What can I run on an R150 curve?

[Sheffie]

Let’s talk about trains that handle tight curves well. 

 

 

I’m thinking about designing a super-narrow layout with a single track and 150mm radius curves at each end. 

 

I know that my JRK DE10 will happily handle that radius (because I already have some of the curved track) and my entire collection of black industrial freight wagons will also manage it just fine. But I also know that my passenger coaches, my Kokis, and my other locomotives can’t do it. This isn’t surprising—it’s a very narrow radius. 

 

So I’m looking for either some coaches, or an EMU/DMU passenger train, that will make the turn. Is this feasible, or am I restricted to “tram” type trains? Is this all on a case-by-case basis, or is there something I can look for when shopping?

[bill937ca]

Kato makes several R150  items. At least two are available for purchase tonight.

 

C12 steamer   https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10315912

Eizan Electric Railway Series 900   https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10489157      https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10489156

KUMOHA11 400 Tsurumi Line (2-Car Set) https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10367126

KUMOHA11 200 Nambu Branch Line (2-Car Set) https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10330654

KUMOHA12 50 Tsurumi Line https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10330654

 

Plus any two axle freight cars with Rapido couplers.

Edited July 11, 2019 by bill937ca

[railsquid]

At least one of the TomyTec Bo-Bo chassis (TM-10) will happily go around Tomix 103mm curves.

 

 

I recall some complaints about the Kato KuMoHa units not being very happy with their minimum advertised radius.

Edited July 11, 2019 by railsquid

[Kamome]

I guess the next question is, are you looking for trains that can make the R150 curves or trains that still look ok making them?

 

If it’s the latter, then I would stick with privately owned “tram-like” trains with short car lengths. Lines like the Eizan or Enoden spring to mind. 

 

Modemo is obviously the go to for Enoden models. Tomytec did some articulated trains of the Chikuho Dentetsu in Northern Kyushu. You’d need to buy the relevant motor unit for the Tomytec models and there’s no directional lights unless that’s something you want to modify.

 

These types of trains run through both urban and country environments as well as navigating very tight bends extremely close to buildings. It would give a lot of scope for modeling opportunities.

 

 

 

 

[katoftw]

Tomix have the mini curve logo on the boxes of all their trains that can do those small curves.

 

Pretty sure the Tomix website also mini curve section.

[disturbman]

All Tomix KiHa 120 can run on mini curve sections. As katoftw mentioned, there is a list of rolling stock that can handle this kind of radii on Tomix website.

As an alternative you always have the possibility to work with Shorties, which can free you from some space contraints and can make for really fun and beautiful layouts.

[lighthouse]

3 years ago i made a little test with longer cars, series 12, of Tomix. But this cars had the shorter Tomix knuckle coupler.

 

 

 

But I made a list years ago for Rmin = 150mm too:

 

SL:

 

Kato C12

Kato C50

Kato C56

 

DL:

 

Kato DE10

Kato DD13

Kato DD16

 

Tomix DE10

Tomix DF50

 

EL:

 

Kato ED19

Kato ED75 / ED79

Tomix EF65

Tomix ED75 / ED79

Tomix ED61 / ED62

Tomix EF58 (?)

 

DC:

 

Kato KiHa 20

Kato KiHa 58,28

Kato Kiha 52

Tomix KiHa 10

Tomix KiHa 40 (possible!)

 

EC:

 

Tomix Series 113-500

Tomix Series 115

Tomix Series 211

Tomix Series 209-0

Tomix Series 209-3000

Tomytec - Collection (90%)

 

Cars:

 

Series 35, 31, 12, 14, 24 with Rapido-Coupler (Tomix & Kato)

short Taki types, all Tora types, all Wamu types, Remu5000, Re12000, Ka3000, Tsumu1000, all Yo types!

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by lighthouse

[Sheffie]

This looks rather pleasant.

JR 415-1500 suburban train (Kyushu color) set: https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/92248.html

This is another train that, to me, is classically good looking.
JR 415-100 suburban train (Kyushu color) set: https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/92581.html

Confusingly the older model 415 train was manufactured in 2015 and the new one in 2002. I wonder whether this one would run better.

[Sheffie]

FYI, anyone else out there: the following Kato freight cars are all good on R150.

 

Hoki 2200 (wheat)

Hoki 5700 (Chichibu Cement)

Seki 3000 (coal)

Taki 1900 (Nihon Cement)

Taki 3000 (Japan Oil tanker)

Toki 15000 (gondola)

Wafu 29500 (guard)

Wara 1 (boxcar)
Yo 8000 (guard)

 

[Welshbloke]

I think most Tomytecs will. The 20m or longer stock looks a bit weird on them though!

[Sheffie]

Add Greenmax’s Blue Symphony to the list of trains that can handle R150. But not necessarily to the list of trains that look good doing so...

[GiantRoboJustin]

I'm curious about this too because of temptation to build a micro-layout...or to just have the ability to throw a loop together on my desk and run stuff on it :3

 

Does anyone know where you can find the factory minimum passable curve for Tomix locos? I know Kato lists theirs in the instruction manual, but haven't been able to find it in any of my Tomix ones yet...

 

...Or do they just designate if it can negotiate supermini-curve, mini-curve, or if no logo for either of those, that it can pass through "normal" curve (R243 and larger)?

Edited November 1, 2019 by GiantRoboJustin

[Welshbloke]

Someone posted a link earlier to the relevant pages of the Tomix website. "Mini Rail" is R140 in Tomix terms, "Super Mini Rail" is R103, or in Kato radii R150 and R117.

 

In general shorter stock looks better on tight curves. I'd strongly recommend looking at Bandai B Train Shorty models if you want to build a micro layout, in fact I keep meaning to order some of the R103 curves and try a layout in a boxfile. I reckon a loop of track with a neat little container terminal able to handle two or three shorty KoKis would just about fit.

[bill937ca]

3 hours ago, GiantRoboJustin said:

Does anyone know where you can find the factory minimum passable curve for Tomix locos? I know Kato lists theirs in the instruction manual, but haven't been able to find it in any of my Tomix ones yet...

 

 

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/smc-mc-list.html

[GiantRoboJustin]

Yeah, I saw the the list, which is a pretty awesome list. But I was wondering if they list actual specific minimum curves for each locomotive. For example, the minimum curve for a locomotive that can't do the mini curve, but could maybe still pass through something smaller than their normal (R243) curves (like my ef66 seems to be able to do with R216)...or may need something larger (like maybe a C62)?

 

But I'm assuming at this point that the minimum curve for a Tomix loco would just be assumed to be R243 unless otherwise noted in the spot on the box where the mini curve logo would be

[GiantRoboJustin]

Oh yeah, Kato's glacier express trains. That's one I was pretty surprised to learn was made for R150 curves considering how long the passenger cars are, and the locomotive, though short, doesn't look like it would leave much swivel room for the trucks because the body hangs so low, but I guess it doesn't need much

 

Speaking of non-Japanese prototypes, I've heard that Kato's NW2 switching locos will also do it, I have one, but can't test it since I have no R150 curves at the moment. I do plan on it once I get some thoough

[brill27mcb]

The Tomix "Mini" (140mm and 177mm radius) and "Super-Mini" (103mm radius) curves are meant for trams and smaller rolling stock largely in the Tomytec Railway Collection series. These use the line of Tomytec power chassis (TM-xx or TM-TRxx), and the packages and descriptions for these chassis indicate "Mini" or "Super-Mini" suitability using the respective oval logo indicators. So, unless a package or description indicates "Mini" or "Super-Mini" you should assume a larger radius is recommended. That's not to say you can't push the limits with certain rolling stock.

 

If you look at Tomix sets, the default radius in them seems to be C280. The only set I recall seeing that included C243 was the Thomas the Tank Engine set. You can use that, along with the radius of track switches offered, as a guide to what the manufacturer is thinking. By the way, "C" is the designation used for Tomix curves and "R" for Kato curves.

 

Rich K. (a trolley/tram guy)

[defor]

I've had some experience running on R117 and R150... R150 is a lot more compatible than you'd expect, but one of the biggest problems I've run into is that chassis-mount couplers often can't handle that short radius, and decouple.

 

The TN couplers seem to be a lot more forgiving than Kato EMU couplers, but i suspect it's due to the internal end of the coupler being closer to the rotation point of the bogies.

For example, I can run Tomix KiHa100's on the R150 (not R117), but the Kato models (although also longer cars, as they're KiHa110-112) don't play nice with either. (I haven't tried any of my GM KiHa100 series with stock or TN couplers yet, so I can't report on them)

 

I can definitely verify that Tomix DE10 can run on both R117 and R150, but Kato DE10 bogies bind on R117 and derail by flipping.

Haven't seen a single full-size Koki that will run on either radius, but of course B-Train Kokis will if you want a "tiny Freight"

 

An interesting recent pickup has been the "new" Kato 103 series EMU 3-car starter sets - They use an old mold, but are more than happy to operate on R150. (R117 is out of the question however)

We were told by the importer we bought them from that they are actually "designed" to support the R150- I'm not sure this is true or not, but they do work rather well on it.

 

 

[katoftw]

On 11/1/2019 at 8:14 AM, GiantRoboJustin said:

I'm curious about this too because of temptation to build a micro-layout...or to just have the ability to throw a loop together on my desk and run stuff on it :3

 

Does anyone know where you can find the factory minimum passable curve for Tomix locos? I know Kato lists theirs in the instruction manual, but haven't been able to find it in any of my Tomix ones yet...

 

...Or do they just designate if it can negotiate supermini-curve, mini-curve, or if no logo for either of those, that it can pass through "normal" curve (R243 and larger)?

On the packaging. The minimum curve is printed on the card and is viewable from the outside of the jewel case.

[GiantRoboJustin]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:45 PM, brill27mcb said:

The Tomix "Mini" (140mm and 177mm radius) and "Super-Mini" (103mm radius) curves are meant for trams and smaller rolling stock largely in the Tomytec Railway Collection series. These use the line of Tomytec power chassis (TM-xx or TM-TRxx), and the packages and descriptions for these chassis indicate "Mini" or "Super-Mini" suitability using the respective oval logo indicators. So, unless a package or description indicates "Mini" or "Super-Mini" you should assume a larger radius is recommended. That's not to say you can't push the limits with certain rolling stock.

 

If you look at Tomix sets, the default radius in them seems to be C280. The only set I recall seeing that included C243 was the Thomas the Tank Engine set. You can use that, along with the radius of track switches offered, as a guide to what the manufacturer is thinking. By the way, "C" is the designation used for Tomix curves and "R" for Kato curves.

 

Rich K. (a trolley/tram guy)

 

Ah, okay, so basically if it isn't labeled on the box (or on Tomix website) as minicurve passable, it's probablybeste to assume C280 is the recommended minimum curve, and evrything in between C177 and C280 is sort of at operator's discretion. My EF66 seems to happily haul freight around KATO's R216 curves, and possibly 1 radii smaller, but can't test as R216 is the smallest curve in my posession as of yet... 

 

On 11/5/2019 at 5:38 PM, defor said:

An interesting recent pickup has been the "new" Kato 103 series EMU 3-car starter sets - They use an old mold, but are more than happy to operate on R150. (R117 is out of the question however)

We were told by the importer we bought them from that they are actually "designed" to support the R150- I'm not sure this is true or not, but they do work rather well on it.

 

Oh coo!. I just came across these recently and was trying to find out if they could do R150. The site I saw them on didn't list that they could, which is surprising as I would think it would be considered a good selling point. I know they just got more tempting for me :3

[AlexTakeo]

On 7/11/2019 at 6:10 AM, lighthouse said:

3 years ago i made a little test with longer cars, series 12, of Tomix. But this cars had the shorter Tomix knuckle coupler.

 

 

 

But I made a list years ago for Rmin = 150mm too:

 

SL:

 

Kato C12

Kato C50

Kato C56

 

DL:

 

Kato DE10

Kato DD13

Kato DD16

 

Tomix DE10

Tomix DF50

 

EL:

 

Kato ED19

Kato ED75 / ED79

Tomix EF65

Tomix ED75 / ED79

Tomix ED61 / ED62

Tomix EF58 (?)

 

DC:

 

Kato KiHa 20

Kato KiHa 58,28

Kato Kiha 52

Tomix KiHa 10

Tomix KiHa 40 (possible!)

 

EC:

 

Tomix Series 113-500

Tomix Series 115

Tomix Series 211

Tomix Series 209-0

Tomix Series 209-3000

Tomytec - Collection (90%)

 

Cars:

 

Series 35, 31, 12, 14, 24 with Rapido-Coupler (Tomix & Kato)

short Taki types, all Tora types, all Wamu types, Remu5000, Re12000, Ka3000, Tsumu1000, all Yo types!

 

Excuse me, but what C50 you refer? The kato 2027? (A special edition)

[lighthouse]

I think it was an older Kato C50 (No. 2001)

Edited October 2, 2020 by lighthouse

[tossedman]

B-Train Shorties don't mind tight corners. Here's one on R117 corners at the narrow end and R183 at the bigger end. Switches are R150 I believe.

 

 

[AlexTakeo]

I did some tests. Tomix's ED61 run like a charm at R117, just avoiding highest speeds (specially with tomix's 2-axle freight cars), and my Budd RDC is capable to run R150.

But the new C50 (2027, Kato's special edition) is pretty capable and smooth on R150 too, but need slight mods, like the first mod made for Shigemon at this video:

Quite easy, just a sharp razor and you are good to go with your C50 at R150 radius, even at max speed (forward and reverse)! And guys... what a locomotive! Smooth and precise, truly a masterpiece of railmodelling engineering!

I can even conceal my happiness... hahahaha (When you can run a steam loco in your desk after work in your doctorate thesis like a mad, you really have reasons to be happy :D)

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by AlexTakeo

[cteno4]

Desk toys, a must during dissertation time! That and 2am donuts... (sleep is for later)

 

good luck!

 

jeff

 

oh yes and coffee, lattes, expresso, repeat...