Generator Van Modifications?

[GDorsett]

As my steam program is finally going somewhere, I need an HEP car to power coaches. Instead of just having a small engine in a baggage car for less than eight cars, I'd like to have a full-spec, generator van style car. I am using a Walthers Proto 73' Budd Baggage car and I have a large, resin engine that I'll use (if I ever find it).

What do I need to build a car such as this other than a radiator/exhaust on the roof? I am planning on putting large vents on the side of the car for ventilation and to show off an interior with mentioned engine model, which has a large radiator on it, so would I possibly not need the radiator on the roof? Where should I put the fuel tank? Are there other details I need?

If I cannot find the engine model I already have, does anyone know where I could find a similar large engine model so I can build more?

 

 

These are the cars I'd be using, although only building one right now as my other steam engine is having issues. As I gather more models, looking to have additional vans to run several excursions at once.

Note:

I am not following a prototype. I have my own design that I am using, but I want to make sure that said design is plausible.

Edited May 9, 2019 by GDorsett

[GDorsett]

Update: I cannot find my stash of resin engine models. Will need more. EBay is not giving me any good results for industrial engines, does anyone else have a source?

[ben_issacs]

GDorsett, 

For your power van you'll need a roof fan, like a diesel loco, with the radiator inside the car, 

Also air inlet louvres in the car sides for the rad. and engine air, and and exhaust outlet, again like a d.e. loco.

Remember, diesel engines are like humans, they need air to operate.

Fuel tanks under the frame, again just like a diesel-elec. loco.

After all, what you're after is basically a diesel-elec. unit that isn't a locomotive.

Perhaps one of the 'slug' D.e. units might do for this purpose. 

REgards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[GDorsett]

So most do have fuel tanks on the bottom and not inside the body?

[ben_issacs]

EGDorsett, 

Most DE locos have their fuel tanks below the frame, but for a power car, with smaller engine and genny, there could be space within the car body for fuel tanks.

Have a look at the power cars used on the Japanese blue sleeping car trains, these sounds like what you're looking for, they appear to have internal fuel tanks, and  do have roof fan(s).

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[Welshbloke]

The Illinois Railway Museum have an E-series B unit which spent time as a generator van (and has now been returned to locomotive form). As I understand it the modifications were essentially to disconnect the traction motors and rig the power units to feed the train supply. You might find a cheap LifeLike dummy E8/E9 to do the same trick with.

 

They also have a dynamometer car with on board generator which has been used to power lighting in other coaches, useful if you want to run steam at night and don't have batteries/axle mounted generators.

[GDorsett]

I've been using a unpowered PA-1 for HEP untill I get a gen van built.

[GDorsett]

Sorry for taking so long for a reply. Having job troubles.

 

Anyways, I found the engine model I intend to use, as well as the flatcar it was attached to (which has since been cannibalized) and the rest of my engine stash.

 

 

 

 

It's already got a radiator and generator attached, so all it really needs is some better paint. (I'm thinking CAT yellow or Scania red) The car it is going into will be getting large side vents so the engine can be seen, as well as a radiator system on the roof, although I still need to find fans.

 

@ben_issacs

That is more or less what I'm going for, although perhaps with a cab instead of a conductor's room for push-pull.

 

@Welshbloke

I've been using a depowered Blue Box Athearn PA-1 for HEP. I have a small fleet of them for just that purpose, pushers, HEP, additional help on hills, etc. I have a few F-units and a Broadway E8B as well, but the E won't move untill I start the prime mover, which will then ramp up/down with speed. I've considered using my Rapido F40PH-2D, as it has a HEP mode, but I don't know how well it will run with the Big Boy yet. If it runs similar or slightly slower, I'll use it at this weekend's show instead of the (bland, non-sound) PA-1.

[Kiha66]

Sounds like a neat project!  Like has been mentioned, the car can be fairly simple, but the generator will need a source of cooling and intake air.  UP seems to do this by adding intake grills on the side and exhaust grills on the roof.  Fuel is most likely carried under the car to reduce the risk of fire in an accident.  Assuming passengers would not access the car you can just install the generator, if passengers need to pass though the car you'll probably want to wall off a section so they don't need to pass by hot operating machinery.  Dont forget an exhaust pipe on the roof too!  Some newer cars also use a muffler to quiet the sound of the exhaust and limit emissions. 

 

UP 209 generator car.  I like how UP used E/F unit grills to cover the intake air hole.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=30039

 

UP general power car publication.  Notice the generator only takes up part of the car, leaving the rest for use for various train functions.  In this case UP uses it as a cold storage car for foodstuffs as well as a parts/tools car and workshop.

https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/documents/up_pdf_nativedocs/pdf_power_cars_historical.pdf

[GDorsett]

6 hours ago, Kiha66 said:

Sounds like a neat project!  Like has been mentioned, the car can be fairly simple, but the generator will need a source of cooling and intake air.  UP seems to do this by adding intake grills on the side and exhaust grills on the roof.  Fuel is most likely carried under the car to reduce the risk of fire in an accident.  Assuming passengers would not access the car you can just install the generator, if passengers need to pass though the car you'll probably want to wall off a section so they don't need to pass by hot operating machinery.  Dont forget an exhaust pipe on the roof too!  Some newer cars also use a muffler to quiet the sound of the exhaust and limit emissions. 

 

UP 209 generator car.  I like how UP used E/F unit grills to cover the intake air hole.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=30039

 

UP general power car publication.  Notice the generator only takes up part of the car, leaving the rest for use for various train functions.  In this case UP uses it as a cold storage car for foodstuffs as well as a parts/tools car and workshop.

https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/documents/up_pdf_nativedocs/pdf_power_cars_historical.pdf

 

Passengers (and most crew, for that matter) won't have access to the interior. I have a set of three of the above pictures Budd 70' baggage cars that I am using as "crew cars" for major Steam runs. One of them will be this genvan, and I assume the other two will be crew "quarters" and the other a car that watches the locomotive for issues, something like a diagnostics coach. All I know is that UP always has one or two coaches that used to be baggage or mail cars behind their steamers, even on freight runs, so that's the goal. Passenger access isn't a big deal, as it will always be right behind the locomotive (and a water tender I am working on as well) or at the very end of the train where I normally have a second baggage car (or set of bagg cars) and the unit for HEP. The goals is to entirely replace the HEP unit with another near-full-sized power generation instead of lessening the load, so I doubt there will be room for an enclosed walkway anyways.

[GDorsett]

On an entirely different note, here's an ex-DuPont tanker that I've since upgraded and turned into a water tender. Mostly paint work as it is now shiny and has orange railings (to fit the colour of the road and the orange railings on the above baggage cars.) Also replaced the friction-bearing Bettendorf trucks for ARR roller-bearing trucks so as to also bring it up to modern spec. Not sure what else I need, but it'll do untill I either find a proper water tender model or get the other information I need to finish this conversion. Seen this done before, so I figured I'd go with it as well.
 

 

 

 

[ben_issacs]

Dorsett,

Yes, you need high speed bogies for your auxiliary water tanker.

It'd be nice if one could rig the connecting hose from the tank wagon to the loco tender, but that could be difficult in N scale.

Whatever you use it would have to be very flexible, and look like canvas.

Both the tender and the tank should have isolating valves for the hose to be connected to, these would be at low level on both vehicles.

For HO scale a white shoelace might do, but nothing comes to mind for N scale.

If your tanker has safety or pressure relief valves on the filling cover, remove them, no need for such with water.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[GDorsett]

Water Tanker is still a work in progress. I have since swapped the old friction-bearing trucks for modernized roller-bearing trucks, although that's as far as I've gotten so far. I will eventually add hoses, but it's low on the priority list, as they'll have to be disconnected every time I put the models away. I have some extra valves and attachment points from hoses from my EF64 assemblies, so I will likely use that on the tanker and go from there. Long-term, I want to replace this with an N&W or NYC spec water tender and use this one on my smaller steam locomotives, but that's a ways off.

[GDorsett]

Begun dry-fitting parts to figure out how I want to lay this thing out. I did find the engine I had, as well as stripped off the old crappy paint and primed it for new paint. Currently trying to decide on if I want CAT yellow or Scania red.

Anyways, now comes the fun part, trying to make it visible. Although it would not appear very clean, I'd like to have a large mesh panel in the side so the engine and whatever other internals I put in are visible, but not sure how to go about it. I may also just replace one of the doors entirely with a mesh panel, since it is no longer a baggage car. I could keep the clean look and have it just hiding inside one of the roll doors, but then you will really have to look for it. Any tips/ideas?

 

 

[GDorsett]

I've decided to scratch the idea of a large mesh panel. I have since made a louvered vent for ventilation, although it's not the straightest thing in the world. I have also begin the roof-mounted radiator and cooling system, as well as given the engine it's first coat of non-primer paint. Will need detail work later.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by GDorsett

[ben_issacs]

Gdorsett,

On your genny set, the two cylindrical objects on the top look like inlet air filters, their conical tops could be aluminium 'the two lower down semi-cylindrical objects on the engine side could be lube. oil filters, black.

If possible put exhaust pipes 2 inch perhaps,with silencers from the engine up to the roof exhaust outlets.

You'll need some sort of switchboard for the elecs., what this could look like I'm not sure, black, say 3 ft. sq. with some boxes on it, on a stand behind the set. 

Possibly a desk or table  along one wall, with a chair, for writing reports, a lube oil tank adjacent to the engine.

Also, probably a small make-up water tank for the radiator.

Depends on how far you want to go with the interior.

Although your louvres are slightly wobbly, they still look o.k.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne

 

[GDorsett]

The large box on the right is the switch board. I figured I'd just use it as-is instead of making a new one.

The two cylinders are, indeed, intake filters. They may stay as is or I may add some minor ductwork from the louvers. The exhaust manifold is also visible, so it will get piping going up to the roof equipment. Also planning on doing piping from the moulded radiator up to the roof equipment.

Not sure how far past that I am planning to go since there aren't windows along the length of the car. May do something at the other end where the other set of doors are, but not sure yet. I do still need to fit a decoder/speaker into it, but that'll be in the middle where you can't see it.

As long as the louvers are good from a metre away, I'll use them for now, but they are definitely wobbly, not to mention the top is bowed. I'd like to make a better set at some point in the near future. I may get some different pieces to build a better one when I hit a model shop next weekend and just not install this one yet.

[GDorsett]

Radiator unit is coming along nicely, although I am almost out of styrene strips for the louvers and I don't have the fans/grilles I need.

 

 

 

 

Why the first two embedded upside down is beyond me. Hooray for computers.

 

This will be the rough location of the engine and radiator unit.

Please pardon both the messy desk and the damaged frame of the model. Not sure how it happened.

 

 

 

[ben_issacs]

GDorsett,

What do the black rectangular areas represent?

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[GDorsett]

That's a base for the vents and eventual fans. It provides a black area to simualte an interior that you can see through the fan/venting grilles. Most modellers acomplish this with a black wash over existing fans, but since I'm building this with full depth, I figured I'd just have a base to go off of. I'll have ti figure out how to mask it off for painting the rest of the unit later.

[ben_issacs]

GDorsett, 

Thanks for that info.

Where are you getting see-through fans from?

On your wide pitch louvres, in real life these would have fine mesh inside, or perhaps outside, to keep out birds and small animals, not worth worrying about in N scale.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[GDorsett]

I'm nor sure about the fans yet. Still looking for some.

I know about the mesh, but I haven't found mesh I like yet. I've been told bridal mesh works, but so far I've found either incorrect patterns or too fine. I'm not going to worry about it right now. That said, this is in HO, not N, so things show up a bit more readily.

[cteno4]

Lurk your local craft store, there are a ton of the toolie meshes and also look at the wide mesh ribbons. There are both x and square mesh versions (usually in silver) that would May work at HO. I’ll see if I can dig up the box of ribbons I got on a close out sale and pop a few chunks in the mail to you.

 

jeff

[marknewton]

Good source of fans etc:

 

http://www.cannonandco.net/

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.