Another Sheffie layout

[cteno4]

sorry slipped off the radar and had to find the file

 

here you go. you can use the smaller radius 15 peices and spacers to jockey the track spacing.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Sheffie]

Next iteration. This time, with labels

 

 

I've worked in a way to include the Greenmax Train Repair factory, as well as packing a heck of a lot of freight sidings into a relatively small place.

Meanwhile the forest loop still runs up to the coal mine site. The line runs up at 2% to the bridge and down at 4%.It just fits in nicely.

This plan leaves me room for a couple of new freight trains, and I have a couple of Minitown products pencilled in there, plus another eight Koki 104/6/7 cars.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Sheffie

[Sheffie]

Well. 

 

After some discussion with Mrs Sheffie, we are no longer sure exactly what is going to go where, or how much space might be available. I’m also a bit concerned that a four foot deep table is actually too deep to work on anything near the back.

 

So... I might need to come up with a plan for a different sized layout. Ah well, I’m getting my money’s worth from the SCARM license. 

[bill937ca]

My table is 30 inches deep. I am 6 feet and it is a stretch to reach the back.  That's why the back of my layout is sparsely sceniced.

[Sheffie]

It’s possible that the scenery will be separate pieces that can drop into place, and perhaps there will be some throwaway bushes to hide the gaps. It’s also possible that I’ll just have to go with a different shape. 

So far I simply cannot work out how to make an L shape layout look nice. We’ll see

[cteno4]

Sheffie,

 

at 4’ you can’t reach the back w.o really almost climbing onto the layout or at least leaning on it heavily from a stool. In that position you can pick something up but you really can’t do any work. Your back will hate you and it’s really fun when the step stool flips ofr your foot slips (BTDT). The solution is to have the layout on wheels so you can roll it away from the wall(s) to get access to the rear areas to work on them. Makes a huge difference.

 

Murphy’s third law of layouts: as soon as you put your layout in a spot you will need to move it... 

Corollary: if you build your layout into the wall you will have to move as soon as it starts looking good...

 

i helped one of our club members years ago make a 10’x4’ layout table that resided on top of his pretty much never used dining room table. Since the main path to the bedrooms was past one long edge of the table he put the layout/table back into the corner of the dining room against the wall. I pointed out the reach thing but he was insistent so we just set it up that way. About a week later I got a call asking sheepishly if I could come over and help him move it about 18” from the wall so he could work on it. Later he wanted a 4’x6’ layout for his living room so we made it on rolling table legs so he could pull it out to work and play with it but roll it back over a chest for storage. He loved it as it was so flexible. Luckily the rolling legs he got were also height adjustable as later he wanted it all higher and it was done in like 10min!

 

jeff

[railsquid]

2 hours ago, Sheffie said:

It’s possible that the scenery will be separate pieces that can drop into place, and perhaps there will be some throwaway bushes to hide the gaps.

 

 

This is what I do, but the layout is only 90cm deep. I have no way of making it movable or accessible from behind, but it works pretty well for me. However I wouldn't want to go any deeper.

[RogerK]

Sheffie

Here is the beginning design of an L shaped layout that I was considering. Maybe it will give you some inspiration for your own L shaped design ...

Note that it uses 447/480 Kato curves and is fairly large. Even so, access isn't bad since the the widest areas can be reached from the front and the ends.

Smaller curves would shrink it considerably.

 

.

 

 

[Sheffie]

Alright, I think i can make 8x4 work by moving the layout around when I need to work on the back - and by not putting too much stuff at the back.

 

The evolution of the design has now led me here:

 

Moving the station to the back has allowed me to make the rest of the layout much more curvy. And that's what I always wanted from this layout: tracks winding through hilly forest.

 

 

Compared to the previous, more "greedy" design, I've given up a couple of freight sidings, one loco siding, and the rural platform serving the coal mine. But artistically it feels a lot nicer.

[Bob_NZ]

Maybe consider the bottom yard area as being separated by a scenic divider with the tracks at the left and right accessing this 'hidden' area through tunnels.  The top half of the layout can have scenery to suit and is where  you can run trains.  If you can, roll the layout away from the wall when you want to concentrate on yard duties at the back.

 

Consider moving the point on the right hand side stub track to have it next to the point at the yards throat.  The track can now double as a head shunt and a destination for shorter trains.

 

I note that trains running clockwise on the outer double track can easily get to and from the yard but those running anti-clockwise on the inner track do not.  Maybe relocate your double cross over to the top-left station area to solve this.

 

Edit:   You will not need to drag the whole layout away from the wall each time - just pull out one side so its at an angle - you can then get far enough behind to do what you want to do without losing a lot of room space and visitors get the bonus view of your storage.

Edited November 30, 2019 by gcmr_new_zealand
clarify

[Sheffie]

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

I do think that conceptually the back half is separate from the yard at the front, but I’m not sure about a divider. Certainly I won’t easily be able to move the layout forward  to run stuff around the loops. I was planning on having a forested slope as the divider, but perhaps tunnels can help create a sense of a barrier. 

 

The short siding in the top-right corner is a parking space for a locomotive. The idea is that it can run back to pick up either 16 coal cars or up to 19 Kokis (with a little shunting). The other rolling stock (apart from EMUs) can be picked up by locomotives from the shed/repair plant area without reversing, which is nice. 

 

As for the location of the double crossover... I am in two minds. You’re right that that’s the obvious place for it. But Right now I have it next to a platform and it occasionally gets stuck due to the proximity of the platform model. That can be solved, I’m sure. But I do like the idea of clean straight tracks between the platforms. So... I will have to think about how much the aesthetic of clean lines is worth compared to the ease of use of a crossover between the points. 

[Bob_NZ]

Any movement of the layout would need to be smooth to prevent trains shuddering and derailing.  Larger wheels like supermarket trolley ones would be much smoother than small casters

[Bob_NZ]

Just tossing ideas around...

 

 but you could rotate the whole plan so that the top of your plan is now main viewing area and the yard is the back of the layout as suggested in my earlier post. 

 

The yard area as the back of your layout, behind the scenic divider could be built on its own baseboard, and rails connected to the scenic layout with a couple of expanding track joiners.  This concept does allow it to be relocated if you ever need to shift.  You do have to consider turning it on its side to get it out of the house - remove the trains first!  You also have the potential to one day exhibit the full layout at a train show.  Sure, you might have to hire a covered trailer but it is something I once did with a layout that had large baseboards and it was fun in the planning and at its once in a lifetime showing. 

 

Another option is to place that yard area (rotated 180 degrees) under the the main scenic layout and re-position it to what I call the front - you then have a 2 level layout.  The access tracks would need to be longer and run down from the 'back' . 

 

It all depends on if you wish at this time, to build a semi-permanent layout or a more flexible 'table top' version. 

 

.. my dreaming is finished - sometime keeping things simple is best.

[POLO]

On 11/30/2019 at 4:53 PM, gcmr_new_zealand said:

Any movement of the layout would need to be smooth to prevent trains shuddering and derailing.  Larger wheels like supermarket trolley ones would be much smoother than small casters

 

Hello, I am planning on making a 4x8 or 4x10 possibly 4x12 depending on clearances. Sheffie mentioned a good point that 4' is deep to work on and searched for casters and found his thread. Are there any tips on large casters for a layout or is it a bad idea?

Home Depot has decent 5 inch Polyurethane wheels and it will be on a cement floor.

[cteno4]

Polo,

 

yes wheels are a very good idea if you need to be able to pull the layout aways from a wall to work in the back side. Sheffie is quite right reading in more than 2’ to work any length of time is hard at like 30” off the floor. You can reach up to 3’ for a very short time to grab or place something , but longer work doing any work and that goes down to about 2’.

 

yes big polyurethane wheels are good for stuff like this as the roll smoothly and won’t get stuck in little divots. They are not cheap though. Best to get locking mech on all of them so you can lock down as many of them as possible in any position to keep stable.

 

making your own table 4x8 to 4x12 will either take a beefy structure and legs from wood. I made a lot of 4x8 tables with 1/2” ply tops and 1x6 frame with cross pieces every 18”

 

or you can go with a lighter like 4x4 modules with minimal build that sit on a frame that legs attach to. You could look at premade legs with wheels already attached. Yell and I can show you some ideas to make it lighter and a little modular.

 

jeff

[POLO]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:26 PM, cteno4 said:

Polo,

 

yes wheels are a very good idea if you need to be able to pull the layout aways from a wall to work in the back side. Sheffie is quite right reading in more than 2’ to work any length of time is hard at like 30” off the floor. You can reach up to 3’ for a very short time to grab or place something , but longer work doing any work and that goes down to about 2’.

 

yes big polyurethane wheels are good for stuff like this as the roll smoothly and won’t get stuck in little divots. They are not cheap though. Best to get locking mech on all of them so you can lock down as many of them as possible in any position to keep stable.

 

making your own table 4x8 to 4x12 will either take a beefy structure and legs from wood. I made a lot of 4x8 tables with 1/2” ply tops and 1x6 frame with cross pieces every 18”

 

or you can go with a lighter like 4x4 modules with minimal build that sit on a frame that legs attach to. You could look at premade legs with wheels already attached. Yell and I can show you some ideas to make it lighter and a little modular.

 

jeff

 

Thanks Jeff,

 

I am planning on starting with 4x8 sheet of plywood, but have room for 2-4 feet of width more within the basement without getting in the way on her gym. 

Since I have never build an N scale layout I am going forward on planning to make it one solid table and hope it works with 6 casters from Home Depot. But I think I should make the table more rigid with support and only have 4 casters to help make it easier to level it off. 

 

Thanks for the update on sub structure sizing, I am guessing a hardwood 1x6 will be the best instead of a softer wood 2x4?

I was thinking of 2x4's planed down to a square would be my building blocks for the table, but again I haven't build one before and all this is new to me!

Also, What size of wood do you recommend for the legs? I was planning on using 2x4 planed to a square, but they are soft and anticipating doubling them up to make a 4x4 out of the softwood.

 

[cteno4]

Polo,

 

all depends on how sturdy you want to make the layout base. Really probably could do 1/2” or even 3/8” ply and use 1x4 framing, but 1x6 will just give more meat for your legs to attach to. Attaching the legs to the frame is the point where all the stress is focused. With 4x4 legs you can bolt or screw thru the frame at the corner into the leg and a few screws from the top as well. If any wiggling you can also brace the legs underneath on the other two sides with some 2x4. Frame you can probably just get away with a cross piece every 16” drill some like 1-2” holes along the center of each like very 12” before assembly so you can have good places to pass wires thru. If you want over kill you could do center 8’ joist but then you either need to box joint cross pieces to it (ie cut slots halfway to make a wine case insert grid) or do your cross pieces offset an inch or so to be able to screw then in to the center joist.

 

with 4x4 legs well braced and a sturdy frame you should be able to do with 4 legs fine and less issue as you note on leveling.

 

using 2x4 or 2x6 for the framing is not needed unless you plan to climb on top of it. Long ago I made like 12 4x8 tables with 2x6 framing and 4x4 legs bolted into the frame that we did a huge exhibit model on and had to make them beefie like this as the model was so big it realized standing in to work on or hanging from rafters on a rope to get to stuff in the middle.

 

since you will be able to get at things from all sides I doubt you will ever need to get on top of the layout base!

 

cheers

 

jeff