Concrete Slab vs Concrete Ties vs Wooden Ties

[chadbag]

So KATO makes track that has wooden ties/sleepers (hereafter "ties"), track that has concrete ties, and then concrete slab track.

 

From a prototype perspective, when is each track appropriate?   Mostly in the Japanese sense but also for Europe (Germany/Switzerland/Austria mainly)

 

[EdF]

I think Japan eliminated wood ties a few years ago, saw something on a Japanese Railway Journal show.  I've seen the slab in JR stations, Shinkansen and interurban on YouTube.  I know the kato wood ties are also quite spread out, more than NA usage, but Europe it think runs lower axle load, so maybe it would be prototypical there too.

 

I am pretty sure that the wood ties were just required to be replaced on revenue lines, probably not yards, maybe not even storage sidings.

Edited January 9, 2019 by ecfitzgerald

[katoftw]

Plenty of wodden ties still in japan.

 

I'll generalize in my response...

 

Wooden ties for old rural lines

Concrete ties for urban lines

Slab for elevated or underground lines.

Edited January 9, 2019 by katoftw

[railsquid]

2 hours ago, katoftw said:

Plenty of wodden ties still in japan.

 

I'll generalize in my response...

 

Wooden ties for old rural lines

Concrete ties for urban lines

Slab for elevated or underground lines.

 

I'll be a bit more specific on that last one: it's a mixture, I'd say as a rule-of-thumb, the older the elevated or underground line is, the more likely it is to have conventional ballast and concrete sleepers.

 

Here's the point on the Joetsu Shinkansen where it changes from sleepers to slab:

 

https://www.google.co.jp/maps/@36.0157816,139.5980199,58m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=ja

 

 

[Kiha66]

Not super helpful in regards to the use of kato track, but quite a few rural lines now use a mix of concrete and wood ties.  Back in 2015 I remember the Omura line in Nagasaki had concrete ties every third to fifth tie.  Seems that concrete is slowly being phased in for places where a full rebuild isn't warranted by the limited use.  I also remember seeing that the JR freight line in Yokohama had wooden ties while the JR lines were much more modernized.  

[railsquid]

4 hours ago, railsquid said:

I'll be a bit more specific on that last one: it's a mixture, I'd say as a rule-of-thumb, the older the elevated or underground line is, the more likely it is to have conventional ballast and concrete sleepers.

 

 

Also, it's not a given that a newer elevated line will be slab track; the relatively recent elevated Chuo line sections west of Mitaka, and the Odakyu line west of Shimokitazawa are concrete sleeper/ballast.

[Misha_K]

22 hours ago, chadbag said:

Mostly in the Japanese sense but also for Europe (Germany/Switzerland/Austria mainly) 

 

In Germany, pretty much all main lines use concrete ties these days, though wooden ties may persist on some lightly used rural branch lines. Dedicated, new build high speed tracks (Neubaustrecke - NBS), such as the Frankfurt-Cologne high speed line, use concrete slab track. (see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RliY_YyldJQ) Some underground track systems in Germany (S-Bahn or U-Bahn) may also use concrete slab systems.

 

 

[VentureForth]

I kinda get an optical illusion with the concrete ties with ballast on elevated tracks.  It almost looks like the "wooden tie" track would work because in real life, the space between the concrete ties - the ballast - seem to be darker than the ties themselves.  Almost a negative of a positive. Of a negative. Or something like that...

[Cat]

Query on a few specific lines for modelling; from photos and cab ride videos, it's not easy to tell exactly but my current guesses are:
 
Joban Line from Mito to Katsuta stations = concrete sleepers.

 

Kashima Seaside Railway and Hitachinaka Seaside Railway  = wooden sleepers.

Can any one confirm or correct this please?

Edited January 21, 2020 by Cat

[Das Steinkopf]

I will also add to Ian's comment regarding Shinkansen lines, the vast bulk of stations have ballast and concrete sleepers and transition to concrete slab a couple of hundred metres each side of the station especially on the Tokaido and Sanyo Shinkansen lines, there are some stations however which have their tracks mounted on slab such as Kanazawa. When you have a look at the track of passing stations where they have a loop for stopping services such as Sakura or Kodama the through tracks for express services that sit between the loops have bracing that looks akin to a massive steel ladder to ensure the track is held firmly in position. Here is a photo I took in 2015, from memory I think it was at Himeji.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Das Steinkopf

[Cat]

I've done some more google-fu with my morning coffee today.
 

At Katsuta Station:
Hitachinaka definitely looks like wooden sleepers: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hitachinaka-seaside-railway-Katsuta-station-platform.jpg
And the Joban Line looks like concrete: https://www.dreamstime.com/editorial-image-limited-express-train-hitachi-katsuta-station-ibaraki-japan-april-use-e-series-operated-jr-east-image76322975

Also, along the Minato Line of the Hitachinaka after the 2011 earthquake(!):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minato_Line#/media/File:Hitachinaka_kaihin_railway_minato_line_no2.JPG

With Kashima Rinkai photos, I always go back and forth thinking they might be either concrete because they look a little bowed, or the bowing might be an optical illusion created by the ballast, the dust from the red ballast also gives it a wood-like colour whatever the actual material is: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ōarai_Kashima_Line
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kashima_rinkai_Railway-kiha6000_Ōarai_Station.JPG
 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Cat

[nah00]

The Kashima Rinkai ones in the foreground are concrete, the bowing is a giveaway on them. Hard to tell on the middle line but they look like wood and they are spaced slightly different.