Sankei Spirited Away Structures

[rdatoc]

Martijn,

 

Somewhat off topic, but did you ever get the Sankei Spirited Away aburaya (bathhouse) done?  I am planning a set of Spirited Away TTrak modules (which Jeff will be helping me out with) to add to JRM's TTrak layout at, hopefully, Sakura Matsuri and other future shows/exhibits.  Since I hope to complete the modules within my lifetime 😉 I am just doing the mesa with the Sankei Mysterious Town buildings, but not including the clock tower and bathhouse.  Also, I'm building the mesa rather than using the diorama because it's a tad too unwieldy to fit into TTrak.  And assuming I have time to spare (who does in this social age? 😞) retrofitting the paper tram with a motor and truck.

 

So my question is, if you've done the bathhouse, can you tell me what the height of the bridge (leading into town) is?  I am planning for future expansion with a custom module containing the bathhouse and I want to make sure my mesa is the right height.

 

Dank je wel.

 

Renato

[Martijn Meerts]

I haven't started building the bath house yet. I have this idea of where on the layout it should eventually go, but I'm nowhere near building that part of the layout, and I've been hesitant to start building it before I have either the layout done to the point where I can place it, or another safe place to store it without risking damaging it. I can however check how the bridge is built up, and if it's out of large pieces it'd be easy enough to measure it. You may need to remind me as I'm very forgetful in general, and I have a lot on my mind at the moment.

 

I have to say though, I've been wanting to start some of the Ghibli buildings, and get some of the ones I'm still missing. I also really want that base that they've made to put all the Spirited Away buildings on. I'm not sure how well they hold up colour wise, but I know strength wise at least they can take quite a beating. Another problem is that I was to light them up with lots of LEDs, which requires quite a bit of planning as well.

 

[rdatoc]

So my first experience with a Sankei N-scale building (or any Sankei building for that matter) was the restaurant with the bar and stools (MK07-29).  Still working on it, got done with the some of the walls and the bar area.  Unlike Jeff, who decided to get his feet wet by tackling a small project first, I just plow full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes 😊.  I can give you tips on building the stools after almost ruining a couple of them (they've been discreetly placed at the ends of the U).  Sankei stock is sturdy but not when you're dealing with 3mm x 1mm pieces (the leg of the stool).  Very fine needle-nosed pliers and a light touch are your friends.😓  Here's a picture of the bar with my finger for scale, and the completed building (the Sankei model doesn't look like they got their stools all nice and straight either 😋).

 

Since I plan on finishing the buildings first, it'll be a while before I get to designing the mesa.  I'll remind you every so often about the bridge when I start posting pics of my project.  I'm still dithering on whether I should start making strategic holes for LED lighting.  I'm torn between either modelling the opening scene where Chihiro runs through the lighted town at night or the one where her family walks the street and discovers the feast behind the counter (I'll have to start looking for N-scale roast pig and duck 🍗)

[cteno4]

3 hours ago, rdatoc said:

Unlike Jeff, who decided to get his feet wet by tackling a small project first, I just plow full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes 

 

why didnt you do the bathouse first then?! 😜

 

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I definitely need some more practice before I start the bath house, or any of the other Ghibli buildings really. The bath house is an insane kit, really complex with a crazy amount of small details. I still think the most difficult thing is glueing larger pieces together, since the glue dries fast and the pieces don’t have a lot of wiggle room. 

 

For my Enoden modules, I’ll need to custom build a lot of the structures, and I’m going to get most of them laser cut most likely. I’m using the Sankei kits as an example of how to do design the buildings for cutting. Unfortunately the place where I’ll get them cut doesn’t have a large selection of coloured card stock, so it’ll be plain white card stock, probably of lesser quality as Sankei uses, but it should be a good start anyway. 

[rdatoc]

14 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

why didnt you do the bathouse first then?! 😜

 

 

jeff

 

Nah, you only live once. 😱

[cteno4]

Yah when I saw all those large cutout sheets and the number of parts on some my eyes kind of rolled back in my head. It’s only 130hrs build time!

 

goting to be grand when built. I keep looking at the castles but the are in the same ballpark! I hvento get on the pagoda, that one is a fraction of the size of those but intricate.

 

martijn look at the slow drying wood glues, they make some for woodworking for just this issue of needing time to align and clamp large or intricate pieces. Btw I have an idea for a new jig system for wall assembly I need to play with that may help some.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

11 hours ago, Martijn Meerts said:

 I still think the most difficult thing is glueing larger pieces together, since the glue dries fast and the pieces don’t have a lot of wiggle room. 

 

 

What glue do you use? I use E6000 for the sankei kits. It gives a good amount of stick straight away, but allows you to adjust for a good while, so you have time to get it just right.

[cteno4]

I use Arlene’s tacky glue. It’s basically a thick Pva glue about the same consistency as E6000 so it does not run or ooze wildly. You can get it in a couple of different drying times. It seems to be identical to the Tamiya craft glue. I like the Pva as it can be removed pretty well if needed with a damp Qtip while still wet with little effect on the sankei laserboard. I tried the solvent based wood glues for balsa models but they tended to leave a bit of a discoloration to some of the sankei laserboard if you saw any glue and the glue dries with a little brown tinge to it. Haven’t tried E6000 as it’s a bit flexible when dry.

 

No smell either with Arleen’s as I’ve nuked my system with solvent fumes for much too much of my life... maybe that’s why I never got into drugs as a kid as I was always getting high making zillions of plastic models! Tacky glue also just peels and washes off phalanges easily... they also sell it in a nice little pen applicator which is handy.

 

i have some collage paste to experiment with for better wall buildup where you need to glue the wall layers together. The collage paste is made specifically to glue thin papers over a large surface area with out warping stuff as well as bleeding into the paper a lot. I usually just do a bunch of dots of glue and press with a little flat block of wood to evenly smoosh and the do any alignment needed and then usually the hair clips to make sure things don’t move and keep a little pressure on it while drying. 

 

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I use the Tamiya craft glue. It works well, but on larger sheets it gets a bit tricky, but most glues probably will, especially on sheets the size of the bath house ...

 

I've looked at those collage glue sticks as well, used them a lot back in school during arts class, but the tended to make quite a mess.

[cteno4]

I think the Arleen’s and Tamiya are basically the same stuff, they behave the same in my hands.

 

the college glue is actually a liquid paste that you brush on. It’s special art stuff that is permanent and you paint on, not like the glue stick stuff. 

 

Ill try to experiment with it soon here on some waste bits. I got it to do the larger wall pieces and also for permil that usues a regular card stock not the heavily resin impregnated laserboard sankei uses. Was hoping it would further stiffen up the wall laminations.

 

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Ah right, will be interesting to see how it works.

 

I might get one of those glue sticks to try that out. I remember using it in kindergarten to make stuff, and some of those things actually still exist in an old scrapbook. So at least I know the glue has held for like 35 years. 

 

I did find all my Sankei Ghibli kits at least, I had more than I remember, but at some point I'd just pre-order any kit that was 1/150, regardless of whether I could use it or not. Although, I guess they're all usable, you can just plop one down in between all the regular buildings of course.

 

[cteno4]

The sticks are messy and can be spotty on how well they hold. 

 

My intention was to really make a solid laminant with the layers to add to long term stiffening. My concern with all the little dots to laminate on larger pieces was there may be some odd warping if there is ununiform expansion. Basically want to make plywood! This especially with the permil as many of their kits are a bit larger and much less internal interlocking of parts that sankei tends to do which really help stiffen. Also I know the material permil uses for a lot of the bigger pieces is very prone to humidity warping and is just not very stiff. 

 

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I might actually see if I can get my mother to bring some wall pieces of a Sankei kit that need to be glued together to this arts & craft store she often goes to. They have a lot of card stock and various papercraft kits etc, so they might know of a good glue.

 

I also have some Flor Verde kits, really good quality ones, but they're not pre-coloured, so it'll be interesting to see what happens to those when painting them. At least I can use an airbrush and just add lots of really thin coats.

 

[gavino200]

2 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I use Arlene’s tacky glue. It’s basically a thick Pva glue about the same consistency as E6000 so it does not run or ooze wildly. You can get it in a couple of different drying times. It seems to be identical to the Tamiya craft glue. I like the Pva as it can be removed pretty well if needed with a damp Qtip while still wet with little effect on the sankei laserboard. I tried the solvent based wood glues for balsa models but they tended to leave a bit of a discoloration to some of the sankei laserboard if you saw any glue and the glue dries with a little brown tinge to it. Haven’t tried E6000 as it’s a bit flexible when dry

 

I also have tacky glue in my glue toolbox. Advantages are no smell and no 'strings'. I've used both tacky glue and E6000 for senkei. The E6000 is gives you more time to work with the parts. It's also very forgiving. You just let it dry a bit and peel it off with no trace. Actually easier to remove than tacky glue. Also tacky glue can warp the parts if too much is used. No warping with the E6000. 

 

You should try the E6000 on a senkei kit. Apart from the 'airplane glue' smell, I bet you'll like it.

Edited March 7, 2019 by gavino200

[cteno4]

A base coat of matte lacquer Spray should work and lessen moisture warping. I’ve tried this in smaller sankei kit to see about sealing them for humidity changes.while the house is pretty stable we do get wide swings here and at shows it could be in a wide range depending on venue and season. With the cost and time investment in sankei kits I want them to last, especially with lighting involved.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

I actually use E6000 as my goto general glue for mixed materials and plastics when I don’t want to have it epoxied or CAed down. 

 

I like how the tacky glue works, maybe because I used it for so long on cardstock stuff. I do worry you can peel the E6000 of sankei laserboard easily. I would like them securely bonded. But I’ll experiment like I did with the organic solvent based wood model glue

 

Ive never had warping issues with Arleen’s and cardstocks and sankei laserboard, but I do worry more with the chipboard that the permil uses a lot as it seems very fibrous on the edges and perhaps could swell with the Arlene’s. I was going to try sealing my first permil with with lacquer first to help stiffen and seal the more porous chipboard. Permil also looks like it may need some edge and surface painting as their chipboard is mostly just surfaced colored not colored throughout and there can be some singe areas.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

37 minutes ago, Martijn Meerts said:

I might actually see if I can get my mother to bring some wall pieces of a Sankei kit that need to be glued together to this arts & craft store she often goes to. They have a lot of card stock and various papercraft kits etc, so they might know of a good glue.

 

Take a bunch of the waste bits and maybe try both laminating and 90 degree joints to see how the glues work. 

 

I found fhe collage paste thru an artist friend who did mixed media stuff and I was asking about worry of humidity and warping with paper art stuff.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gavino200]

 

10 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

I like how the tacky glue works, maybe because I used it for so long on cardstock stuff. I do worry you can peel the E6000 of sankei laserboard easily. I would like them securely bonded. But I’ll experiment like I did with the organic solvent based wood model glue

 

 

Ah. I actually want to be able to get back inside in case I need to replace an LED or something. But I haven't had any fall apart with use.

 

What kind of lacquer do you use btw? Just regular matt clear coat?

[cteno4]

Yep just plain old dull coat or I have the same stuff in a big can, matte clear lacquer. Do light coats. Problem is fumes and I can’t do this like 4 months+ out of the year in the house. If I spray in the shop I have to make sure to do it before doing any work in there that day and let it dry for a while before doing anything and make sure to cover while curing as it’s like statically charged to pick up the fine saw dust. It takes like a day to outgass well. I need to try it in the paint hood to see if it is good enough but I need to wait until spring so I can open windows if it’s a bust or I will be in deep doo doo! I’ve also thought it may be an issue spraying here outside here in summer as the air can be like soup and I wonder how much can get sucked up while the first side is drying. Optimally having it at like 50% or so humidity stabilized is probably the best in the long run. Outside I need to cover with one of those fly nets soon after spraying as for some reason one species of Knatts here is attracted to wet lacquer paints and will be on stuff with a minute of spraying.

 

Im not concerned about the sankei much really it’s the permil with the really cheap chipboards and perhaps edge and some panel painting that concerns me mostly. This is also the stuff that also sucks up moisture faster and warps easily.

 

in california I never really had much issue with wood or chipboard warping, but really different world here in dc with the wild swings.

 

jeff

[rdatoc]

6 hours ago, Martijn Meerts said:

Ah right, will be interesting to see how it works.

 

I might get one of those glue sticks to try that out. I remember using it in kindergarten to make stuff, and some of those things actually still exist in an old scrapbook. So at least I know the glue has held for like 35 years. 

 

I did find all my Sankei Ghibli kits at least, I had more than I remember, but at some point I'd just pre-order any kit that was 1/150, regardless of whether I could use it or not. Although, I guess they're all usable, you can just plop one down in between all the regular buildings of course.

 

 

I had the same idea - using the Sankei non-Ghibli/non-series-based buildings like this soba shop to fill in the gaps for the Strange Town layout.  The pictures for the Spirited Away diorama show a lot more buildings than Sankei has released in the series.

 

BTW, thanks Jeff for spinning this thread off of Martijn's.

 

So, lighting.  Found this thread from last year which had good tips (thanks again, Jeff).  What's a good place to order LEDs, resistors, pots and other assorted electronic gewgaws?  I figure that I should try it out on a building before permanently gluing it all together and eyeball the effect, specially at night.

[cteno4]

Aliexpress.com and ebay are both good for the components.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-50pcs-100pcs-0402-0603-0805-1206-Pre-Wired-SMD-LED-White-Red-Blue-DC9-12V/202193017074?hash=item2f13a498f2:m:mbInAzPbosj9UtDGnsApGjQ

 

if you use a 5v power supply the. 2k .25w pots work fine and add a 100R limiting resistor if you want to play it safe on Turing the pot all the way down.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20pcs-RM065-RM-065-100-200-500-1K-2K-5K-10K-20K-50K-100K-200K-500K/32958882060.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.16.15ab77b799Hv0g&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10130_10068_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10902_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_70,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=f26bacf4-642a-4672-a441-19f2fd2f57ff-2&algo_pvid=f26bacf4-642a-4672-a441-19f2fd2f57ff&transAbTest=ae803_4

 

or smaller smd ones

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20PCS-3-3-Trimpot-Trimmer-Potentiometer-Variable-Resistor-2K-ohm-3X3-SMD-Potentiometer-Resistance-2000R-OHM/32877980609.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.75.22b91cbeWvKgDz&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10130_10068_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10902_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_70,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=1d7ebb95-3fa6-4e3a-907b-f90f4985e44a-11&algo_pvid=1d7ebb95-3fa6-4e3a-907b-f90f4985e44a&transAbTest=ae803_4

 

Imcan get you some components to start playing with.

 

lighting is an art to play with. Usually doing more leds at much reduced brightness gives a much better look and avoid the mini suns ans dealing with light leaks everywhere! Adding a few internal walls to have part unlit also is more realistic as rarely every room is lit at once.

 

luckily sankei laserboard is very dense and usually 2 or 3 layers deep and pretty light resistant, but using leds at low levels again helps. Also sankei usually does corners with a double rabit joint so it seals light much better than the usual butt joint. 

 

I can show show you some ways of soldering all this up and doing the magnet connection so you don’t need to glue down structures and have an easy electrical connection.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Jeff, do you coat the kit before building them or after building them? Before would be easier since you can hit both sides and get an even coat, but it might affect the strength of the bond when glueing parts together. If you coat it afterwards, there's lots of areas you might not be able to hit at all, especially in the larger kits with internal support structures or multiple floors. I do wonder if especially Sankei is prone to warping though, there can be some pretty big changes in humidity in Japan, and late summers there are crazy, so you'd sort of think they use a type of card stock / laser board that's resistant to moisture. Of course, if you also start weathering the Sankei kits, you'll eventually have to clear coat them.. 

 

As for lighting, since my layout is computer controlled (or, will be, eventually), I also want to computer control the lighting. I also want to divide the buildings up a bit into virtual rooms, so I can have lights turn on in say only the living room initially, and later on have them turn on in a bedroom, etc. This requires quite a bit of extra planning, and the need to block out small bits of the interior using something like black cardboard to prevent light leaking. I tried cutting small cardboard boxes, but it was hard to get good cuts on especially the small windows, so that's another thing I want to try to get laser cut at some point.

[cteno4]

I’ve done one lacquer pre build. once done with glazing the clear coat is an issue on the glazing. The Pva seems to stick well to the lacquer finish well, but I’ve not torture tested it, which is a good point I should. My thoughts were the same for weathering. I’m not as concerned with the sankei as the laserboard they use has a lot of resin in it (not easy to cut at all with a sharp knife) and the inthernal walls and good interlocking. It’s the permil that really worry me for warping as they use some really cheap chipboard and uncolored edges that need touchup in places. I’m not sure they think that far down the road on these lasting a decade! 

 

the arduino nanos are perfect for doing the computer control of the lights, but the board is too big to fit in small structures, meaning multiple led wires need to run out of the structure — pita. but now ATtiny85 you could put the chip in the house and get 4 pwm channels! I’m really intrigued by this and just having a little program that on power up turns on the led in the main room then randomly cycles lights on and off in other rooms. Could have it so that over an hour it does a dusk to dawn cycle you could cycle with room lighting. Everything could be internal to the building and just supply 5v. 

 

I want to get into making more sankeis this this year and experiment more. I’ve not lit one yet other than sticking leds in them to look at light leak level.

 

jeff

[Sheffie]

Now I’m wondering how easy it is to feed the input from a light sensor into one of these Arduino things. 

If it is, and the sensor provides a decent range of values, not just “it is light/it is dark”, then I think we could work some magic. 

Imagine turning out the lights in your room and seeing a dozen lights turning on, each with its own individual random delay.