Original Tomix Turntable with New Power Pack

[VentureForth]

OK.  I'm just a LITTLE bit excited!  After nearly 30 years and hemming and hawing about it, I finally broke down and ACCIDENTALLY bought a second generation Tomix Turntable (1611) - MINT IN BOX!  I don't even know if my layout can handle it yet, but I'll make it fit.

 

So here is my question.  I have a DU-101 CL powerpack.  Will this turntable plug right in or will I have to do some mods?  Or, are there conversion kits?  I"m already uptight (OCD) that I'll have a black power pack, a blue switch box and a green turntable knob.  But I'm excited.

 

What can I expect as far as connectivity goes?

 

Also, as a history buff, what's the difference between the 1601, 1611, 1621, 1631 and 1633 turntables?

 

Thanks!  

[kvp]

2 hours ago, VentureForth said:

What can I expect as far as connectivity goes?

 

Also, as a history buff, what's the difference between the 1601, 1611, 1621, 1631 and 1633 turntables?

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/control/tomix_turntables.htm

 

The track power from any controller should be useble with an adapter wire, but i'm not sure a modern controller could provide the required auxiliary power. As far as i see, this old variant has no automatic keying, so it needs a manual stop at the right moment.

 

(automatic keying turntables have an alignement sensor and keep moving in the selected direction until they align up with a valid track position or the emergency stop is activated)

[cteno4]

Maybe one of the richs will know, they are the old stuff Tomix history...

 

jeff

[VentureForth]

Yeah, I found that link after posting. Good stuff, that guy writes. My neighbor who always had the good stuff had one of these. The alignment didn't matter. Even in the very beginning, I think he had the 01, if you twisted left and let go, it would stop at the next detent. Best part about these is that they carry power to the active line like switches. You come in on the master line, align with the right barn, and drive into it until you hit the back stop and the door closes. When you unalign the table, there is no more power, allowing you to align with another track to pull that loco out.

 

It's all part of the coolness Tomix developed before DCC.

 

So it looks like this has the brown wire that is tinned and held into place on the power pack side by spring loaded receptacles. The extension wire is hard to find... For cheap...

Edited December 8, 2018 by VentureForth

[kvp]

11 hours ago, VentureForth said:

The extension wire is hard to find... For cheap...

I would suggest a screw terminal and stripping/tinning the end of a modern cable with the neo plug left on the other end for the modern power pack.

 

Afaik the power routing is done by two sliding contact pairs in the bridge. For this to work, the entry track should not be aligned with any of the storage tracks and two storage tracks could not face each other and be occupied at the same time. Adding isolators fixes it but the cool automagic power routing is lost then.

[bill937ca]

More info on the Tomix turntable from a Japanese website.

 

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/nbgn_18.htm

 

In Google Chrome right click to translate to English.

 

Kato turntable here: http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/nbgn_19.htm

[VentureForth]

13 hours ago, bill937ca said:

More info on the Tomix turntable from a Japanese website.

 

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/nbgn_18.htm

 

In Google Chrome right click to translate to English.

 

Kato turntable here: http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/nbgn_19.htm

Neat stuff.  Interestingly, the previous page discussed gradients which was another issue I was having trouble with.  Though, this didn't help.  Just said essentially that Kato also does 3% grades.

[VentureForth]

Got this in the mail yesterday.  Very fun.  I scanned the manual, but the pages are not all in order.  It's 14 MB, so bigger than what I'm allowed to post in here.  I want to clean it up a bit.  Maybe I'll rescan.  Any suggestions on where to publicly post?

 

So it was advertised as new, but it certainly wasn't.  Good news is that it came with a lot of extra pass through rails, so I can almost electrify the whole circle!  

 

To answer kvp from a previous post...

 

On 12/8/2018 at 3:58 PM, kvp said:

As far as i see, this old variant has no automatic keying, so it needs a manual stop at the right moment.

 

(automatic keying turntables have an alignement sensor and keep moving in the selected direction until they align up with a valid track position or the emergency stop is activated)

 

This has a mechanical spring so it locks when it's perfectly aligned.  I think this puts extra stress on the motor.  The left right dial turns the table, and when it locks, you can let go and proceed.  You don't need to be accurate on the dial like in real life alignment.

 

So here's my scare.  This is obviously a 30 year old unit.  I took it slightly apart to look at the gears.  It's not very strong when activated in one direction but better in the other.  You almost have to overcome the torque of the mechanical spring, or else it'll stall.  I don't know if a new motor would fix that, but I put laBelle 108 all over everything that moved.

 

The gap track and the method by which the power is transferred to the stubs is very simple yet interesting.  Love that fact that I can park up to 22 locos, all using conventional DC.

 

The one thing that seems intuitive that really isn't is that you can't just turn a loco 180--degrees on the table and bring it back out.  That'll turn the polarity backwards.  But you can pass a loco through, turn the table 180, then bring the loco back and turn the next 180 to turn an engine around.  Again, makes sense electrically, just not to a kid operationally.

 

Anyway, I'm still pretty excited.  If someone has a suggestion about the motor, please let me know.

 

Hey... Got the file compressed.

Tomix_1611-min.pdf

Edited December 15, 2018 by VentureForth

[VentureForth]

OK.  Now that I've had some time to play with this, I'm coming up on a couple issues.  First, I need to split the DC feeder out of my NEO power pack to serve both the track feed and the turntable (for those unfamiliar, this provides the same level of track power on the turntable side of the gap track).

 

Does Tomix make a splitter or will I have to create one on my own?  Also, I tried using a 2nd power pack on the turntable side, but that was just dumb.

[katoftw]

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10010012

[VentureForth]

I saw that, but without the packaging I thought it was just something someone spliced together themselves.  :D

[VentureForth]

I've taken this turntable completely apart and reassembled, lubing everything in the process.  Now it seems to chug even slower - there seems to be a lot of stress when I try to turn the table and it's constantly getting stuck.  I can't figure out where the binding is happening.  I've even lubed the plastic snap tabs and springs.  I don't know where else I can reduce resistance.  Also, the points don't like making contact when the tracks are aligned.  Sheesh - this is a lot of work.  Argh!!

[VentureForth]

 

Turn the volume all the way up to hear the moaning motor.  I wouldn't know where to begin troubleshooting the power.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by VentureForth

[VentureForth]

OK - Been playing around with this a little more.  I have no idea what any of this means, but maybe someone in here with a little more electrical background can help me out.

 

So, again, I have the old 1611 turntable (1611 AT212-15).  It comes with a green controller with a spring loaded knob for CW/CCW operation.  I plug the green connectors to the AC terminals of my Bachmann controller (we'll get to the Neo later).  The brown connectors plug into the DC terminals along with the track power.  I assume that the green controls the turntable, and brown controls the track power on the turntable side of the gap track.

 

The AC terminals on the Bachmann Power Pack puts out 18V (AC?).  But, when I check the motor leads under the turn table bed, I get either 35V AC when I operate the knob one way and 0 the other way, and when I switch the leads, I get the opposite.  Interestingly, if I put my multimeter on DC, I get -18V in one direction, +18V in the other direction.

 

So several questions:

1) Do I have the green wires hooked up right?

2) Am I getting enough power to the motor with the values listed above?

3) Seems like I just don't have any torque.  Any suggestions?

4) How can I hook this up to my NEO power pack?  The black plug (TCS?) on the back is DC, I think.  If I need AC, how can I power through the the powered switch?  Or is that how I'd do this?

 

For what it's worth, the track power is fine inside the turntable.  I just can't get the thing to spin.  It has done well, but let it sit for a while and it's dead.  Can I get a replacement motor?  Would it help?

 

This is the innards of the controller.  Not much there.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by VentureForth

[VentureForth]

If no one here has an answer, is there anyone who has access to Japanese forums who can ask the question?

[fhmac]

Venture Forth ... have you found a solution to your turntable malfunctioning?