DCC Light Control in Kato KiHa 65?

[GDorsett]

Hey all. My recent order of KiHas has revealed the powered 58 model from Kato to have an NMRA 8-pin decoder plug in it for easy installation. This is all well and good except that the unpowered KiHas have no such provisions. I could leave the other end on and have both the head and tail lights on at the same time, but that would look weird. I do not understand the circuitry for the lighting system past the switch and what I assume is a resistor. Has anyone soldered a decoder into one of these units? Can you explain what goes where? The most I've done is some simple motour installations. If it helps, I am using a D13W from NCE

 

Pictures will be provided shortly

[GDorsett]

bottom of board while in car:

 

Top of board/cab interior

Top of board

bottom of board

 

 

Here's what I know:

The black switch is the master power control can can be accessed from underneath the car while assembled. It's a simple mechanical switch that, when turned, breaks the circuit.
The black box marked 195 is a resistor so the light don't blow out or capacitor for uninterrupted lighting.
The red LED bulb that is parallel to the board is the tail lights, the two traditional white bulbs on top are for the headlights and the route board, although I do not know which is which. I assume the front, higher one is for the route board so that the rear one has enough room to fit the wide optics piece for the headlights.
I do not know what the small, reddish, glass round thing is on the rear/lowered bulb is.
If I am wrong, please correct me.

 

I am not an electrician and have not done lighting conversions except for a very basic one that was just an LED bulb that already had the correct resistor on it, as I had pulled it out of another broken locomotive.

 

Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Kamome]

I did find a Japanese website where a chap used the basic Kato FL12 decoder on  the cab ends of a Kiha 82 which has a similar arrangement. He removed the copper contact strips that usually touch the light board , soldered wires from them to the decoder then back to the contacts on the light board. The decoder was housed behind the cab interior so couldn’t be seen. 
 

Electronics are also not my strong point so others may have better recommendations.

[GDorsett]

48 minutes ago, Kamome said:

I did find a Japanese website where a chap used the basic Kato FL12 decoder on  the cab ends of a Kiha 82 which has a similar arrangement. He removed the copper contact strips that usually touch the light board , soldered wires from them to the decoder then back to the contacts on the light board. The decoder was housed behind the cab interior so couldn’t be seen. 
 

Electronics are also not my strong point so others may have better recommendations.

 

Except I don't know where the lights to be soldered to and isolated other than the main power source, hence the issue.

[Kiha66]

I have done DCC installs for these in my kiha 82 coaches.  While its not impossible, it is a lot of work and planning required with fair bit of circuit tracing.  I wouldn't recommend it for someone without intermediate electronics knowledge.  I found it very helpful to draw out the current circuit, and then draw out a modified one with the decoder wire colors and the components I would need to add.  Also be aware that the motor car also needs the lights modified, as I am fairly sure that only the motor is attached to the plug.  The lightboard uses the same DC board as the trailer cars.

 

What you'll need to do for the installation is:
1) Identify the polarity and location of each bulb, as well as its function for the car (headlight, destination, ect).  Also identify if a bulb needs a resistor.

2)Locate a spot at which you can isolate the leads from track power and other bulbs, while ensuring that they are still in the correct physical location.

 

3)Make the isolation and identify where to attach the appropriate wires from the decoder (including track power).

 

4)Modify the internals of the shell so you can route the wires with the shell being able to fit back on the chassis afterwards.

 

5)Solder the wires from the decoder, and secure the wires and decoder itself so it is not in the way inside the shell.

 

6)Programming! 

 

I thought I took photos of my installation, but it seems I may not have.  If I find said photos I will post them here.

[GDorsett]

so far, I've pretty much figured out what is where. The issue now will be to isolate the bulbs. The black box is definitely a resistor and seems to be on the head/tail lights, but not the route board bulb. The headlight bulb has a one-way capacitor it would seem that gives it the directional function under DC, this part should be removable for DCC. That bulb is also on the resistor circuit, but for what reason, I do not know; I am assuming that this is because you can't have more than x voltage going through the one-way capacitor.
Right now, the major hold back is do I replace the board entirely and do my best to reposition the tail lights as best I can or do my best to reuse the given board.

[Kamome]

Kato has this page on their website for the Kiha 82. In Japanese but step by step pictures. It might help to figure out where to solder. Looks like the same light board. 

 

http://www.katomodels.com/hobby/dcc/dcc_tips/ho_kiha82l_install.shtml

 

Also found that other website using the FL12. Looks more complicated than I remembered.

http://momo24dan.sakura.ne.jp/kiha82Light.html

 

Hope the images help at least.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Kamome

[GDorsett]

So, currently, I am waiting to see how the decoder in the KiHa 58 controls those lights. It should have been here by now, but oh well. If all it does os reverse the voltage of the light circuit, I might be able to get away with just attaching wires to the main points, but we'll see. If not, then Kamome has the best help so far.

[GDorsett]

The results of this thread have born fruit.

 

 

 

 

 

[marknewton]

Nice work. 
 

Mark.