A Hobby Search translation problem.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

I use Hobby Search frequently, and by now can generally make my way around their 'machine' translations of Japanese into English.

However there are a couple of phrases that confuse me.

These are 'iron kite' and the similar 'iron core'.

'Iron' is obviously 'tetsudo', but what are ''kite' and 'core'.

Machine translations of Japanese into English can  provide some entertaining but confusing translations. 

Reading the original Japanese text would provide an answer, but that is beyond me.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[Kiha66]

If you remove the /eng from the page address bar it will give you the Japanese version.  If you run the sentence you're confused about through google translate it may give you a better translation.  If that fails can you share the link to the pages and areas that you are confused by, and perhaps a fluent user here could assist?  It is much easier to figure out the meaning with context.

[bill937ca]

Iron core is a common translation of the (Tomytec) Railway Collection

 

This layout page translates to iron core layout.  http://e231green.way-nifty.com/rail/2007/05/post_43f5.html

 

This one translates to Iron Collector.   https://railway-models.net/201511/846/

Edited February 1, 2019 by bill937ca

[katoftw]

I don't think it is a huge problem.  Yes google translate isn't prefect.  But you just read the text and if something isn't quite right.  The context of the words in the sentence/paragraph normally allow you to figure out the correct meaning.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

Thanks for your comments.

Often, reading the context as printed isn't much help.

In bill937ca's post, the Tomytec web site uses 'Iron Collector', 'Iron Coil' and 'Iron Kore'.

I suspect that they are all variations of  'Railway Collection', with Railway going to Tetsudo, thence to Iron.

Normally, the English 'L' sound is difficult for Japanese to pronounce, and is often given as a slurred 'R', which would explain 'Kore'

But, 'L" does appear in much Anglicised Japanese text, examples: "Dr. Yellow', 'Hello, Kitty', 'SL", so there are obviously now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan.

All part of the fun and challenges of Japanese model railways.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[chadbag]

8 minutes ago, ben_issacs said:

Normally, the English 'L' sound is difficult for Japanese to pronounce, and is often given as a slurred 'R', which would explain 'Kore'

But, 'L" does appear in much Anglicised Japanese text, examples: "Dr. Yellow', 'Hello, Kitty', 'SL", so there are obviously now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan.

 

 

"Dr. Yellow", "Hello Kitty" etc are NOT Anglicized Japanese text.  They are foreign words written in roman letters used in Japan.   Both "L" and "R" are pronounced about the same way by most people in Japan, and so translation programs will use R or L according to however they were programmed (mostly "R") if they are doing it in a transcribing fashion (versus a vocabulary lookup).  "Dr. Yellow" and "Hello Kitty" being written out with "L" does not imply there is "now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan".  It just means they are writing foreign words with known spellings using roman letters.

 

 

[cteno4]

bill the iron core, iron coil, etc are just artifacts of the translation program being used. its total artifact of how they do translations and nothing to do with what the sites are actually using in japanese. languages vary on grammar, word usage, multiple meanings that are set by context, etc and rules are murky so translation is a real art that machine translators still has not really nailed.

 

jeff

[chadbag]

3 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

bill the iron core, iron coil, etc are just artifacts of the translation program being used. its total artifact of how they do translations. languages vary on grammar, word usage, multiple meanings that are set by context, etc and rules are murky so translation is a real art that machine translators still has not really nailed.

 

 

Yeah, just go see how Amazon.co.jp translates some of the descriptions and names of certain sorts of rail cars from Tomix, KATO, etc.

[Tanuki]

As Chadbag, noted, these are just artefacts of translation of abbreviations. Japanese often abbreviates longer terms for convenience, so personal computer (パソナルコンプタ) becomes pasacon (パサコン). What has happened here is that railway collection (鉄道コレクション) becomes 鉄コレ and the machine translation can’t parse the abbreviation, reading 鉄 as “iron” which is the meaning of the character by itself. 

 

It is good to keep in mind that the Japanese sound represented in Latin alphabet as L or R actually lies in between those English sounds and is neither of them.

[nah00]

Don't even get started on what 'pantograph' sometimes gets translated to...

[VentureForth]

On 2/2/2019 at 5:11 AM, Tanuki said:

It is good to keep in mind that the Japanese sound represented in Latin alphabet as L or R actually lies in between those English sounds and is neither of them.

 

Way back when, I was taught as a kid that an "r" sound has your tongue in the back of your mouth and "L" puts your tongue right at the back of your teeth. Try saying "rail". Your tongue moved from the roof to your teeth. The Japanese "rla" or "ら" series actually put your tongue behind your top teeth where the roof of your mouth starts to turn up. Try saying "rail" this time with your tongue there and without moving it.

 

It ain't perfect, but it demonstrates how it is completely unique from Ls or Rs.

Edited February 18, 2019 by VentureForth

[railsquid]

On 2/2/2019 at 7:11 PM, Tanuki said:

As Chadbag, noted, these are just artefacts of translation of abbreviations. Japanese often abbreviates longer terms for convenience, so personal computer (パソナルコンプタ) becomes pasacon (パサコン).

 

In the interests of correctness: "パーソナルコンピュータ" and "パソコン" (pasokon).

 

 

[Tanuki]

11 hours ago, railsquid said:

 

In the interests of correctness: "パーソナルコンピュータ" and "パソコン" (pasokon).

 

 

My bad. It’s been a while...

[ben_issacs]

Folks,

HS has recently advertised a Kato  'Tsuguru" sleeping car train in a double set, 

This train ran Osaka-Toyama and v.v. in the 80's

Looking at the 'knitting (what a nice description) diagram' of the five car set, I find amongst the usual  OHaNe's a car designated as 'Cocoon"!

'Cocoon', what the blazes is that?

Fiddling around with another diagram, 'Cocoon' turns out to be a postal car, OYu (I think, because HS no longer has this set shown on its web site)

I wonder if 'oyu', as the mechanical translating system read it, does mean 'cocoon'?

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[railsquid]

That would be "mayu" (繭, "cocoon") being mistranslated for "MaYu" (マユ) the postal car.

Edited October 12, 2019 by railsquid

[ben_issacs]

Railsquid, 

Ta for that, I'd guessed at O, but most postal cars are heavy enough for Ma.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.