasted till the end of steam operations. The coaches are at least partially of pre-war origin, too, and some survived till the end of the steam era. So let's say, 1950s up to and including 1970s?

[marknewton]

2 hours ago, Scoobster28 said:

1.) Will the engine look somewhat correct pulling those coaches? They don't have open vestibules which is what older American coaches have...

Yes, the D51 is correct for hauling 43 series cars. Open platform passenger cars were never common in Japan and were withdrawn very early in the piece.

 

2 hours ago, Scoobster28 said:

2.) If I wanted to purchase some period-correct freight cars for the engine to pull, what would you recommend?

Anything that was built and running before 1975, which is when regular revenue service steam operations finished on JNR. 

 

2 hours ago, Scoobster28 said:

3.) What era would the engine and coaches fit in? Some companies list it on the box and Kato might have but I don't read Japanese!

D51s entered service in 1936 and lasted until the end of steam in 1975. 43 series coaches were built post WW2 and were in service until the mid to late 1980s.

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by marknewton

[marknewton]

51 minutes ago, MichiK said:

2. Pretty much every 2-axle JNR freight car should fit (mainly WaMu and ToRa), plus at least (most of) all bogie cars with archbar trucks.

Archbar trucks were already being phased out of revenue service when the D51s were new. If they're hauling bogie stock then most of the cars will have TR41 bogies or variants. 
 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[ben_issacs]

Scoobster28,

Your D 51 steamer and 'old time' coaches could be running in present times as a vintage special train, but in that case it'd really need a head and tail  board, so perhaps put it on as a local train or all stations long distance  train  of the 50's or 60's..

More D51's (over 1000) were made than any other Japanese steam loco, so they could be seenin most parts of Japan where the tracks could take them.

As other posters have mentioned, there is a good range of appropriate goods wagons available, both four wheelers and bogie

Could haul a mixed train, some goods wagons and a passenger car, one with a guard's compartment on the end, assuming that the coaches that you have include one such car.

If you run a goods train of the period (no eras in Japanese railway modelling), you'll need one of the little black four wheeled guards vans to stick on the back end.

Kato make a goods train set that might be appropriate, half a dozen wagons, some bogie, some four wheelers, plus a goods guards van.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[cteno4]

19 minutes ago, ben_issacs said:

Kato make a goods train set that might be appropriate, half a dozen wagons, some bogie, some four wheelers, plus a goods guards van.

bill which set is this?

 

jeff

[MichiK]

Addendum on 1. and 2.:

There is a Japanese site full of exquisite photos of steam trains from the 60s and 70s, which are a treat themselves to behold, and which give you a good impression what Japanese steam trains looked like (this is also linked elsewhere in this forum).

[ben_issacs]

Jeff,

Kato goods train set, cat. No. 10-809.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

 

[ben_issacs]

Scoobster 28,

Note that all trains, pass or freight in the steam period require a Guards (conductor's) accomodation.

For freight, this is the little four wheeled black van with the open platform at one end.(U.S. caboose)

At this stage, I'm not going to worry you with the actual vehicle codes, that can come later.

For passenger trains. one can go three ways.

First, a full baggage van, which has a Conductors compartment.

Second, what's called a 'composite' which has som passenger space, some  mail space, and some baggage space, which is also for the Guard.

Third, a passenger car which has a small Guards compartment at one end.

What you can use may depend on what is in your passenger car set, but it's likely that this will be the third option.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[Kamome]

There’s an alternative freight starter set from Kato 10-033 too. A number of the wagons differ in each set. 
10-033 contains a long box van(Waki), a short open wagon (Tora) and a wheat hopper (Hoki) along with the container flat, refrigerated van and guards van that you get in both.

10-809 comes with a short box van (Wara), a long open wagon (Toki)and an oil tanker (Taki)

 

 

[Scoobster28]

Wow, lots of great information and pictures! Thanks.

[marknewton]

5 hours ago, ben_issacs said:

What you can use may depend on what is in your passenger car set, but it's likely that this will be the third option.

Bill, 

 

Sccobster's passenger car set contains a SuYuNi60, a luggage/mail van with a guard's compartment, and an OhaFu45, a passenger car with a guard's compartment.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[nah00]

2.) If I wanted to purchase some period-correct freight cars for the engine to pull, what would you recommend?

 

Dear sir have you heard of our lord and savior KoKi-5500? 

[ben_issacs]

Mark,

Thanks for your info about Scoobster's pass car set, with this he's well set up for Guards accomodation.

I was interested to find out what he actually had.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[cteno4]

21 hours ago, ben_issacs said:

Jeff,

Kato goods train set, cat. No. 10-809.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

 

cool, never noticed that odd set! I have all the components as singles.

 

jeff

[marknewton]

On 1/28/2020 at 11:54 AM, nah00 said:

Dear sir have you heard of our lord and savior KoKi-5500? 

 
An excellent suggestion! Running container trains with steam loco makes a great contrast between old and new. And also makes a colourful train, with the green containers, oxide red wagons and black loco.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/1973年都城駅の蒸気機関車_ｄ５１＆ｃ５５_-_Panoramio_107372628.jpg

 

https://instagram.fvno1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t51.2885-15/e35/15538116_256904274734670_8430776753416306688_n.jpg?_nc_ht=instagram.fvno1-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=1keupgM9AwUAX_bV8wB&se=8&oh=4af65c4bedc9339654c1190ca8ce5be1&oe=5EB6C44C&ig_cache_key=MTQzOTk0NDk5NzIyMTgxODU3Mw==.2

 

https://instagram.fvno1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t51.2885-15/e35/14574218_698638653634807_2774215497854484480_n.jpg?_nc_ht=instagram.fvno1-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=_aSeXDcLZ0AAX8H5MYi&se=8&oh=0ca25931efc97ab573863bed5ad867cb&oe=5EB8897C&ig_cache_key=MTQwMTc4OTMyODUwNTYxNDI4MA==.2

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

 

[lighthouse]

Here some mor examples:

 

1. D51 + DE10  (Sandwich)

http://d51791.com/pic21-sekihoku7.jpg

2. D51 + C57

http://d51791.com/pic21-muroran19.jpg

3. D51 231

http://d51791.com/pic21-hakodate46.jpg

4. D51 163

http://d51791.com/pic21-hakodate52.jpg

5. D51 542

http://d51791.com/pic21-tikuhou12.jpg

6. D51 149

http://nigochu.xsrv.jp/img/hakodate_r/kozawa/15280015_R.jpg

7. D51

http://nigochu.xsrv.jp/img/hakodate_r/toyohira/17240004_R.JPG

 

and this site as well http://locomotivesteam.web.fc2.com/PhotoHakoD51s4142.htm

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by lighthouse

[Matthieu]

Hello,

 

Is it possible, on this set of cars, to easily replace the rapido couplings with knuckles?

 

If so, a reference to advise me?

 

And if you have already made this modification, what minimum radius, in curve, will be possible? I am currently at 354mm minimum on my layout.

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

[roadstar_na6]

They can easily be replaced with the Kato knuckle couplers, there are instructions coming with them on how to replace the Rapido's. Also 354mm should be fine with any couplers on these.

 

EDIT: I have that exact same set too, it works fine with basically any steam locomotive and a few others as suggested by the back of the box and the paper slip that comes with it. My set is mostly running behind a D52 since I haven't gotten my hands on an E10 yet 😄

Edited November 23, 2021 by roadstar_na6

[Matthieu]

Great, thanks for your answer.
 

I just ordered the set of cars + Kato 11-702 couplings + lights from PlazaJapan ...

 

To tow them, I would like a Kato C12 but I can not find any ... I am trying to represent an excursion train of a small country line.

[Kamome]

The longer tender locos should make it around R282 without issue and the Kato 11-702 knuckles don’t cause problems, even on R249. Kato do produce a short, fixed knuckle which I think look better between wagons, but  as they have no moving parts, you can’t push couple 2 pieces of stock together. Good if you have a fixed rake and then use 11-702 at the loco ends. I do this with my Kokis and Takis. 

 

The Kato C12 has not been produced for a while. As you mentioned in another thread, prices can get ridiculous once there’s no stock in the retailers. (cheapest I’ve found is ¥28,000 which is 2 and a half times the cost of new) Don’t give in to those online sellers!!

 

It has been said many times, but Kato do cycle through past releases and do another run when they feel there’s enough demand. I would say, especially with the steam engines, get on the preorder once announced as the stock generally tends to disappear quickly from the stores.

[Matthieu]

You are right, especially not to give in to inflation ... I will arm myself with patience while waiting.
 

Thank you for your advice on the couplings, upon receipt I will look at it carefully.