Local vs long distance freight?

[Sheffie]

Does it make sense to run a separate “local” freight train containing cars that can be unloaded by hand at a rural freight station (Box cars and the like), or is it more typical for those cars to be combined into a general freight train with more “industrial” wagons carrying coal, oil, or bulk foods or minerals, over longer distances? 

 

I guess I’m vaguely hoping for a justification for putting another freight train together, and keeping the local stuff separate (in a train that fits the short platform). 

 

Note that this isn’t anything to do with Kokis or containers. I’m assuming that those would be entirely separate since they require specific equipment to load them onto trains. 

[scotspensioner]

As far as I know,there was a bonfire of local goods trains when JR was formed in 1987.Certain traffic's were retained for a time such as the blue box Vans till about 2010 but these have since been withdrawn.

If you're not fussy about periods you can run trains of  Vans and open wagons.The black period rolling stock behind a D51 could be close to a British freight train with a wd 2-8-0

On my you tube observations there is very little that isn't containers or oil tanks!

[Sheffie]

Just shy of 2010 is in my time frame. The layout is set in a fairly quiet valley, so I’m hoping to get away with some older rolling stock running locally 

[scotspensioner]

 

2 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

Just sh2010 is in my time frame. The layout is set in a fairly quiet valley, so I’m hoping to get away with some older rolling stock running locally 

There are exceptions here and there.Ive seen a black open wagon in a military train quite recently.

But rule one applies here.( It's my layout and I'll run what I want!!!)

 

[bill937ca]

Most freight since the late 1980s has been handled by containers. There are container train sidings where container trains  pul -in and containers are unloaded by huge forklifts without breaking up the train. Containers are then loaded right onto trucks. Its not handled by hand.

 

 

 

[Khaul]

Hello Sheffie,

 

Take a look to the "Planning Aizu" thread. 

You will find a lot of information about local freight with photos, videos, timetables and so on. Some lines in Hokkaido did have coal through traffic (they probably still do) and piecemeal local trains. I don't think they were normally consolidated.

[bill937ca]

 

Journalists and photographers joined the cargo train operated by JR freight. I ran 63.2 kilometers from "Tokyo Currency Terminal Station" to "Sagami Freight Station" in 96 minutes. This "scheduled operation" is an advantage of cargo, and is supported by breath-taking cooperation by a skilled operator and a "maneuver". Combined with the task of forklift pilots deeply loading and unloading containers at the arrival station, they will release the press for the first time. Purchase video material from here　

[Sheffie]

Wow. Thanks for the thread link @Khaul— that’s an impressive effort in research and planning. 

 

My little valley is much less specific in time and space. It’s somewhere in Niigata on the Ban’etsu West line, around 2008-9?

 

Right now, the grand plan is for five trains, of which two will be stopping, and three passing through en route to destinations further afield. 

 

The local freight train will be two Wara 1 boxcars and one Toki 15000, with a Yo 8000 bringing up the rear. Probably pulled by a DE10.  In Kyūshū livery. Because of rule one. 

[Sheffie]

Long distance freight will consist of several tankers, coal wagons, and other bulk materials in hoppers. 

 

Then of course there will be a container train. 

 

And yes, astute observers may have noticed a slight evolution of my plans from the original idea of one passenger and one freight train. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Sheffie

[Kiha66]

I could very easily imagine a Local line running older freight cars with a little switching for the train fans to enjoy.  Maybe they partnered with their local towns to showcase local goods, transported by train like in the olden days?  I could see it drawing a lot of railway nerds, as well as tourists looking for small town nostalgia.  

At just after 15:40 there's a shot of a single car dropped of at a freight siding, as well as a 16:18 and 18:20 there are some interesting local trains with passenger and freight mixed.  I can very well see a tourist line recreating such traffic!  

 

[Khaul]

Going pre 1987 makes things far easier for freight operations. Otherwise it is container trains...

[Nick_Burman]

JRF runs a few - very few these days - "branchline" freights. And most of them are containers. One example is in Hokuriku, where JRF ventures (or at least used to do so) up the Johanna Line to service a paper mill. Another train which comes to my mind is the Ube Cement fly ash service somewhere in the wilds of Hiroshima Prefecture (?). Another service (now gone) used to travel along part of the Kisei Main Line from Nagoya. In any case all services are/were from large industrial customers or container terminals (which needen't be gigantic...there is one in Kanagawa which is a solitary siding with a loading pad).

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

2 hours ago, Sheffie said:

The local freight train will be two Wara 1 boxcars and one Toki 15000, with a Yo 8000 bringing up the rear. Probably pulled by a DE10. 

 You'll have to wind the timetable waaaayyyy back before 1987 to justify them...

 

Cheers NB

[railsquid]

I suspect the only "modern" justification would be as a preserved "demonstration" freight train, though I've never heard of such in Japan.

 

6 hours ago, scotspensioner said:

As far as I know,there was a bonfire of local goods trains when JR was formed in 1987.Certain traffic's were retained for a time such as the blue box Vans till about 2010 but these have since been withdrawn.

If you're not fussy about periods you can run trains of  Vans and open wagons.The black period rolling stock behind a D51 could be close to a British freight train with a wd 2-8-0

On my you tube observations there is very little that isn't containers or oil tanks!

 

Various types of hopper wagon (hoki) in block rakes are the other main freight wagon type.

[nah00]

3 hours ago, bill937ca said:

 

Journalists and photographers joined the cargo train operated by JR freight. I ran 63.2 kilometers from "Tokyo Currency Terminal Station" to "Sagami Freight Station" in 96 minutes. This "scheduled operation" is an advantage of cargo, and is supported by breath-taking cooperation by a skilled operator and a "maneuver". Combined with the task of forklift pilots deeply loading and unloading containers at the arrival station, they will release the press for the first time. Purchase video material from here　

 

An HD300 and a DE11 in one video, please Tomix or Kato make them....

[Das Steinkopf]

The days of trip freights is pretty much dead, there are still a number of industries that have rail connections but this is mainly for bulk traffic, at the smallest you are looking at trains that are between 5 to 7 KoKi's in length and hauled by a DE 10 variant. These days the general mode of operation is the trains travelling to a freight terminal in or near a regional city, trucks ranging in size from 4 ton to 12 ton then cart the containers to their destination, you also have ports where the trucks will pick up the containers and then take them to the railyards to transport further inland. The days of loading and unloading boxcars/vans is long gone as it is to time consuming and ties up a piece of rolling stock for an unnecessary amount of time, it is far more efficient for the client or the shipping company they are engaging to pack a container, have it trucked to a freight yard and loaded onto a train, the container is then taken from the train and trucked to it's final destination where it is dropped off and unloaded.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Das Steinkopf

[disturbman]

9 hours ago, Nick_Burman said:

 In any case all services are/were from large industrial customers or container terminals (which needn't be gigantic...there is one in Kanagawa which is a solitary siding with a loading pad).

 

Interesting. Do you have a link or a name? I would like to look it up.

[Nick_Burman]

7 hours ago, disturbman said:

 

Interesting. Do you have a link or a name? I would like to look it up.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5305487,139.7702378,190m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

On the Kanagawa Rinkai Railway, west of Kojima yard. I think that the customer here is the City of Kawasaki and the commodity handled is domestic refuse.

 

Cheers Nicholas

[Nick_Burman]

8 hours ago, Das Steinkopf said:

The days of trip freights is pretty much dead, there are still a number of industries that have rail connections but this is mainly for bulk traffic, at the smallest you are looking at trains that are between 5 to 7 KoKi's in length and hauled by a DE 10 variant. These days the general mode of operation is the trains travelling to a freight terminal in or near a regional city, trucks ranging in size from 4 ton to 12 ton then cart the containers to their destination, you also have ports where the trucks will pick up the containers and then take them to the railyards to transport further inland. The days of loading and unloading boxcars/vans is long gone as it is to time consuming and ties up a piece of rolling stock for an unnecessary amount of time, it is far more efficient for the client or the shipping company they are engaging to pack a container, have it trucked to a freight yard and loaded onto a train, the container is then taken from the train and trucked to it's final destination where it is dropped off and unloaded.

 

Let it be said that JRF will allow loading/unloading of containers while they are still on top of the flatcars. And they will shunt container wagons into private sidings, provided there is enough traffic to justify it...like at Mizusawa Industrial Chemicals, for instance...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFldADfvWtY

Note that the tanktainers are being loaded directly on the flat wagons, just like a tank car...

 

Cheers NB

Edited March 6, 2019 by Nick_Burman

[ben_issacs]

Folks,

What happened in Japan in 1987 was the change of the railways from 'Common Carrier' to a more limited role.

A 'Common Carrier' railway had to carry anything that its customers offered, which is why before 1987 JNR had cattle trucks, bogie flat cars for timber and other long loads, refrigerator cars, ventilated vans for fruit traffic, grain hoppers, heavy load vehicles and the usual open waggons and vans.

So, if you're pre 1987, you can run the eclectic variety of freight stock that you like, after that time it's basically containers, limestone and cement hoppers and tank waggons.

After all, it's your railway, so you can do whatever you like with it.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

[Pashina12]

Wow, cool to see someone linking my thread for the information of others! 😄

 

So, everyone's already talked about the way things changed in terms of freight traffic since 1987, so instead of that I'll just make a few observations on *how* I understand the workings of branch line freight traffic back in the day...

 

Basically, a long-distance freight train would be taking "blocks" of cars to/from various 'major' stations along its route, to be picked up by the local job(s)... the way I understand the Aizu Line so far, a downwards train would take that block from Aizu-Wakamatsu (the starting point of the Aizu Line, where it connected to the Ban'etsu West Line), dropping those cars off where they need to be, and picking up cars already there (empty or filled as the case may be), finishing up at Aizu-Tajima with a full train of cars. Then that full train would later become the return trip, which would do no work along the way, but go straight back to Aizu-Wakamatsu. Now, this is applicable to a branch line where there are multiple stops to be made. If the branch has only one station, he'd just take the cars to the destination, pick the returning cars up, and bring them back to the major station for the next appropriate long-distance train to pick them up.

 

So basically, to answer your original question, not only does it make sense, but it's pretty much how things were done back in the days before 1987. Now, as everyone said, it's your railway, you can do as you like, but if you're set around 2010, I'd probably go for blue WaMu 80000s for the boxcars. I couldn't say what to use for gondolas, as my knowledge of JNR equipment ends in the late 1970s...