Anyone ever contemplated a train ferry

[DanielMackay]

Has anyone contemplated or executed a train ferry in their layout? I've built two in the course of my 1:700 naval modeling (not sure which former routes) (These were limited-run resin kits purchased through Hobby Link Japan.). 

 

From Wiki: 

In Japanese, a train ferry is called "鉄道連絡船 tetsudō renrakusen", which means literally "railway connection ship". Such ships may or may not be able to carry railcars. A ferry service that is part of a railway schedule and its fare system is called "tetsudō renrakusen".

 

Japan Railways linked the four main Japanese islands with train ferries before these were replaced by bridges and tunnels.

 

There were three ferry services that carried trains. Through operations of passenger trains using train ferries were conducted between December 1948 and 11 May 1955. The passenger services was canceled after the disasters of Toya Maru (26 September 1954, killed 1,153) and the Shiun Maru (11 May 1955, killed 168) occurred, after which the Japanese National Railways (JNR) considered it dangerous to allow passengers to stay on trains aboard ship.

 

These three lines have been replaced by tunnels and bridges.

Seikan Ferry

The Seikan ferry connected Aomori Station and Hakodate Station crossing the Tsugaru Strait connecting Honshū and Hokkaidō. The first full-scale train ferry, Shōhō Maru, entered service in April, 1924. On 13 March 1988, the Seikan Tunnelwas opened and the ferry ceased operation. The tunnel and the ferry line was operated simultaneously only on that day.

 

Ukō Ferry

The Ukō ferry connected Uno station and Takamatsu station crossing the Seto Inland Sea connecting Honshū and Shikoku. The ferry service started carrying railcars on 10 October 1921. On 9 April 1988, the Great Seto Bridge was opened and the last train ferry operated on the previous day.

 

Kammon Ferry

The Kammon ferry connected Shimonoseki Station and Mojikō Station crossing the Kanmon Strait connecting Honshū and Kyūshū. This was the first train ferry service in Japan starting operation on 1 October 1911. The train ferries used piers at Komorie station. After the completion of the Kanmon Tunnel on 1 July 1942, the service was discontinued and the ferries were transferred to the Ukō Ferry operation.

 

A quick assessment is that a scratch-built model and dedicated port facilities would take up a 1x3 foot space at minimum -  a fair amount of space to dedicate to an industry or terminus on one's N-scale layout.

 

 

[kvp]

1 hour ago, DanielMackay said:

A quick assessment is that a scratch-built model and dedicated port facilities would take up a 1x3 foot space at minimum -  a fair amount of space to dedicate to an industry or terminus on one's N-scale layout.

While it's large if fully built, i find it a great way as an entering point into a fiddle yard or external casette storage. In this case, only the back of the ship has to be built, with the loading ramp and the rest of the ship is the fiddle yard. Also it's quite normal that different cars go into the ship and come out when it returns, so it doesn't even look strange from an operational standpoint.

 

Adding a fully built ship is hard, especially having access to replace the cars. If the model is large enough, a full rotating lift storage system could be built into the ship, with the bulk of the storage loop placed under the layout. It could also be used as an entry point for an under the layout storage via a ramp that is hidden by the ship model.

 

One problem is the time frame. For passenger oprations, the end date seems to be 1955, while for freight operations 1988, the latter fitting a longer timespan up to the end of the JNR.

[Welshbloke]

I believe one of the old train ferries has been turned into a museum, loaded with examples of stock it would have carried in service?

[katoftw]

2 hours ago, Welshbloke said:

I believe one of the old train ferries has been turned into a museum, loaded with examples of stock it would have carried in service?

Hakodate ferry. On the Aomori side of the straight.

[beakaboy]

On 11/4/2018 at 12:41 AM, DanielMackay said:

Has anyone contemplated or executed a train ferry in their layout? I've built two in the course of my 1:700 naval modeling (not sure which former routes) (These were limited-run resin kits purchased through Hobby Link Japan.). 

 

From Wiki: 

In Japanese, a train ferry is called "鉄道連絡船 tetsudō renrakusen", which means literally "railway connection ship". Such ships may or may not be able to carry railcars. A ferry service that is part of a railway schedule and its fare system is called "tetsudō renrakusen".

 

Japan Railways linked the four main Japanese islands with train ferries before these were replaced by bridges and tunnels.

 

There were three ferry services that carried trains. Through operations of passenger trains using train ferries were conducted between December 1948 and 11 May 1955. The passenger services was canceled after the disasters of Toya Maru (26 September 1954, killed 1,153) and the Shiun Maru (11 May 1955, killed 168) occurred, after which the Japanese National Railways (JNR) considered it dangerous to allow passengers to stay on trains aboard ship.

 

These three lines have been replaced by tunnels and bridges.

Seikan Ferry

The Seikan ferry connected Aomori Station and Hakodate Station crossing the Tsugaru Strait connecting Honshū and Hokkaidō. The first full-scale train ferry, Shōhō Maru, entered service in April, 1924. On 13 March 1988, the Seikan Tunnelwas opened and the ferry ceased operation. The tunnel and the ferry line was operated simultaneously only on that day.

 

Ukō Ferry

The Ukō ferry connected Uno station and Takamatsu station crossing the Seto Inland Sea connecting Honshū and Shikoku. The ferry service started carrying railcars on 10 October 1921. On 9 April 1988, the Great Seto Bridge was opened and the last train ferry operated on the previous day.

 

Kammon Ferry

The Kammon ferry connected Shimonoseki Station and Mojikō Station crossing the Kanmon Strait connecting Honshū and Kyūshū. This was the first train ferry service in Japan starting operation on 1 October 1911. The train ferries used piers at Komorie station. After the completion of the Kanmon Tunnel on 1 July 1942, the service was discontinued and the ferries were transferred to the Ukō Ferry operation.

 

A quick assessment is that a scratch-built model and dedicated port facilities would take up a 1x3 foot space at minimum -  a fair amount of space to dedicate to an industry or terminus on one's N-scale layout.

 

 

I'm planning one on my TT layout which will be in Picton harbour at the top of the south island of New Zealand. I plan to have it so the top of the ferry can be lifted off for access. Also will install lighting in the rail area of the ship. The module has been started, but progress has been very slow with so many other projects and also working out materials suitable for build,etc. I have scale plans of the ferry which operated from 1960's to 1980's from memory. The newest rail ferry is out of action at present getting referbished, repaired or similar. They have been unloading containers off rail wagons and running them on ship with special container truck trailers with small special built tractor units.

[Welshbloke]

12 hours ago, katoftw said:

Hakodate ferry. On the Aomori side of the straight.

Armed with this information I found she's the Hakkoda Maru. Hopefully they've added a dehumidifier to stop the exhibits on the train deck dissolving in the salt air.

[Kiha66]

The Hakkoda Maru in Aomori and the Mashu Maru in Hakodate are the last JNR Seikan ferries that are preserved.  The Yotei Maru was also preserved in Tokyo at the Maritime Museum  until she was scrapped in 2013 rather than pay for restoration.  Some other ferries have been sold to other countries where they are rebuilt with the rails removed, although by now most have been scrapped from these second lives as well.

On the modeling side I saw pictures a few years back from a JAM where a modular group had a pair of modules, where one end would have the train enter the ferry where the train would then go into some hidden track.  After some seemingly empty ocean module the final module would have a coast and hill, and the train would emerge from a tunnel portal ala the Seikan tunnel which replaced the ferries.  It was a neat effect.   Another group had two layouts with a ferry connecting them, it used the ferry mounted on a G gauge chassis which would take N scale trains from one terminal to the other.

[Kiha66]

There's a modeler I follow on twitter who does 1/700 models of various JNR/JGR ferries.  I would love to do a 1/150 model of the post war rebuilds if I can ever find the plans for them.

 

Also this video of the last JNR steam ferry, with sound and everything.  I'm amazed such good footage was taken, but I'm glad they decided to share it.

 

[Kiha66]

They also recently posted this plan of one of JNR's smaller post war ferries.  Twin shaft steam turbine with a bow rudder, which is an interesting arrangement.  

 

[Kiha66]

I also found a blog post which detailed the track diagrams for Aomori over the years.  (So to answer your question, I have thought about JNR marine operations a bit 😁)
http://senrohaisenzu.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/07/post-a38d.html

[DanielMackay]

Thank you to all for this extraordinary set of videos, links, track plans and information. Most intriguing!

[Welshbloke]

Bow rudders were standard for the Dover-Dunkerque ships too, as with the pure road vehicle ferries on the Dover Strait. Which led to amusing incidents such as a ferry dodging a fishermen's strike in one of the French ports by virtue of being able to proceed full astern while still having steering...

 

I'm not sure how many of the Dover ships survive. The later builds were designed on the basis that a channel tunnel was likely to happen, so they were able to carry road vehicles or trains. An upper deck lounge could be emptied of its seating and used as a car deck while in train ferry use. Most went off to further service in the Adriatic, often with oddments from their former lives such as SNCF embroidered blankets in the cabins.

 

The far larger Seafrance Nord Pas de Calais was the last train ferry on the route and was serving as a Ro-Ro freighter last time I saw her in around 2008, the Dover train ferry linkspan is long gone and the Dunkerque one converted for road use.

[AllScales]

On 11/5/2018 at 12:44 AM, beakaboy said:

I'm planning one on my TT layout which will be in Picton harbour at the top of the south island of New Zealand. I plan to have it so the top of the ferry can be lifted off for access. Also will install lighting in the rail area of the ship. The module has been started, but progress has been very slow with so many other projects and also working out materials suitable for build,etc. I have scale plans of the ferry which operated from 1960's to 1980's from memory. The newest rail ferry is out of action at present getting referbished, repaired or similar. They have been unloading containers off rail wagons and running them on ship with special container truck trailers with small special built tractor units.

So that would probably be the Aranui or the Aramoana...

 

Or even the freight only Arahunga. Both the Aratika and Arahura were too recent..

 

I think you’ll be avoiding the triple track on the ramp though!

 

😉

[beakaboy]

2 hours ago, AllScales said:

So that would probably be the Aranui or the Aramoana...

 

Or even the freight only Arahunga. Both the Aratika and Arahura were too recent..

 

I think you’ll be avoiding the triple track on the ramp though!

 

😉

It will be the Aramoana. Made a few trips across the straits on her as a young fella.We lived in Blenheim. Definitely avoiding triple track. Haha!

[kvp]

30 minutes ago, beakaboy said:

It will be the Aramoana. Made a few trips across the straits on her as a young fella.We lived in Blenheim. Definitely avoiding triple track. Haha!

That triple gauntlet looks really cool on the photos. It might be functionally approximated with a 3 way switch built into the end of the ship and its pair on the land end of the ramp.

[ConnieCommie]

I'm planning on my Japanese N Scale layout to be a local railway that operates a train ferry.

[EdF]

I don't recall where, but I've seen ships where the tracks at the deck edge are closer together than wagons would fit but they widen pretty quick.  The switch would be dock side only.

[Kiha66]

1 hour ago, ecfitzgerald said:

I don't recall where, but I've seen ships where the tracks at the deck edge are closer together than wagons would fit but they widen pretty quick.  The switch would be dock side only.

 

They actually are closer than loading gauge.  Rail ferries are loaded one lane at a time for balance and stability reasons.  So you don't need the clearance between tracks as there will only be one in use at any given time.  The closer track spacing also allows the stern door to be much smaller than if the tracks were spaced the final distance apart. 

[Welshbloke]

One of the books I have on ferries "Designing Ships for Sealink" includes a section about designing a later Dover-Dunkerque train ferry. The designers, knowing little about minimum curve radii and clearances contacted BR and asked for a suggested track plan. What came back had apparently been drawn for main line speeds rather than the below walking pace of shunting onto the ferry, they were also bemused by the inclusion of sleepers/ties in the drawing as the rails would be fixed to the deck! After some debate everything was tightened up, allowing more rail vehicles to be fitted in.

 

I also have a copy of P. Ransome-Wallis "Train Ferries of Western Europe" (Ian Allan, 1968), a lucky find in a local second hand bookshop for £10. May be worth keeping eyes open for a copy. It's a bit of a time capsule from before many European routes were replaced with a fixed link.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

Japanese Railway ships are an interesting study.

Train ferries were only a small part of the IGR fleet, the others were general passenger-cargo vessels, some up to 8,000 tons .

Sakahalin Island, (Karafuto) north of Hokkaido, had railways , but never had a train ferry service, all the ships on that route were pass-cargo vessels, with strengthened bows for ice breaking. 

Locos and rolling stock for the Sakahalin system would go across as ordinary cargo.

When I was last in Japan, several years ago, there was a Seikan Route ferry preserved at Nagasaki, can't remember the name.

The Kamnon Route ships were only small vessels, the route was a short one, I think that they were double enders.

Could possibly be modelled for a fictitious ferry route.

During the Pacific War, the main duty of the Seikan Route  ferries (Aomori-Hakodate) was to bring train loads of laden coal hoppers from the Hokkaido coal fields to Honshu.

On the 14th. of July, 1945, a large fleet of USN carrier borne aircraft carried out attacks on this route.

By the end of that day, ten of the train ferries had either been sunk or driven ashore in a damaged condition.

One ferry, the No.1 Seikan Maru. escaped to a nearby bay, but on the next day this vessel was also sunk by air attack.

All that was left of the Seikan fleet were No.7 and No. 8 Seikan Marus.

What effect this disaster had on the Japanese war effort is hard to say, the dropping of the atomic bombs shortly afterwards was conclusive.

Getting back to more peaceful times, the funnel markings of the pre-war ferries were of interest,

Their funnels were buff, with the usual black top and a red Kanji on the buff.

This Kanji looked like an I beam, and indicates 'engineering'.

Why 'engineering'?

Because, at that time, the IGR was part of the Ministry of Engineering!

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

 

[marknewton]

The IJGR shamon was used on locos and cars as well.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 Mark.

[kvp]

Did JGR or JNR ever use train barges? These open deck usually double ended ferries (normally moved by a tug, but some were self propelled) were once really popular around the world and some of them are still in use even on sea routes.

 

I'm asking as a train barge is a smaller, space saving alternative to a multideck ferry and could even be built as part of a casette system for changing trains.

[Kiha66]

JGR used them very early on on the honshu to shikoku route.  Fairly quickly they were supplemented by the early ferries with paddle wheels which were essentially a powered barge with a small wheelhouse above deck.  As far as I can tell all Japanese rail ferries were single ended, the Shikoku ferries had the loading point in the front while the open water ones loaded via the rear (excluding the short time exUSN landing ship tanks were used post war).

Edited November 25, 2018 by Kiha66