Purchase advice sought...again ^^

[NGT6 1315]

Morning!

 

Currently making plans for further purchases in the next few months, and to cut things short, among the items I considered so far would be the following:

 

* Kato E351 Super Azusa

* Kato 683 series "Thunderbird"

* 281 series "Haruka"

* Kato 0 series Shinkansen

* Kato E3 series Shinkansen

* Tomix 400 series Shinkansen

* Kato 885 series "White Sonic"

* Tomix DD51 and Kato DE10 series locomotive

 

I know it'll be up to me alone to make this decision, but still I would be interested in hearing which one you might pick if you were in my position .

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Well, I have just taken delivery of the E351 Super Asuza - see pictures in the layouts gallery. Looks fantastic, and runs beautifully, as well as having the extra feature of a tilting mechanism - which works 

 

I would always recommend this unit....

 

The 0 series is the iconic train, not just for Japan. For the romantic in you, this would be the one to get!

 

I'm also rather taken with the Kato DE10 - a nice little model.

[jappomania]

My first replay can be "buy everything" but when you recive your credit card invoice I think you cry...

these are all beautifull trains so maybe if you plan to buy all, month by month, year by year I think is better if you buy first the train that are not regulary released and hard to find like Super Azusa, Sonic and Haruka (recently re-released after a lot of years)

Shinkansen models are much simple to find in new and used market, maybe Tomix is more simple because re-release Shinkansen's every 2-3 years (in case you need only a little bit patience)

locos in regular livery are simple to find everytime (not the same for special livery) and are released or re-relased from Tomix, Kato and Microace every year

 

ciao

Massimo

[Bernard]

Oh, Boy....that's like asking which is your favorite child. For me I would go for the E3 or the 400 Shinkansen, why because I don't have them in my roster. 

 

But all the trains you've listed are quite good and all different. Is there a certain era or type of train on a layout you want to model. (If you plan to go for a Shinkansen layout, then build up that roster.)

Then I'll ask the dreaded question are you going to run the trains DC or DCC?

 

Morning!

 

Currently making plans for further purchases in the next few months, and to cut things short, among the items I considered so far would be the following:

 

* Kato E351 Super Azusa

* Kato 683 series "Thunderbird"

* 281 series "Haruka"

* Kato 0 series Shinkansen

* Kato E3 series Shinkansen

* Tomix 400 series Shinkansen

* Kato 885 series "White Sonic"

* Tomix DD51 and Kato DE10 series locomotive

 

I know it'll be up to me alone to make this decision, but still I would be interested in hearing which one you might pick if you were in my position .

 

 

[disturbman]

Buy everything and more... that's the only solution if you don't want to be hunted by regrets.

 

The E351 is great, the 683 is great, the 281 is great, the Shinkansens are great and the 885 is great too.

 

But if you really want something a bit out of the ordinary but that still seems to fit your taste you should get this set:

- http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/ACE124000.aspx

- http://www.popondetta.jp/asp/cgi-bin/shop.php?forward=gds_inf&back_screen=gds_srh&stock_no=571E0101G0200112

 

The real advice is go with the one you like the most or define a thema for your collection (Shinkansens, JR East, JR Central, Diesel train, EMU...). It will make everything easier.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

The real advice is go with the one you like the most or define a thema for your collection (Shinkansens, JR East, JR Central, Diesel train, EMU...). It will make everything easier.

 

 

 

I agree with this comment wholeheartedly. I have tried to limit my collection to two areas, the Tokaido and Chuo Main lines - which still enables me to have a pretty impressive stock list. There's a lot of really nice stuff out there, and not enough money in my bank account, so this is a good way to focus what you are after. That said, I'm not slavish, and I have a few 'aliens' that have taken my fancy over the years...

[NGT6 1315]

Buy everything and more... that's the only solution if you don't want to be hunted by regrets.

 

On one hand you're right. But I figure I would first need to dig out a treasure in my garden!

 

 

But if you really want something a bit out of the ordinary but that still seems to fit your taste you should get this set:

- http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/ACE124000.aspx

- http://www.popondetta.jp/asp/cgi-bin/shop.php?forward=gds_inf&back_screen=gds_srh&stock_no=571E0101G0200112

 

It does look good indeed. However, I'm not sure how an EMU with Rapido couplers between the carriages behaves while in operation - at least some of the carriages will inevitably be pushed by the powered one, and I cannot help but think that those Rapido couplers look more suitable for handling pulling forces instead of pushing forces. Which is to say, I rather prefer the rigid couplers between carriages on Kato units. Also, I'm not sure how tightly the Rapido equipped units couple up as I do not much like significant gaps between the carriages. But I admit that I have never seen a Rapido equipped unit in operation, so maybe I am worried about nothing here.

 

The real advice is go with the one you like the most or define a thema for your collection (Shinkansens, JR East, JR Central, Diesel train, EMU...). It will make everything easier.

 

Well, given that I am mostly an EMU and electric locomotive buff when it comes to Japanese railways this is not really a very limiting criterion, is it? Personally I was trying to concentrate on the general area around Tokyo as well as points east, north and west, so anything from Kyushu (such as the 883) or Hokkaido would be "alien", in a sense.

 

By the way - where exactly did the 485 series EMU working the Nikko and Kinugawa services operate?

[disturbman]

It does look good indeed. However, I'm not sure how an EMU with Rapido couplers between the carriages behaves while in operation - at least some of the carriages will inevitably be pushed by the powered one, and I cannot help but think that those Rapido couplers look more suitable for handling pulling forces instead of pushing forces. Which is to say, I rather prefer the rigid couplers between carriages on Kato units. Also, I'm not sure how tightly the Rapido equipped units couple up as I do not much like significant gaps between the carriages. But I admit that I have never seen a Rapido equipped unit in operation, so maybe I am worried about nothing here.

 

From the units I have I can say that it works great. The gaps are quite small (around 5mm between cars and 2mm between the intercirculations) and are hardly noticeable (that's just an opinion). But if you change the Rapido couplers to Tomix Knuckle couplers then the gap disapears. Never encountered any operational problems with the Rapidos. They work fine but the rigid couplers can be even better, making the set even more rigid. I do think you are a little bit overworried on the matter.

 

Well, given that I am mostly an EMU and electric locomotive buff when it comes to Japanese railways this is not really a very limiting criterion, is it? Personally I was trying to concentrate on the general area around Tokyo as well as points east, north and west, so anything from Kyushu (such as the 883) or Hokkaido would be "alien", in a sense.

 

So you mean the general area of Honshu! Nice, that lets you a lot of room to collect from.   But if you are going to commit to the general area of Tokyo then go for 'kansens or the Asuza.

[ToniBabelony]

Well, my first thought was: what region of Japan do you want to collect/model?

 

* Kato E351 Super Azusa (Kantou)

* Kato 683 series "Thunderbird" (Kansai/Hokuriku)

* 281 series "Haruka" (Kansai)

* Kato 0 series Shinkansen (Tokkaido)

* Kato E3 series Shinkansen (Kantou/Tohoku)

* Tomix 400 series Shinkansen (Kantou/Tohoku)

* Kato 885 series "White Sonic" (Kyuusyuu)

* Tomix DD51 and Kato DE10 series locomotive (All regions)

 

Personally I'd go for the diesel engines as these can be deployed anywhere in Japan. However, seen by the list region restrictions aren't an issue, so I'd go for a JR West 281 'Haruka' from Kato. Just because of its cool looking design and the colouring.

 

Also, the 485-series Nikko/Kinugawa Ltd. Exp. runs from Shinjuku to Toubu-Nikko and Kinugawa. Partially over Toubu lines, hence the altered design and colouring to match the Toubu-Spacia Ltd. Exp. livery: http://www.katomodels.com/product/nmi/485kei_nikko.shtml (hah, that reminds me the time I drew this one for Transport Tycoon! )

[NGT6 1315]

Well, looking at it that way I am most interested in the Kanto, Kansai and Tohoku regions - which I figure amounts to about half of Honshu. I figure this would exclude only the White Sonic, of course . Maybe I should toss some dice!

[Bernard]

Here is the "possible reality" of your list. Eventually you will collect them all. Why do I say this...because along the way probably after you've just purchased your E3, you're going to see the 885 "White Sonic" at either a discounted pre-order or a "Buy it Now" listing on ebay for $80.00 USD. You will immediately say, "How can I pass this up!!" 2 down on your list, 6 more to go.

[disturbman]

Yeah or make a competition.

 

Pool 1:

- E351

- 683 Series

 

Pool 2:

- 281

- 0 Series

 

Pool 3:

- E3 Series

- 400 Series

 

Pool 4:

- 885 Series

- 485 Series

 

Then

 

Semi-finals 1:

- Pool 1 Winner

- Pool 3 Winner

 

Semi-finals 2:

- Pool 2 Winner

- Pool 4 Winner

 

Final

- Semi-finals 1 Winner

- Semi-finals 2 Winner

 

Let's make the dices roll!  

[NGT6 1315]

Here is the "possible reality" of your list. Eventually you will collect them all. Why do I say this...because along the way probably after you've just purchased your E3, you're going to see the 885 "White Sonic" at either a discounted pre-order or a "Buy it Now" listing on ebay for $80.00 USD. You will immediately say, "How can I pass this up!!" 2 down on your list, 6 more to go.

 

 

Yeah, I know this kind of scenario!

[ToniBabelony]

Here is the "possible reality" of your list. Eventually you will collect them all. Why do I say this...because along the way probably after you've just purchased your E3, you're going to see the 885 "White Sonic" at either a discounted pre-order or a "Buy it Now" listing on ebay for $80.00 USD. You will immediately say, "How can I pass this up!!" 2 down on your list, 6 more to go.

Yeah, I know this kind of scenario!

Yup... After my purchase yesterday of my JNR KIHA 183 I'm now leaning more and more towards Hokkaidou then Tohoku... @_@

[NGT6 1315]

Yeah or make a competition.

 

(snip)

 

Let's make the dices roll!  

 

 

Good idea, actually!

[grumbeast]

All good ideas

 

 

  but personally I had to start with the classic series 0, in fact I  liked it enough I bought another one :)

 

just my 2 cents

 

G.

[disturbman]

Hey Dominik, let us know when the raging war in your mind is over and you finaly ordered a set. I'd like to know the outcome of this discussion.

[to2leo]

I got two from your list.  I would buy Kato 885 'white sonic' and skip Kato E3.  I don't like the loud E3 engine sounds and the coupling system.

 

Morning!

 

Currently making plans for further purchases in the next few months, and to cut things short, among the items I considered so far would be the following:

 

* Kato E351 Super Azusa

* Kato 683 series "Thunderbird"

* 281 series "Haruka"

* Kato 0 series Shinkansen

* Kato E3 series Shinkansen

* Tomix 400 series Shinkansen

* Kato 885 series "White Sonic"

* Tomix DD51 and Kato DE10 series locomotive

 

I know it'll be up to me alone to make this decision, but still I would be interested in hearing which one you might pick if you were in my position .

 

 

[Bernard]

I got two from you list.  I would buy Kato 885 'white sonic' and skip Kato E3.  I don't like the loud E3 engine sounds and the coupling system.

 

 

 

 

 

Leo - How is the Kato E3 coupling different?

Here is a photo of the different couplers between the Kato & Tomix 800 Shinkansen is it like any of these:

[to2leo]

Bernard, the E3 coupling is hard to couple and uncouple.  The coupling has to be precise and uncoupling is a pain.

[westfalen]

It does look good indeed. However, I'm not sure how an EMU with Rapido couplers between the carriages behaves while in operation - at least some of the carriages will inevitably be pushed by the powered one, and I cannot help but think that those Rapido couplers look more suitable for handling pulling forces instead of pushing forces. Which is to say, I rather prefer the rigid couplers between carriages on Kato units. Also, I'm not sure how tightly the Rapido equipped units couple up as I do not much like significant gaps between the carriages. But I admit that I have never seen a Rapido equipped unit in operation, so maybe I am worried about nothing here.

 

My old Kato '0' series, Rapido equipped Shinkansen actually runs better with the power car towards the rear which is where it goes if you set the cars up in correct order, I can run it with the throttle wide open and it stays on the track. I find that when I run at high speed with the power car at the front the whiplash effect tends to throw the rear cars off the track on curves.

 

edit disturbman: rectified the quote

[ToniBabelony]

I have a few MU with Rapido and a few with non-Rapidos, but I've never really experienced problems with 'em. However, the length doesn't exeed 6 carriages, so I don't know how the behaviour is with longer MU. What I've noticed though with Rapido couplers is that they are very prone to 'bounce' as there are lots of springs involved. The non-Rapido couplings (TOMIX-TN and KATO) are looking more stable then Rapido couplers.

 

However, I stay with Rapidos until I have all the desired stock and then convert it all to MicroTrains couplers.

[to2leo]

Ah the 'slinky' effects...I know it well!  MicroAce's trainsets always do that.

[Bernard]

Bernard, the E3 coupling is hard to couple and uncouple.  The coupling has to be precise and uncoupling is a pain.

 

 

Leo - Thanks for the photo. That coupling unit is different. I have the French TGV kato train and every time I put that train together I'm afraid of taking it apart because I feel they will eventually break.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Bernard, the E3 coupling is hard to couple and uncouple.  The coupling has to be precise and uncoupling is a pain.

 

 

Leo - Thanks for the photo. That coupling unit is different. I have the French TGV kato train and every time I put that train together I'm afraid of taking it apart because I feel they will eventually break.

 

 

Are those like the Eurostar couplings - perhaps the most stupid coupling design ever produced. Not only do they make you feel they will eventually break, they do break; with annoying regularity!