Comparing N scale cardboard (paper) building kits.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

Many buildings for our layouts can be made from cardboard, called by the Japanese. paper, kits.

There are several manufacturers in this field, I'd be interested to get comments on their products, especially those of the lesser known makers.

My list of card building makers is: Sankei; Amagi Modelling: Advance: Floor Verde; Mokei Kobo Permil  and JioWorld.

There may be others that I've missed.

Sankei is at the top of the list, both for quality  and variety, I'm not commenting on them, have always found them satisfactory.

Amagi Modelling is similar in quality to Sankei, both use resin impregnated stock, which is coloured right through

Their range is largely limited to models of actual stations, some interesting designs. Again, satisfactory  from my point of view.

Advance makes large, simple modern buildings,  these don't seem to have coloured through stock, they are cheap for their size, not a big range.

Mokei Kobo Permil, similar construction to Advance (I think), a fair variety of buildings, reasonably cheap.

Flor Verde. this company seems to have been around for a fair while they make an interesting  range of existing buildings, I have no knowledge of their construction, they are not cheap.

JioWorld, seems similar to Advance, large modern bland design buildings, some interesting smaller ones, fairly cheap.

Anyone who has had any experience with the products of the last four companies, or any other paper kit  manufacturers, please let's know what you think.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne

[Cat]

8 hours ago, ben_issacs said:

Mokei Kobo Permil, similar construction to Advance (I think), a fair variety of buildings, reasonably cheap.

 

Do you happen to know any source for these outside of Hobby Search (where all the structures are sold out)?  I haven't been unable to find them anywhere else.

 

We're looking for this Suburban House model, which with a little work would make a reasonably close proxy for The Drunken Duck, a fine Australian pub in Mito:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10434214

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3644341,140.4720377,3a,60y,32.67h,89.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD_C-qSXjt1DN-BF-YFrTQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US
 
Or perhaps, some kind Aussiephile might be able to suggest another suitable model kit that could be kitbashed into an approximation?  I've scanned mightily through Hobby  Search and sites with Faller, Kibri, and Vollmer, all with no success yet.
 
We have found a plastic kit for a close proxy of The Drunken Duck branch operation in Katsuta.
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10088209

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3962134,140.5259027,3a,60y,172.25h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH2hBK3xjuCCWj5mEQ9igJQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Once our stuffed animals heard that there were two drunken ducks in Ibaraki, we had to appease them and quiet the clamouring by promising to model one or both of them.
: 3

Edited January 24, 2020 by Cat

[cteno4]

The sad fact with most of the lasercut chipboard kits from everyone except sankei seem to be done in a single batch and then seldomly redone. Sankei seems to keep a bit more in stock and not as long to redo runs of kits oos. 
 

I don’t get this as the great benefit of lasercut kits is once you have your cut files done the setup and packaging costs are very minimal, it’s just materials cost and laser time. It’s not like an injection mould where even once the moulds are made there are significant setup costs and minimum quantities that add up.

 

you can find sankei at most all the usual sources like HS, amiami, hlj, Amazon.co.jp. Availability varies a lot, but mostly I’ve had good luck on backorders if you can wait a month or two. HLJ is good for this as they have the virtual warehouse and you can just wait for everything to come in and easily bundle them shipping. Margin on sankei are slim so you see less of a discount (or some none), but at times amazon.co.jp has pretty good discounts of 20-40% off on a few kits and their DHL shipping is darn close to Sal prices. The others are mostly at HS, but you will find them here and there at some of the other usual sources although usually sold out if there.

 

i find the sankei kits the best designed and their chipboard is far superior to any of the others. It has a lot or resin in it and has no singeing from the laser cut on the cut edge or face and has the color impregnated all the way thru the material. It’s also the stiffest and toughest chipboard I’ve seen out there. I’ve been trying to source it since sankei started! Most all the other manufacturers use a chipboard that is less resin so you get singeing and also they are only colored on one face with the back face and edged white or gray. This means you need to mind exposed edges and hit them with markers carefully to avoid them standing out too much. Also the cheaper chipboard in non sankei is flimsier and I’m more prone to want to back with some styrene or wood strips on larger areas of walls and roofs (especially on a larger structure) to stop warping in the future.. Sankei also tends to have the most sophisticated design for construction, using layering to get more detail, make stiffer walls, and create interlocking joints plus a lot of use of tabs. 

 

That being said I do like sankei much above the other manufactures, but they also make some different and interesting structures that sankei does not!

 

the jio world are prebuilt and basically print out models laminated to foamcore. They appear to wrap the joints with the print out layer in many places to help hide the joints. I’ve only seen one in person and it was ok at a few feet but started to look a little flat and clunky up closer. Using foamcore you can’t do much subtle relief details so it’s more on the print shading techniques that work at some distance but start to fall apart getting closer. There is a thread on them here with some reviews.

 

some other threads with more reviews on other lasercut chipboard kits.

Flor Verde

https://jnsforum.com/community/search/?q=Verde
 

cheers,

 

jeff

[marknewton]

22 hours ago, Cat said:

Or perhaps, some kind Aussiephile might be able to suggest another suitable model kit that could be kitbashed into an approximation?

I'm Australian, but I can't suggest any suitable kits to modify, because neither of these buildings look remotely like an Australian pub. They tend to come in three architectural varieties: Splendid Victorian edifices, Art Deco extravaganzas, or huge characterless beer barns. And the names tend to reflect our convict/colonial past - lots of Lord This, King That or Castle the Other. "The Drunken Duck" sounds like the name of a 1970s wine bar in Darlinghurst. 😂
 

To be honest, I can't even begin to imagine the idea of an authentic Australian pub in Japan. I doubt anyone there would tolerate drinking more than one schooner of VB or New. The pool table etiquette would not go down well, and neither would punching on with other drinkers after a State of Origin match I suspect. And as for shagging your best mate's missus in the carpark... 🤭

 

(Now I'm not suggesting that we're a nation of maggoted barbarians, but I've witnessed all of these things at my local, which falls into architectural category three.)

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Heathcote+Hotel/@-34.0858333,151.0088889,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPvDzTuANsL63XvfNwBrEKynneLmNMLpLkysnj4!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPvDzTuANsL63XvfNwBrEKynneLmNMLpLkysnj4%3Dw529-h298-k-no!7i2048!8i1152!4m8!3m7!1s0x0:0xc80dcd4cd5b14d44!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d-34.0858333!4d151.0088889?hl=en-au

But apart from that, good luck with your project. 
 

All the best,

 

Mark.

Edited January 25, 2020 by marknewton

[railsquid]

17 minutes ago, marknewton said:

I'm Australian, but I can't suggest any suitable kits to modify, because neither of these buildings look remotely like an Australian pub. They tend to come in three architectural varieties: Splendid Victorian edifices, Art Deco extravaganzas, or huge characterless beer barns. And the names tend to reflect our convict/colonial past - lots of Lord This, King That or Castle the Other. "The Drunken Duck" sounds like the name of a 1970s wine bar in Darlinghurst. 😂
 

To be honest, I can't even begin to imagine the idea of an authentic Australian pub in Japan. I doubt anyone there would tolerate drinking more than one schooner of VB or New. The pool table etiquette would not go down well, and neither would punching on with other drinkers after a State of Origin match I suspect. And as for shagging your best mate's missus in the carpark... 🤭

 

(Now I'm not suggesting that we're a nation of maggoted barbarians, but I've witnessed all of these things at my local, which falls into architectural category three.)

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Heathcote+Hotel/@-34.0858333,151.0088889,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPvDzTuANsL63XvfNwBrEKynneLmNMLpLkysnj4!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPvDzTuANsL63XvfNwBrEKynneLmNMLpLkysnj4%3Dw529-h298-k-no!7i2048!8i1152!4m8!3m7!1s0x0:0xc80dcd4cd5b14d44!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d-34.0858333!4d151.0088889?hl=en-au

But apart from that, good luck with your project. 
 

 

 

Ah, but what Cat is after is a Japanese building which resembles one of the Japanese buildings in Japan which contain establishments purporting to be an "Australian pub", see the Google Street View links provided:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3962134,140.5259027,3a,55.1y,172.07h,90.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH2hBK3xjuCCWj5mEQ9igJQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3644341,140.4720377,3a,60y,32.67h,89.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD_C-qSXjt1DN-BF-YFrTQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US

 

The prominent "Guiness" banner outside the building in the second link is a clear sign of authenticity ;).

 

 

[marknewton]

Fair enough. But surely for authenticity you'd want to see pools of  blood and chunder in the carpark? 😂

 

Mark.

[Sheffie]

(Men At Work plays softly in the background)

[Cat]

1 hour ago, marknewton said:

To be honest, I can't even begin to imagine the idea of an authentic Australian pub in Japan. I doubt anyone there would tolerate drinking more than one schooner of VB or New. The pool table etiquette would not go down well, and neither would punching on with other drinkers after a State of Origin match I suspect. And as for shagging your best mate's missus in the carpark... 🤭

Alackaday, The Drunken Duck by all accounts is not that charmingly authentic. 

Reviews make it sound a bit more like an Australian flavoured Rick's Cafe:
https://en.japantravel.com/ibaraki/that-s-one-likeable-duck/2436

[marknewton]

31 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

(Men At Work plays softly in the background)

It's a pity that with so many good local bands and songs over the years, most people think of Men at Work when they think of Australian music. Their best-known song plagiarised a kids ditty, and their frontman is from Scotland.

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

[marknewton]

15 minutes ago, Cat said:

The Drunken Duck by all accounts is not that charmingly authentic. 

Reviews make it sound a bit more like an Australian flavoured Rick's Cafe...

Apart from the reference to roos and crocs, it doesn't sound very Australian-flavoured at all to me. I can't recall ever seeing either meat on the menu in a pub bistro, or on a counter lunch. Mixed grills or a schnitty are the go around here. I did try croc snags once at a painfully hip tapas bar in the old tram depot at Leichhardt. They were revolting. They were so bad we went up the road to the Scottish restaurant for a feed instead.

 

Cheers.

 

Mark.

[cteno4]

Yikes had to get you some haggis to get the croc taste out of your mouth, that’s bad! I’ve had croc (well alligator here) a couple of times in Florida, deep fried as nuggets as beer snacks and it was pretty good. Of course it was with a pint or two so that may have mellowed the taste buds, but then again you can deep fry just about anything and it tastes good! I had fried haggis a few times in Scotland and it was quite tasty and of course spam and scrapple here get quite tasty when well fried. The scots even deep fry snickers bars, now that’s living!
 

perhaps the alligator nuggets I was served were just chicken nuggets and they used the ‘[any exotic meat] tastes like chicken’ moniker and the bar getting one over on us northerners...

 

jeff

[Sheffie]

3 hours ago, marknewton said:

It's a pity that with so many good local bands and songs over the years, most people think of Men at Work when they think of Australian music. Their best-known song plagiarised a kids ditty, and their frontman is from Scotland.

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

Personally I am more of a Midnight Oil man. 

[Cat]

9 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Yikes had to get you some haggis to get the croc taste out of your mouth, that’s bad!

Hmm, haggis  ❤️  

Wish we had some around here for Burn's Night tonight. 

I have had some alligator gumbo that was really delicious.

[cteno4]

Gator gumbo is sparking some neurons, I think I had some in Louisiana, lots of odd stuff was eaten there, but many years ago.

 

I was surprised how many different ways haggis is cooked in Scotland when we visited. It had become quite the haute cuisine! Same hasn’t happened for scrapple...

 

jeff

[Das Steinkopf]

On 26 January 2020 at 1:21 AM, marknewton said:

I'm Australian, but I can't suggest any suitable kits to modify, because neither of these buildings look remotely like an Australian pub. They tend to come in three architectural varieties: Splendid Victorian edifices, Art Deco extravaganzas, or huge characterless beer barns. And the names tend to reflect our convict/colonial past - lots of Lord This, King That or Castle the Other. "The Drunken Duck" sounds like the name of a 1970s wine bar in Darlinghurst. 😂

 

 The Drunken Duck sounds more like a pub in the UK than Australia, also we have the tendencies of pubs situated near a harbour having some nautical reference in their name such as the Lord Nelson or Harbourview down in The Rocks in Sydney, in Hobart there's the Hope and Anchor down at Constitution Docks, the locals referred to it as the Hopeless Wanker when I lived in Hobart and the nickname was pretty much reflective of it's clientele.

[Cat]

4 hours ago, Das Steinkopf said:

 The Drunken Duck sounds more like a pub in the UK than Australia, 

Morning coffee time and google curiousity shows that it's sort of a worldwide theme.  There is indeed one in Melbourne, and in Cumbria UK.  And umm, in Mexico, Italy, Bahamas, and maybe more out there.
 
Then there's this bit of bizarreness from Durham (UK, not my nearby New Hampshire) where local councillors  seem to be upset at the notion of implying one could get drunk in a pub.  o_O
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/northdurham/18085094.durham-pub-name-change-drunken-duck-would-set-bad-example/

For our Katsuta location model, we can indicate authenticy by flying the flag.
: 3

 

[marknewton]

I remember the one in Melbourne. It was up in the Dandenongs near PBR. It was a restaurant, not a pub. 
 

Steinkopf's right though, it's the sort of name you'd find on a Pommy pub, not an Australian one.
 

As for the flag, I recall it was one of your fellow Americans who very aptly described it as "the British one on a starry night".

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[ben_issacs]

 Folks, 

Obviously there ain't a standard Australian pub, just as there ain't a standard UK or USA or elsewhere pub.

But, as a slight diversion, my Dad's female ancestors came out here from Wurtemberg, a State in the old German Empire, in the 1850's for the Victorian gold rush.

They settled in Eaglehawk, a town near Bendigo, on the goldfields, and after a while they got enough money to open a pub.

This was on Pegleg Road (what a beaut name!) and was called the 'Golden Eagle'.

I was fortunate to get a photo of it, taken about 1875, with the family grouped in front of it.

Structurally, not very impressive, a single story  timber building, built onto what looks like an ordinary brick  house.'

Corrugated iron roof (what else?), a veranda at the front, two sets of doors, no beer ads., probably didn't exist then, a big sign on the roof which is hard to read, but probably said 'Golden Eagle Hotel' and a flagpole.

Flagpoles were a big feature of the diggings, most claims had one, and when they made a strike they ran up a flag of some sort. 

Possibly for the 'Golden Eagle' the flag went up when the beer was on!

Not a prototype for any sort of Japanese drinking establishment!

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[marknewton]

You've got an interesting family history, Bill. And didn't Bendigo become a beautiful town, complete with tramway? Eaglehawk was the terminus of one of the lines there. You may have seen the old Traction Publications book on the regional Victorian tramways, it was titled "Destination Eaglehawk".

 

 

On our Christmas road trip we saw some very nice old country pubs, here's a small selection.

 

The Imperial Hotel in Bombala, NSW. 

The Hotel Bombala.

 

 

The Grand Hotel In Bega, NSW.

The Hotel Commercial In Bega.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

Edited January 29, 2020 by marknewton

[ben_issacs]

Mark, 

The original 'Golden Eagle' was obviously nothing like the ones in your shots, but it did exist in some form up to about the Great War, but I have no knowledge of its final appearance.

I've no doubt that my ancestors took the tram from Eaglehawk into Bendigo in occassions, shopping, theatre etc.

And, yes, I have all those publications on Victoria's provincial tramways, some interesting reading there.

Regards,

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[maihama eki]

Not to get off the pub topic...

 

I bought a nice little cardstock kit from Plum a while back.  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10603293  I have not built it yet, but a quick look in the box says it appears to be on par with Amagi kits.

 

I would have no reservation in buying others from them - assuming they do some others.

 

The HO version of this kit is still available from HS.   https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10603293 

[cteno4]

Interesting, missed that one from plum. Looks like they are using the fully colored chipboard like sankei. Nicely detailed kit.

 

also the roof looks like it’s the laser chipboard that can get etched. A friend use to do a lot of high end house architectural models with lasercutting a 10-15 years ago and there was a company that made some novel chipboards that with the right laser temp settings you could etch different colored lines into a board different from the surface color. Allow some unique brick, rock, siding, etc textures to be etched into them. I think some had different colored layers you could etch into. Sadly about 5 years ATO the business was pretty much wiped out by 3D printing.

 

jeff

[ben_issacs]

Folks,

Plum's 'Rabbit House' looks very European, but that's not to say that a similar building could not be seen in Japan.

Good to get a comment on its materials and quality. Will be interesting to see what else they bring out.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[cteno4]

Funny thing is it’s prototypical for japan (practically everything has a prototype in japan, like an Italian gondola, not the train kind). I’ve see very euro Swiss chalets, British farm houses, Tutors, etc done for various odd reasons in japan. 

 

jeff

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

That's what architects are for, if a Japanese person goes to an architect and says that they want a design for a Mongolian yurt or a Maori Pa, they'll get something a bit like the original, maybe!

But it'll be something different to the surrounding buildings!

Regards,

Bill,

Melbourne.