Extremely Humungous Typhoon Number 19

[Sacto1985]

Well, you do get a small number of E233's operating as far west as Otsuki, but those mostly run during commute hours (I think). As for the replacing all those E7 Shinkansen trainsets, they'll have to muster the output of KHI, HItachi and possibly even Nippon Sharyo to build them quickly.

[railsquid]

5 hours ago, Sacto1985 said:

Well, you do get a small number of E233's operating as far west as Otsuki

 

See my preceding post.

 

Quote

 but those mostly run during commute hours (I think).

 

There are E233 services from Tokyo to Otsuki about once an hour from 1pm on weekdays. Dunno why JR bothers because they're usually empty though.

[bill937ca]

Hokuriku Shinkansen to resume full-line service

 

The operator of the Hokuriku Shinkansen says it will operate nearly 90 percent of its bullet trains from Friday, when it resumes services on its entire route.

 

The firm says the number of trains will be reduced by 14 to 104, about 88 percent of its usual capacity, due to a shortage of cars.

 

The company says it will consider using trains it planned to use for another Shinkansen line on the Hokuriku line to resume usual service as soon as possible.

 

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20191023_33/?fbclid=IwAR0GaZHnryj657Al6KHCaw2yK3Fe1od7wukgGFUxKP1AnRbhyOx3wch5-BQ

 

JR East press release with Japanese language full timetable.

 

https://www.jreast.co.jp/press/2019/20191023_ho01.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1KzVpPJ9my_btzMe0QEV86UiNRNJ8KnruM1cXjF432oAiCrSHZojo3tvU

Edited October 23, 2019 by bill937ca

[Socimi]

4 hours ago, bill937ca said:

The company says it will consider using trains it planned to use for another Shinkansen line on the Hokuriku line to resume usual service as soon as possible.

 

As predicted, JR East will transfer some shinkansen sets from another line to the Hokuriku Shinkansen.

 

As of now, the only suitable candidate seems to be the E2 series, as it's the only other (besides E7/W7s) capable of running both under 50Hz and 60Hz 25Kv AC electrification (the Hokuriku Shinkansen, and Japan as a whole are divided in half by the mains grid frequency: the european system of 50Hz is used in Eastern Japan and the American system of 60Hz is used in the West).

 

As of now there are only 11 E2 series sets (9x 10-car "J" Sets and 2x 8-car "N" sets) in service on the Tohoku and Joetsu Shinkansen Lines, all manufactured between 1995 and 1999.

 

The E2-1000 subseries (25 10-car sets), manufactured from 2000 to 2010 are unable to switch between frequencies, as such they are limited to the 50Hz portions of the network.

 

[Yavianice]

The Joetsu shinkansen is 50 Hz, so is the part to Nagano (where the E2 8 car 50hz only sets series originally ran), don't see why they can't transfer the E7/W7 to the services that call beyond Nagano, postpone the E4 retirement on the Joetsu Shinkansen, and put the E2 8 car sets back for services between Tokyo and Nagano. Sure it will not be full capacity, and they may need to do a thorough certification for the sets in storage (which will probably take less time than building a new train from scratch), but a train with limited capacity is better than no train. Especially now that the tourism industry is putting more pressure on JR-East to restore services back to normal asap. This should be more than enough sets available to get services back up and running at pre-Hagibis intervals (again, maybe with fewer seats).

 

But that's just me talking with info from Wikipedia.

[200系]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:13 PM, bill937ca said:

The company says it will consider using trains it planned to use for another Shinkansen line on the Hokuriku line to resume usual service as soon as possible.

 

They mention the usage of planned equipment for the Jōetsu shinkansen in another article I read. So that would most likely refer to the E7 formations (F20 and up) ordered to replace the remaining E4 series formations (P11~P22, P51/52 and P81/82) as well as the eleven E2 series 1000 series (J54~J56, J63/64 and J70~J75). Which is what I already guessed, considering they are the only 50/60Hz capable shinkansen outside of the Hokuriku shinkansen fleet (though part of this fleet is of course capable of neither 50Hz/ nor 60Hz at the moment...), apart from E4 formations P81 and P82, which I'm not positive stil have their 50/60Hz capable transformers onboard, that can be siphoned off. Also, it's of course not only the frequency shifting which might be a problem, but also the steep slopes on the early section of the Hokuriku shinkansen which poses a problem for the other series.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens to the four, already in service, E7 formations on the Jōetsu shinkansen (F20~F23). As they are quite necessary for the operation of the Jōetsu shinkansen, I doubt they will pull those off the Jōetsu shinkansen immediately, I wonder if a couple of them might be used as a temporary stop-gap until new trains are delivered/ a decision is made in regards to the damaged formations.

Also interesting, will be to see what kind of impact this has on the immediate future of the Jōetsu shinkansen fleet. The remaining 16 E4 series formation are all approaching the end of their service life, with only formations P81 and P82 (delivered in 2003) (barely) under 18 years of service, and I doubt JR East still performs large inspections on this fleet. While the E2 series (J51~ sub-group) formations are ranging from somewhat newer till quite a bit newer could theoretically serve for a few years longer than the planned standardization a few years from now.  

 

20 hours ago, Socimi said:

As of now there are only 11 E2 series sets (9x 10-car "J" Sets and 2x 8-car "N" sets) in service on the Tohoku and Joetsu Shinkansen Lines, all manufactured between 1995 and 1999.

 

 

Actually, since the timetable revision of March this year, all E2 series 0 subtype formations have been retired and scrapped.

 

The majority of the 8 car N formations (N1~N13 + N21 (Former J1 formation)) were retired between April of 2014 and January of 2016 with the final, scheduled, service being performed on the 24th of December 2015. Irregular service with formations N5, N10 and N13 would continue for a short while, with formation N10 retiring in April of 2016. N5 and N13 would be retired in March 2017, with N13 performing the last run on the 25th of March 2017. All cars have been scrapped between 2014 and 2017, and as such no N formations remain.

Only the two pre-production formations: N1 (former Hokuriku shinkansen pre-production formation S6) and N21 (former Tōhoku/Jōetsu shinkansen pre-production formation S7, later J1 and since 2002 formation N21) were built in 1995, all other N formations where built between March and September of 1997.

 

The same story is true for the E2 series 0 subtype J formations (J2~J15). Retirement and scrapping of those formations started with formation J2 and J3 in October of 2013, and would pick up pace between 2016 and 2018. As such by early 2019 only 2 formations were left (J12 and J15) which were subsequently retired after the March 2019 timetable revision. On the 14th of March 2019 J15 would be forwarded to the Sendai shinkansen facilities for scrapping (incidentally, on the same day as the E2 series 1000 subtype pre-production formation J51, which was send to Sendai for the same purpose) , while J12 would follow on the 19th of March. They were built between December 1996 (December 30th to be specific, so barely 1996...) and November 1999, with the 2 cars needed for the extension to 10 car formations added in 2002.

 

20 hours ago, Yavianice said:

The Joetsu shinkansen is 50 Hz, so is the part to Nagano (where the E2 8 car 50hz only sets series originally ran)

 

Unfortunately that's not entirely true. While it is true that the Jōetsu shinkansen uses 25Kv 50Hz, the Hokuriku shinkansen (and the Nagano shinkansen by default) switches to 25Kv 60Hz after passing Karuizawa station (about 1/3th of the distance to Nagano, after leaving the Jōetsu shinkansen). It actually switches back to 50Hz for a short while after leaving Jōetsu-Myōkō station (2nd station after Nagano), and back to 60Hz before Kurobe Unazaki Onsen station.

 

As such the only 8 car E2 series incapable of running on both frequencies would have been the pre-production E2 series 1000 subtype formation J51 before the remaining 2 cars were added before she entered service. All the other 8 car E2 formations; N1~N13 plus later N21 and J1~J15 pre September 2002, where all dual frequency capable.

 

In fact the following shinkansen have been able/are able to run on the Hokuriku shinkansen:

 

- 200 series formation F80 (former formation F17) was modified to be able to run on the Hokuriku shinkansen in early 1998. This formation was modified to allow for extra capacity during the Nagano winter Olympics. returned to normal service after the Olympics

- All E2 series 0 subtype formations: N1~N13 and J1~J15.

- E4 series formations P51 and P52, only on the 50Hz section until Karuizawa. No 60Hz capabilty, but able to handle the steep slopes of the Hokuriku shinkansen

- E4 series formations P81 and P82, they can only run on the 60Hz sections in an emergency

- E7/W7 series formations of course 

[Yavianice]

5 hours ago, 200系 said:

- E4 series formations P81 and P82, they can only run on the 60Hz sections in an emergency

This is very intriguing. Can you tell me a bit more about how it can only run in an emergency (maybe specific panto's only?) and what kind of emergency would require irregular 60Hz operation?

 

Thanks for the long answer btw. Very interesting.

 

5 hours ago, 200系 said:

Also interesting, will be to see what kind of impact this has on the immediate future of the Jōetsu shinkansen fleet. The remaining 16 E4 series formation are all approaching the end of their service life, with only formations P81 and P82 (delivered in 2003) (barely) under 18 years of service, and I doubt JR East still performs large inspections on this fleet. While the E2 series (J51~ sub-group) formations are ranging from somewhat newer till quite a bit newer could theoretically serve for a few years longer than the planned standardization a few years from now.  

I love this. On this side of the planet we still have ICE's that ran since last century, and NS decided to finally retire the SGM at the end of next year, which have been in continuous service since 1975 or so (sure it was refurbished a few times but still!)

[Sacto1985]

Speaking of which, YouTube member (and JNS Forum member) ayokoi did a zenmen tenbou video of a temporary non-stop service instituted by JR East between Naoetsu and Nagaoka due to the shutdown of the Hokuriku Shinkansen service:

 

 

This service ended on 25 October 2019, the resumption date of full service on the Hokuriku Shinkansen line.

[scotspensioner]

YouTube member Ichi Pika has uploaded a further film of early morning  services running from Nagano utilizing E7/W7  Shinkansen sets but near the end an E257 in original livery is plainly visible in the platform so have they revived one or two of these as a fill in?

[Yavianice]

51 minutes ago, scotspensioner said:

YouTube member Ichi Pika has uploaded a further film of early morning  services running from Nagano utilizing E7/W7  Shinkansen sets but near the end an E257 in original livery is plainly visible in the platform so have they revived one or two of these as a fill in?

Link?

[railsquid]

This one:

 

 

 

[scotspensioner]

Sorry for lack of link due to incompetence! 

Further film identifies set as M-106 parked at platform end..

[Yavianice]

Heavy rains hit Fukushima and Chiba prefectures once more, leaving 8 more people dead. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/26/national/heavy-rains-leave-least-eight-dead-chiba-prefecture-rescue-efforts-continue/#.XbP6df-xXmo

[gmat]

Mountains of typhoon-related waste still rising in eastern Japan

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201910290050.html

 

On the following Wednesday after that typhoon, I cycled to the Tama River near Musashi-Kosugi Station and took some pictures of the flood damage and some clean up efforts. Pretty depressing but inspiring in the busy clean up. 

Grant

[JPTRAINS]

JR East to Scrap All Typhoon-Flooded Shinkansen Train Cars

https://www.nippon.com/en/news/yjj2019110600904/

Edited November 6, 2019 by railsquid
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[marknewton]

Which is what I expected would happen. What a shame.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Suica]

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/flood-damaged-hokuriku-shinkansen-trains-to-be-scrapped/

- All of the flooded sets (8x JR East, 2x JR West) will be scrapped

- 5 E7 series sets on order for the Joetsu Shinkansen will be diverted to the Hokuriku Shinkansen

- E4 series sets scheduled to be replaced by those E7 sets will continue to stay in service on the Joetsu Shinkansen

[Yavianice]

27 minutes ago, Suica said:

- E4 series sets scheduled to be replaced by those E7 sets will continue to stay in service on the Joetsu Shinkansen

YES YES YES

[Sacto1985]

That means the planned speed increase on the Jōetsu Shinkansen will not happen for at least five years (in my opinion), since the five new E7 trainsets planned for Jōetsu service will now be diverted to replace the now-scrapped E7/W7 units. One possibility is that later production E2 train sets could be refurbished and reassigned to the Jōetsu line from the Tōhoku line as E2's are replaced by more E5/H5 units.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Sacto1985

[paolo]

I wonder if any of the 10 scrapped sets will end up in a JR Museum, either in Kyoto or Omiya.

At least the front car can be cleaned up and it would make a great addition to the collection.

[Socimi]

3 hours ago, paolo said:

I wonder if any of the 10 scrapped sets will end up in a JR Museum, either in Kyoto or Omiya.

At least the front car can be cleaned up and it would make a great addition to the collection.

 

There's an even more fitting museum in Shirakawa (Fukushima Prefecture) for these cars: JR East's Museum of Railway Incidents

(altough it's a JR Employees-only facility).

Edited November 13, 2019 by Socimi

[nah00]

That certainly is a good place for at least one of the cars, leave it there as a reminder. Alternatively they could donate some of them to a fire department or rescue brigade to train on for emergencies. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by nah00

[chadbag]

9 hours ago, paolo said:

I wonder if any of the 10 scrapped sets will end up in a JR Museum, either in Kyoto or Omiya.

At least the front car can be cleaned up and it would make a great addition to the collection.

 

There will be plenty of vehicles to go around.  The idea for museum is a good one.   Also using some for fire/rescue or law enforcement/military hostage situation training or similar would be a good use for them.

[cteno4]

even torch a few to test fire resistance and fighting. shouldnt effect scrapping all that much. destructive testing is usually really expensive, cheap here.

 

jeff

[Socimi]

5 hours ago, cteno4 said:

even torch a few to test fire resistance and fighting. shouldnt effect scrapping all that much. destructive testing is usually really expensive, cheap here. 

 

I recall back in 1968 that TRTA used retired Ginza Line stock (the 1930s 1100 or 1200 series i think) for "combustion experiments" at Nakano depot.