Running TOMIX trains on KATO tracks

[brill27mcb]

It's probably time for a moderator to split this thread into two, since the discussion changed to a new topic ( I suggest "Issues with Kato Slotless Motor's Strong Magnetism") on Nov. 29 (the bottom of Page 1 for me). Otherwise we'll never be able to find it again in the future.

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

Done, the discussion of Kato slotless motors and Tomix points has been spit off to a new topic.

 

jeff

 

 

[ATShinkansen]

One observation from my own experience I would like to add to the Tomix/Kato compatibility is that I have noticed that Finetrack is slightly narrower in gauge than Unitrack.  This doesn’t affect the trains themselves’ ability to run, but it’s enough to interfere with attempting to use a Kato rerailer ramp or clearance gauge on Finetrack.

[kndy]

I run a lot of TOMIX, KATO and Modemo trains on both KATO and TOMIX tracks.    My main observation, anything that uses a triple bogie for a TOMIX train, the center bogie for a TOMIX train will often fail at times on KATO tracks.  Takes a lot of fiddling around in my opinion and sometimes I'll just remove that center bogie to run right on a KATO track.

 

 

But in a general sense, TOMIX trains do much better on TOMIX tracks.  TOMIX trains on KATO tracks, I tend to lose a lot of couplers (or somehow something gets caught and the bottom portion housing the coupler is pulled out and resulting in derailing. Light TOMIX trains (larger setup), I tend to have issues on KATO tracks vs. TOMIX tracks, but I add a yen coin inside of it to put a little weight at times.  Also, TOMIX LED's on TOMIX trains that are not positioned well, will often throw a Standard SX power controller to reset mode until its fixed.

 

KATO trains work great on both TOMIX and KATO tracks (unless your TOMIX switch gets switched due to the magnet).  I prefer to run KATO Shinkansen on the TOMIX double track.

 

Modemo trains work on both, but find it to be much smoother with TOMIX tracks than KATO tracks.

 

Again, this is for my setup, my experience with many, many, many different types of trains.  Everyone's experience may be different.

 

With that being said, on my 6-line diorama I run more TOMIX tracks than KATO Tracks.  I own a ton of KATO tracks but there are some shorter sizes and angles which I prefer from TOMIX and I just feel that things run much smoother on TOMIX tracks.  [NOTE: I own more KATO trains than TOMIX or Modemo].

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by kndy

[cteno4]

Ive never noticed a difference with Kato, Tomix, greenmax, modemo, or microace trains on Unitrak. I have several hundred trains I have plus our club members over the years. Most center bogie issues I’ve ever see is usually the down pressure spring some have can slightly twist the truck and thus causing it to derail on a bad track joint or point flangeway. My experience with Tomix track is much more limited to tight radius track, but only issue there is more of longer cars just not liking the tight radius curves, but understandable.

 

jeff

[disturbman]

5 hours ago, kndy said:

TOMIX trains on KATO tracks, I tend to lose a lot of couplers (or somehow something gets caught and the bottom portion housing the coupler is pulled out and resulting in derailing. Light TOMIX trains (larger setup)

Can you clarify what you mean? Don't take it the wrong way but this sounds to me like a "user" issue rather than a generic Unitrak issue. I have been in the hobby for a long time now and no such issues has ever been reported. Do you swap couplers? Or does the derailing happen at a precise location on your track? What kind of trains/wagons are concerned?

What I has been reported though, is that on some type of wagons, Kato and Tomix couplers have different heights which can lead to derailments on uneven tracks or on inclines.

The only difference I ever noticed between Kato and Tomix is set up, is that the Kato PMW pulse sometimes creates a parasitic noise in some models.
 

5 hours ago, kndy said:

TOMIX LED's on TOMIX trains that are not positioned well, will often throw a Standard SX power controller to reset mode until its fixed.

Do you mean interior lights?

[Yavianice]

I have KATO and Tomix track, and many trains from many manufacturers, in my opinion everything works best on KATO track. The only exception are some steam in combination with #4 switches, but that’s more an issue with the switches than the train. And the new motor from KATO on TOMIX track, but this can be helped; KATO even sells parts to mitigate that problem.

 

Power packs are a totally different story. I own all TOMIX and KATO controllers. Some trains just don’t run well on KATO power packs, even KATO trains. And I tried all of them. I found TOMIX to be the most reliable PWM power pack, and for normal duties, the KATO S power pack works the best.

 

in my experience there is no difference with interior light besides the obvious caveat of not using bulb lights for PWM.

 

your tripping of the KATO controller with TOMIX lights, could be due to the fact that the spring mechanism isn’t always properly isolated when you install TOMIX lights into trains, especially if you don’t cut them to length properly. This would result in a short, and KATO controllers are more sensitive to those. Best is to check if the lights are properly installed, or your train will melt.

[Yavaris Forge]

4 hours ago, Yavianice said:

obvious caveat of not using bulb lights for PWM

kinda OT, but why do light bulbs not like PWM? I thought they didn't care about the frequent interruptions of the PWM signal.

Thinking about changing my old transformer (Arnold) to something more modern (Tomix perhaps) should it brake down.

[kndy]

8 hours ago, disturbman said:

Can you clarify what you mean? Don't take it the wrong way but this sounds to me like a "user" issue rather than a generic Unitrak issue. I have been in the hobby for a long time now and no such issues has ever been reported. Do you swap couplers? Or does the derailing happen at a precise location on your track? What kind of trains/wagons are concerned?

What I has been reported though, is that on some type of wagons, Kato and Tomix couplers have different heights which can lead to derailments on uneven tracks or on inclines.

The only difference I ever noticed between Kato and Tomix is set up, is that the Kato PMW pulse sometimes creates a parasitic noise in some models.
--

Do you mean interior lights?  

More than likely it could definitely be a user issue.

 

No, precise location.  But I will say, there were twos instance where I had several KATO truss bridges where I did notice two trains lose their coupler upon entry of the bridge.  It was a bit mystifying because I could have 40-50 different trains (KATO, TOMIX and Modemo) going through it just fine and two didn't work out so well.

 

These are stock couplers which I put them back on, some that I have had to replace.  As for trains/wagons, I've seen it happen with my TOMIX freight trains to even most recently a coupling for my Narita Express train.    But that being said, I tend to do a lot of speed tests on my trains, as I like to see how they run at slow to high speed.    

 

Yeah, Interior lights.

Edited March 20, 2023 by kndy

[kndy]

7 hours ago, Yavianice said:

I have KATO and Tomix track, and many trains from many manufacturers, in my opinion everything works best on KATO track. The only exception are some steam in combination with #4 switches, but that’s more an issue with the switches than the train. And the new motor from KATO on TOMIX track, but this can be helped; KATO even sells parts to mitigate that problem.

 

Power packs are a totally different story. I own all TOMIX and KATO controllers. Some trains just don’t run well on KATO power packs, even KATO trains. And I tried all of them. I found TOMIX to be the most reliable PWM power pack, and for normal duties, the KATO S power pack works the best.

 

in my experience there is no difference with interior light besides the obvious caveat of not using bulb lights for PWM.

 

your tripping of the KATO controller with TOMIX lights, could be due to the fact that the spring mechanism isn’t always properly isolated when you install TOMIX lights into trains, especially if you don’t cut them to length properly. This would result in a short, and KATO controllers are more sensitive to those. Best is to check if the lights are properly installed, or your train will melt.

 

I also use TOMIX power packs more than KATO but as you mentioned, for normal duties that KATO S Power Pack works best.    Although, there are some power packs made by other companies that I have considered trying out (I see them all the time in the RM Models Magazine).  

 

Actually in my case, it was more about seating and making sure that top train is pushed down completely.  I didn't want to force things too much and have something break on me (Note: In the past, busted a few pantagraphs that way, blame my sausage fingers for that...lol).

 

But I guess if anything, the KATO reset light going off is a good warning that things are not right.  So, I guess that is a very big positive of a KATO power controller.

[kndy]

11 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Ive never noticed a difference with Kato, Tomix, greenmax, modemo, or microace trains on Unitrak. I have several hundred trains I have plus our club members over the years. Most center bogie issues I’ve ever see is usually the down pressure spring some have can slightly twist the truck and thus causing it to derail on a bad track joint or point flangeway. My experience with Tomix track is much more limited to tight radius track, but only issue there is more of longer cars just not liking the tight radius curves, but understandable.

 

jeff

 

I am not sure about Greenmax or Micro Ace, but I prefer KATO's trains when it comes to center bogies versus TOMIX trains.  I have noticed on few Japanese YouTube videos of some users just removing that center bogie to make their TOMIX trains run right on tracks.  And I've done it before and it works, but my OCD has me putting it back immediately because it just doesn't look right without it.

[cteno4]

I’ve only had issues a couple of times with center bogies (at this point I can’t recall if it was Kato and/or Tomix models)  and like I mentioned these models had the down pressure springs and it was solved by making sure the down pressure spring was not twisting the truck at all. 
 

Might also check the wheel gauges on the center truck, I’ve had out of gauge floating leading and trailing wheel sets on steam engines be knocked in a fair amounts which caused them to ride oddly and derail. Were the issues happening at specific locations most of the time? This is the case I have has with some steamer floating trucks and it’s helped me find some minor track flaws that most trains ignored but were easily fixed.

 

I’ve never focused on any one brand to collect, been more of who had what I wanted or some specific feature, detailing, etc, so I ended up with a very diverse collection of trains and over all I don’t see much overall differences. There have been a few problem children for each brand, but nothing I could say was a lot worse than others overall. My dyslexic brain doesn’t remember specific details well until it starts to see a pattern then it kicks in and no real patters felt in 25 or so years of Japanese trains.

 

jeff