Cutting and working with styrene?

[gavino200]

I've recently started working with styrene for the first time. It's soft and easy to cut with a knife. But when working on very small parts, it's difficult to make accurate and precise cuts, due to such problems as blade kerf, compass point/graphite width, parallax etc. What would be bridgeable error on a larger scale becomes highly significant at n scale. I'm wondering if anyone knows of any techniques or devices that could be helpful. Is the such a thing as a styrene cutter with build-in calipers?

 

These are my main issues so far

 

 

Problem 1. Cutting small circle radius parts.

 

My technique: I used a divider (compass with two metal points and no graphite) to scratch the circle outline. Then I rubbed over that with pencil so I could see the line. Lastly I tried to cut it out with a hobby knife. It's very hard to cut a smooth arc at that size, even with loupes. I got the final curve by filing with a curved micro file. But its' not very precise or predictable. 

 

There's got to be a better way. I have a compass cutter (hobby knife on a compass - see below)  that I've never really used. In this case the minimum possible radius is to big. But the concept is a winner. Will look for a smaller one. Also good would be some kind of hole punch set. I'll look for one.

 

Problem 2. Cutting styrene in general in these dimensions.

 

The with of many marking and  cutting devices is very significant as a proportion of total size.

 

My technique: I used a caliper to set the length and then set the divider to the caliper length. Then I used the divider to score the styrene. Then I made a score with a hobby knife at the divider score. Next I used a pencil to rub over the knife score, so as to make it visible. Then lastly I cut carefully along the line with the hobby knife under loupe magnification. This is tedious but works for straight lines.

 

But I wonder if there are better methods or helpful devices.

 

[cteno4]

Doing tiny bits in stryene can be tough.

 

for small circles I usually look for small jewelry and sequins I’ve collected to see if I have something premade. Nother way is to use punches. For small stuff you can use hand paper and metal punches on thin styrenes or heavy papers or thin chipboards. Hammer punches can also work to get small circles.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Neiko-02612A-Multi-Purpose-Power-Punch/dp/B0002T87CW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1534574140&sr=8-4&keywords=Neiko+Punch+set

 

https://smile.amazon.com/IRISFLY-10pcs-Leather-Hollow-Gasket/dp/B01L9CTMWE/ref=sr_1_14_sspa?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1534574295&sr=1-14-spons&keywords=Hole+punch&psc=1

 

Lastly you can also cut off bits of solid styrene rod. This can be hard to do and get a clean right angle cut and you may need to file the cuts flat/square

 

For working with strip, rod, tubing etc stryene stock this is the got tool, the chopit. Gives great results.

 

https://www.micromark.com/Chop-It

 

or the chopper II which braces the blade a bit more than the chip-it (but you can add a side brace to the chop-it out of a hunk of brass strip stock)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Northwest-Short-Line-Chopper-II/dp/B004P3SRI0/ref=asc_df_B004P3SRI0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198094063648&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2858767524453939844&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007770&hvtargid=pla-318359021936&psc=1

 

When things get small I turn to cardstocks and chipbards as they are easier to cut cleanly than stryene and you don’t need the density/strength of stryene when getting tiny. You can always drop some ca glue on it to harden it more if needed.

 

i always Try to start from a strip, rod, tube, beam, channel, angles, etc extruded stryene stock first and see if I can get the bit need. I’ve found it worth the investment to have most of the evergreen strip stocks around the sizes usually used at home, makes it easy to just grab something and snip off some tests to try quickly. Most of them I’ve used less than 5% of over the years, but so handy to just have the ones to try at hand. It’s my contribution to keeping my LHS open buying a few more strips every time I wander by.

 

and example I wanted to make some insulated fish boxes for the Tomytec fish warehouse. These are like 2’x4’x3’ and have skids underneath for forklifts. Turns out rectangular tubing was perfect and the a piece of shallow H stock for the box bottom with the ends poking out for the skids. Bit of strip stock for the top lid. Done.

 

one last tool is this little guy for larger styrene stock chop off is this little guy. Baby’s first chop saw

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini-bench-top-cut-off-saw-62136.html

 

cuts with a tad of burring that can be cleaned up easily. You can also get abrasive discs for this machine to cut brass stock as well.

 

Cheers,

 

jeff

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Also handy for strip cutting and making multiple bits

 

https://www.micromark.com/Duplicate-It

 

jeff

[maihama eki]

I have punched small discs in thin material with this guy:

https://www.micromark.com/Micro-Punch-Set

 

They make a larger one as well, intended for thicker materials:

https://www.micromark.com/Precision-Disk-Punch-Set

 

I have a bunch of paper punches in various sizes for cutting discs as well.  I use them a lot for cutting masking tape for masking wheels and other round things.

 

I also have a couple of Olfa circle cutters in a couple of sizes for larger circles.

 

Finally, a laser cutter is also quite nice.  I don't have my own, but I have sent files to Ponoko for cutting.  They offer a variety of materials.

[gavino200]

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Doing tiny bits in stryene can be tough.

 

for small circles I usually look for small jewelry and sequins I’ve collected to see if I have something premade. Nother way is to use punches. For small stuff you can use hand paper and metal punches on thin styrenes or heavy papers or thin chipboards. Hammer punches can also work to get small circles.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Neiko-02612A-Multi-Purpose-Power-Punch/dp/B0002T87CW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1534574140&sr=8-4&keywords=Neiko+Punch+set

 

This is an interesting product. Not what I need right now. I need to cut only part of a circle. A fixed radius part of a complex shape. I don't actually need a disc.

 

 

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/IRISFLY-10pcs-Leather-Hollow-Gasket/dp/B01L9CTMWE/ref=sr_1_14_sspa?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1534574295&sr=1-14-spons&keywords=Hole+punch&psc=1

 

This is perfect. I ordered it.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

or the chopper II which braces the blade a bit more than the chip-it (but you can add a side brace to the chop-it out of a hunk of brass strip stock)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Northwest-Short-Line-Chopper-II/dp/B004P3SRI0/ref=asc_df_B004P3SRI0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198094063648&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2858767524453939844&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007770&hvtargid=pla-318359021936&psc=1

 

When things get small I turn to cardstocks and chipbards as they are easier to cut cleanly than stryene and you don’t need the density/strength of stryene when getting tiny. You can always drop some ca glue on it to harden it more if needed.

 

i always Try to start from a strip, rod, tube, beam, channel, angles, etc extruded stryene stock first and see if I can get the bit need. I’ve found it worth the investment to have most of the evergreen strip stocks around the sizes usually used at home, makes it easy to just grab something and snip off some tests to try quickly. Most of them I’ve used less than 5% of over the years, but so handy to just have the ones to try at hand. It’s my contribution to keeping my LHS open buying a few more strips every time I wander by.

 

and example I wanted to make some insulated fish boxes for the Tomytec fish warehouse. These are like 2’x4’x3’ and have skids underneath for forklifts. Turns out rectangular tubing was perfect and the a piece of shallow H stock for the box bottom with the ends poking out for the skids. Bit of strip stock for the top lid. Done.

 

I really like these products. I'm going to research these a little further and make a choice. I'm ok with the investment as I know I'll be doing a good bit more of this kind of work. I love it.

 

6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

one last tool is this little guy for larger styrene stock chop off is this little guy. Baby’s first chop saw

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini-bench-top-cut-off-saw-62136.html

 

cuts with a tad of burring that can be cleaned up easily. You can also get abrasive discs for this machine to cut brass stock as well.

 

 

 

I don't fully understand what this is. But I'll research it.

[gavino200]

6 hours ago, maihama eki said:

I have punched small discs in thin material with this guy:

https://www.micromark.com/Micro-Punch-Set

 

They make a larger one as well, intended for thicker materials:

https://www.micromark.com/Precision-Disk-Punch-Set

 

I have a bunch of paper punches in various sizes for cutting discs as well.  I use them a lot for cutting masking tape for masking wheels and other round things.

 

I also have a couple of Olfa circle cutters in a couple of sizes for larger circles.

 

Thanks. I like these products. They're not what I need right now on this project. I need a partial circumference curve as part of a complex shape. But I'm sure I'll need something like this in future. I bookmarked them.

 

6 hours ago, maihama eki said:

 

Finally, a laser cutter is also quite nice.  I don't have my own, but I have sent files to Ponoko for cutting.  They offer a variety of materials.

 

Thanks! I didn't know you could do that. I'll look into it.

[cteno4]

Other option is to Frankenstein the piece. Cut a circle out with a punch and chop off the bit needed and glue to other shape. The fill with putty and sand smooth.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

3 hours ago, gavino200 said:

I don't fully understand what this is. But I'll research it.

 

It’s just a mini circular chop Saw to chop strip stock off. Helps with thicker pieces where something like the chopper may have the blade bend a bit while going thru giving you an un-perpendicular cut. Also handy cutting brass stock off like tunings that are handy for modeling as it’s much thinner walled.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

2 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Other option is to Frankenstein the piece. Cut a circle out with a punch and chop off the bit needed and glue to other shape. The fill with putty and sand smooth.

 

jeff

 

It's a quarter circle indentation. You can see it in the Black Beetle tread.

Edited August 18, 2018 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Look at chopping it out with a punch.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

Look at chopping it out with a punch.

 

jeff

 

Yes, that's what I'm hoping to do. I ordered the punch set last night. I'm thinking of getting a "chop-it". I think I saw that a few days ago at the local Blick art store. I don't remember the price but I remember thinking it was a bit costy. I didn't know I had a need for it at the time. If the price isn't too much more I think I'll get it as I'd like to use it today.

 

I'm also thinking about ordering this.

 

https://www.micromark.com/Duplicate-It

 

And this. I'm sick of ruining metal rulers and squares.

 

https://www.micromark.com/Straight-Edge-6-Inches-Long

Edited August 18, 2018 by gavino200

[gavino200]

Blick had an the exact same product as the Chop-it, with a different name at almost twice the price. 

 

I ordered the Chopit, and the duplicated-it. I'm sure they'll be useful.

 

Looking closer at this product below, I think it will be good for scoring, but it may not work to indent. It's designed to make a precise cot of inside cut. It looks like it would be pretty traumatic to the styrene on the outside. No regrets about ordering it though. I'm just I will have a use for this.

 

https://www.micromark.com/Micro-Punch-Set

 

Anyone think it would be possible to make a round indentation into styrene with this without chewing up the edges?

 

Seems like what I'd need would be something like tiny circular razor blade like die punches.

Edited August 18, 2018 by gavino200

[gavino200]

The article at the bottom of this link (below) shares an interesting technique which is to use the die punch set as a drill guide. That way, you obliterate the material inside the circle, but create a nice circle arc edge on the outside ie. a perfect indentation. 

 

http://ontheslipway.com/?cat=6

 

This is the text:

 

"Drilling with the Punch & Die set

 

Another small tip with a Punch & Die set. It can be used as an alternative for drilling, which is near impossible for the part below. The problem is always aligning the part with the set so that the punch is properly centered, but that can be easily solved. This series of pictures shows the in-progress platform of HMS Hood’s type 279 radar antenna. The platform is very small and is to be fitted to the mast. But as it is very small, it will show when it is off center making proper alignment more important. I use the Punch & Die set to punch off a part leaving the end of the platform circular, making it easier to position and glue to the mast. In stead of making a lot of platforms and keeping the one which worked out best, you can also first glue a disk (or rod) at the exact location where you want to punch out excess material. With styrene parts, you have some time before the glue sets and shift the disk to its proper location (top right). You can then—after the glue has set—use the disk to position the part with respect to the set simply by putting it in the correct hole. Just tap the punch gently and the part is done.

I use this trick quite often as it is easy to use and accurate. Drilling very small parts isn’t always possible, as you don’t have any space to hold them fast and they often tear when using larger drills. Very small parts can be destroyed during the punching as well, but less often than with drilling."

Edited August 18, 2018 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Another approach is to use a good set of brad point drill bits, they work well for cutting out semicircles. you need to clamp the stock down well on the drill press and then the drill out the bit. Can help to put another piece up against the edge you are cutting to make it an even surface.

 

good brad point drill bits have a small cutter blade on the edge of the bit tips that cut the outer edge cleanly. they are really handy and its the one set of bits i spend a lot on as they really cut super well.

 

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&p=42247&cat=1,180

 

a small drill press i think at some point here you are going to find is a great shop tool!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[kvp]

Is there a simple way to cut out windows consistently on a building? Possibly in one go without lots of filing...

[cteno4]

9 hours ago, kvp said:

Is there a simple way to cut out windows consistently on a building? Possibly in one go without lots of filing...

 

A laser cutter or a 2d knife cutter! 😜 

 

Yep cutting out windows seems to have no easy solution. It’s tedious work. Nibbler works ok, but only works on thin stock and requires as much attention as cutting with a knife and still needs cleanup. Mortisors are a bit too big for n scale and again would require a lot of fiddling to get good alignment. I have a rather sharp small corner chisel for hinge insets that I experimented once with stryene but it did not cut 020 well (have to drill out thencenter first to allow waste space) and again was too big for most n scale windows.

 

Problem with any line of square windows is your eye will see if any are just a bit off from the rest. This has frustrated me since I was a kid how good our eyes are at seeing this, it’s just one of those odd things are brains are trained for (and why I covet a 2d laser cutter! Someday!)

 

This is why using the knife is usually the easiest to get them lined up well. Do the tops and bottoms with the straight edge clamped down so they are all in perfect alignment. Then clamp straight edge along the top and use a small drafting square to do all the verticals so they are all again the same. Still have to go back and carefully finish the corner bits with the knife and then careful filing. Of course keeping the blade constantly perpendicular is a necessity and pain... A jewelers V block can help with the filing to keep things squared up and let you see what you are doing.

 

wish I had an answer! Maybe someone has some magic (other than a 2d cutter)!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gavino200]

10 hours ago, kvp said:

Is there a simple way to cut out windows consistently on a building? Possibly in one go without lots of filing...

 

How about this? Its a "corner punch". They have two different sizes.

 

https://www.micromark.com/3-16-Inch-Corner-Punch

[cteno4]

That’s basically what I have and tried mentioned above (mine is 1/4” for jewelry box hinges, very sharp). Tends to mash a bit on styrene and very hard to get nicely squared up. You need to first drill out then enter of the window before going at the corners. Using a clamped straight edge would help, but still fiddly abs have to potentially do sides some. Still requires some cleanup.

 

Jeff

[cteno4]

Btw a mortiser is basically a square punch chisel with a drill bit filling the center. Basically the machine allows the drill to take out the center of your square hole and the chisel around it chisels out the corners. Unique machines and work well on wood to make nice square tenon and mortise joints. Basically the same thing as cutting a window... 

 

corner chisel in a drill press to use as an arbor press helps line up things some with the fence if you have a parallel edge on your piece to work off of.

 

jeff

[kvp]

Thanks! I'll have to try and get some of these. The best would be a variable tool that you can set various rectangle sizes (a/b lengths) and puch in one go, but using corners and punching 4 times while aligned could also work. I'm using at most 1 mm thick styrene, so it's probably punchable.

[cteno4]

4 minutes ago, kvp said:

The best would be a variable tool that you can set various rectangle sizes (a/b lengths)

 

Thats a laser cutter! 😜

 

jeff

[gavino200]

8 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

Thats a laser cutter! 😜

 

jeff

 

You really should get one, Jeff.

[cteno4]

Actually I first need to play a lot more with my silhouette cutter as it can do cardstocks well and do most of what I really “need” probably! Just not the time to really get much done on making my own structures lately, so until I have that time I’ll wait for the laser cutter! They just keep getting cheaper, but not as fast as 3D printers! At least the cad work is much faster and easier to deal with on 2d stuff and I enjoy thinking more of cutting out and assembling 2d parts than just drawing it all in 3D.

 

But laser cutter would be another use for the dryer hose vent connection I installed last fall!

 

the silhouette really is a nice cutter. Works well on the nice cardstocks you can get and then just layer up some. They go on sale on amazon fairly often.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Silhouette-SILHOUETTE-CAMEO-3-4T-Wireless-Cutting-Machine/dp/B01I51ME1S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1534711227&sr=8-3&keywords=silhouette+cameo+3

 

toni did some very nice little structures with his.

 

wont really cut styrene well. You can get after marker blade holders for various vinyl cutting blades.

 

Jeff 

[gavino200]

3 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

But laser cutter would be another use for the dryer hose vent connection I installed last fall!

 

 

Exactly! You're all set up for it! Besides the prices have probably plateaued. 

[cteno4]

Trying to be a tool pusher now?! I guess turn about is fair play!

 

cheers

 

jeff