Containers for Kato H0 Koki?

[GDorsett]

Since I have a growing fleet, I need something other than just a a (few) truck loads of 19Ds. I'm working on module to take to my club so I can hove somewhere to store cars and containers, but they still seem...bland with that many. I've heard elsewhere that the Tomix HO containers don't fit the Kato Koki, but Kato doesn't make extra containers that I can find. Do they fit? Should I break out a few tubes of superglue? Or does Kato actually have more containers?

[cteno4]

Garrett,

 

try Museum putty/gel (gel that is tacky to stick things in place) if they dont stick with tabs. Blue tack (cheap stuff at most hardware stores) has not seemed to cause any oily residue on container paint with short use, but to be careful you can get museum gel which is clear and leaves no residue.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ready-America-33111-Museum-Clear/dp/B0002V37XY/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

a little bit on the tabs may do it and be out of site. We put little bits on the bottom inside corners on n scale containers to stack them up I. The yards when the layout is outside in the wind.

 

On n scale I’ve also gotten some loose combos of containers and kokis to lock in enough to run by putting a slip of blue tape over the tabs in a pinch at shows.

 

jeff

 

 

[keiichi77]

9 hours ago, GDorsett said:

 I've heard elsewhere that the Tomix HO containers don't fit the Kato Koki, but Kato doesn't make extra containers that I can find. Do they fit? Should I break out a few tubes of superglue? Or does Kato actually have more containers?

 

You could always modify the Tomix containers to fit Kato Koki, but out of the box the two brands are not interchangeable like they are in N scale.  As for the 18D and 19D containers, unfortunately they are the only HO containers offered by Kato. This is the main reason why I own 4 Kato Koki and 9 Tomix Koki in HO.

[GDorsett]

What needs to be modified for them to fit on the Kato cars?

I would get some Tomix cars, but I really like the spinning bearing hubs...and that they look almost as good as the Scaletrains cars that someone else has in the club for just that fact, spinning bearing hubs...

I'd like to avoid gluing them on, if possible. Will probably use Cteno's idea if they'll lay flat.

Edited October 10, 2018 by GDorsett

[keiichi77]

1 minute ago, GDorsett said:

What needs to be modified for them to fit on the Kato cars?

I would get some Tomix cars, but I really like the spinning bearing hubs...and that they look almost as good as the Scaletrains cars that someone else has in the club for just that fact, spinning bearing hubs...

 I will have to get back to you in a couple days, my HO stock is packed away right now but I didn't look that difficult when I first looked at the idea several months ago.   You could also try and track down these and swap out the Tomix  bogies for Kato ones. Although not  the exact bogie type for the Tomix cars who would really notice anyway 😉

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10151588

[GDorsett]

Yeah, but how expensive are the Tomix units versus the Kato ones? My go-to shop (Plazajapan) doesn't seem to have them.

[keiichi77]

The Tomix cars are usually sold without containers, they range from $21 to $26US per car depending on where you find them. 

Hobbysearch has Koki 106 in stock https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10070349

AmiAmi shows no stock on any HO Koki

Model Trains Plus shows some Tomix Koki still in stock https://www.modeltrainplus.net/collections/ho-scale-freight-cars-new

 

When you compare Kato to Tomix the Kato Koki are a far better deal, you get two fully loaded cars for $56-65US.

With Tomix your looking at $25 for each car ($50) plus 2 to 3 packages of containers (about $20 to 30 a package) , depending on what containers you choose to fill those 2 cars. In the end two fully loaded Tomix cars would cost over $110US.  But that being said the Tomix cars are well detailed (minus the moving bearing caps) and have a variety of containers to fill them. Tomix also has an HO Koki with LED tail lights installed, but that one is about $40 with no containers. 

 

[GDorsett]

Oh dear, that's pricey...especially after not buying Walthers coaches for being $80 a piece, I don't think I can do $110 a car. That's too much.

[keiichi77]

That would be $110 for two loaded Tomix cars verses Kato's $56-65 for two loaded cars. Still expensive compared to the Kato but lots of container options. I will dig mine out is a couple days and post a picture.

 

[Kamome]

Yes the Kato KoKi 104s have a pretty unique way of attaching containers.

As mentioned Tomix do have a good selection of containers (when you can find them)

 

I also have some pewter and plastic container kits from Morita Co. The JOT 22T6 containers to be exact. They fit the Tomix Kokis but it states to file down the attachment clips if you’re attaching them to Kato Kokis. Certainly if you want some decent variety, take a look at the website.

http://www.morita-inc.co.jp/lineup/ho_container/index.shtml

 

I spoke with Shun Morita san at this years JAM in Tokyo. He’s a hugely helpful chap who speaks fantastic English and the containers look very impressive once built.

 

You could easily adapt Kato Kokis to fit Tomix containers but they would need to be a more permanent load. The removed 19Ds could be used in a yard as they’re usually full of JRF 19s.

 

The other minor thing I prefer about the Kato Kokis, in addition to the rotating hubs, is they don’t bend. The Tomix ones have a bit of flex in them which I find can sometimes affect coupler alignment with kadees.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Kamome

[GDorsett]

So Morita containers also "fit"?

 

I only have Kadees on four of my cars as I have a sagging issue. The plastic Kato knuckles I think look better and fit a LOT better. I shimmed one Kadee, but eh. The Katos are also easier to weather.

[Kamome]

Generally I found the kadees fit the Kato better than the Tomix but I did need some grey washers to stop the couplers from sagging (0.010”) The coupler level is spot on with the Kadee coupler gauge as Kato also distribute Kadee in Japan, be it a limited selection.

 

I prefer the distance between cars with medium shank Kadee couplers as I find the Tomix ones especially long. The Kato standard couplers aren’t too bad.

 

Tomix Kokis need an underset shank coupler such as #147s

 

All containers (Morita/Tomix) technically fit as they are all modeled to 1:80 but you will need to glue these to Kato KoKi 104s as well as file down the couple attachments.

 

This is stated in the Morita instructions for both Kato and Endo Koki models.

 

 

[GDorsett]

Ah.

How is the pricing on Morita containers and are they decent models?

[keiichi77]

Here are the differences between the Kato and Tomix containers. You will have to forgive the images, unless there is lots of light the ipod takes terrible pictures.

 

Kato containers mount on the Kato Koki by the center clip in the middle of the container, Kato Koki also have clips on the deck of the car which line up with the clips on the container.

 

Tomix containers do not have this clip just a hole to accept the clip that you install on the Tomix Koki, the Tomix Koki cars come with 3 different size clips that you have to install, one size is for small containers, one for large containers and the last is for running the car empty. With the Tomix system the clips are the same colour of the Koki car (which is prototypical), with the Kato methood the clips are the same colour of the container which isn't correct but most people wouldn't notice or care anyway.

 

 

Here is my blurry fleet of HO Koki

 

 

[keiichi77]

1 hour ago, GDorsett said:

Ah.

How is the pricing on Morita containers and are they decent models?

I find them pricey, usually $30 or more for a single container, but they offer containers not offered by Tomix or Kato. Also they are kits and I have to many projects on the go to want to start another one, maybe someday but not anytime soon. 😉

[GDorsett]

As "kits", are they unpainted bits of plastic or are they painted and you need to put on decals, or are they pretty much ready to go, you just have to assemble them?

And would you suggest them over Tomix units?

[GDorsett]

Your fleet definitely has more variation than mine...

This is my entire freight pool. Kinda bland right now.

 

If I had pictures, I'd share but this is what I've got for now.

Started weathering the WaMus and never finished them. Did one KoKi and it turned out well, but I'd like to swap out the containers before I go too much further into it.

Edited October 11, 2018 by GDorsett

[Kamome]

7 hours ago, GDorsett said:

As "kits", are they unpainted bits of plastic or are they painted and you need to put on decals, or are they pretty much ready to go, you just have to assemble them?

The Morita kits are a combination of plastic, white metal (pewter), brass and photo-etched metal parts. The combination differs depending on the kit. I saw the kit of the Runtec UF42As and each container side is a separate brass piece that needs soldering or glueing together. There is exceptional relief detail on these.

 

The JOT 22T6 kit has plastic parts for the tank, pewter for the outer frame and additional details, photo-etch for the tread plate and tank supports and some metal wire for the tank hoses. They come unpainted, unbuilt with a wet slide decal sheet and reasonably comprehensive instructions. 

 

The detail of these kits is very good so if you’re looking for a high level of detail, they’re worth the money, be it twice as expensive than the Tomix (out of the box) options.

 

It really depends on which aspects of the hobby you enjoy which is why the forum opinions vary greatly. For me, I like the kit building, detailing and weathering of models and the running of trains is a nice added bonus. My Uncle has British O gauge and his enjoyment comes from the engineering of track and building his own pointwork. Sounds tedious to me.

 

If you’re looking for beautifully detailed containers and some unusual variety, certainly give Morita some consideration. If you just want some simple to add variety, look at Tomix.

 

I am considering a few of the KoKi detailing parts that Morita produce just to add some extra interest.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Kamome